Big Ten Expansion

[Guest DT]

I was watching the BTN the other day, and the discussion centered around the likelihood of BT expansion should the conference be once again left out of the National Playoff.

Let's assume BT is once again left out, and the new commissioner decides to go the expansion route to 16.  This would likely force the disbanding of The Big 12, with 4 super conferences of 16 teams in two 8 team divisions.

Jim Delaney was hot after North Carolina, but he is now retiring.  Is UNC still a BT target

What about Texas and Oklahoma?  The Pac 12 surely will go after 4 Big 12 schools to get to 16.  Will the SEC go after FSU and Clemson?     What about Notre Dame

How does it all shake out?

 

 

 

 

 

[DumfriesYMCA]

I personally would like to see 
 

acc get Rutgers Maryland West Virginia South Carolina 

acc lose Louisville Georgia tech 

b10 lose Rutgers Maryland 

b10 get Notre Dame Louisville 

sec get Georgia tech 

sec lose South Carolina 

b12 get BYU Houston Memphis 
b12 lose West Virginia 

 

[Guest DT]

TX/TCU/TTECH/Baylor to the Pac 12   Pac 12 at 16

OU/OSU to the SEC                                   SEC at 16

Kansas / KSU to Big Ten                                  Big Ten at 16

WV / CT to ACC                                          ACC at 16

These are your Power 4 Conferences

Big 12 is disolved

Iowa State to American Athletic

Notre Dame and BYU Independent

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by DT

[Gipper]

33 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I personally would like to see 
 

acc get Rutgers Maryland West Virginia South Carolina 

acc lose Louisville Georgia tech 

b10 lose Rutgers Maryland 

b10 get Notre Dame Louisville 

sec get Georgia tech 

sec lose South Carolina 

b12 get BYU Houston Memphis 
b12 lose West Virginia 

 

All great ideas.  I don't see the Domers in the B1G, though.  I'd take Mizzou in a heartbeat who has no business in the SEC, just like WV in the Big 12, but I don't want those dummies...

[Gipper]

I also wouldn't mind Kansas, but not necessarily Kansas State.

[DumfriesYMCA]

Ya know. We wouldn’t even have to worry about this if they would expand playoffs

 

8 teams

5 conference champions from the Power 5. 3 wild cards 

[Gipper]

38 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Ya know. We wouldn’t even have to worry about this if they would expand playoffs

 

8 teams

5 conference champions from the Power 5. 3 wild cards 

Blind draw?

[itiswhatitis]

I wouldn't take Kansas or Kansas State.  I'd think about bringing in Oklahoma and Texas though.  Just the thought of getting more recruits from Texas sounds really good.  And then Nebraska and Oklahoma could be hooked up again for their rivalry.

[Guest DT]

32 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I wouldn't take Kansas or Kansas State.  I'd think about bringing in Oklahoma and Texas though.  Just the thought of getting more recruits from Texas sounds really good.  And then Nebraska and Oklahoma could be hooked up again for their rivalry.

Big Ten doesnt need another historical power like TX or Oklahoma.  The PAC 12 is hurting, and the addition of the Texas schools will help bolster their football status as a conference and improve recruiting for the entire league.

Kansas is more of a basketball move for the Big Ten.  Huge pickup.  And KState football is solid.  

[Gipper]

Texas is very appealing, but will they give up their own channel for the BTN?

[Guest DT]

6 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Texas is very appealing, but will they give up their own channel for the BTN?

I think Texas would really upset the Midwest culture of the Big Ten.  I hope that doesn't happen.  

[itiswhatitis]

32 minutes ago, DT said:

I think Texas would really upset the Midwest culture of the Big Ten.  I hope that doesn't happen.  

But if we're talking "super" conferences and football, I'd add Oklahoma and Texas.  Kansas is a football doormat and K State only shows up every few years.  The B1G added Rutgers and Maryland for the audience and some recruiting.  They aren't Midwest and neither is Penn State for that matter.  Adding Texas and Oklahoma would do wonders for the recruiting not to mention strengthening the conference.  In a super conference, there will usually be a couple who aren't going to fit the mold of what may be considered a geographic "culture".  Notre Dame was offered to join and refused for whatever reasons.  Missouri might be a consideration to fit the "Midwest" flavor, but they are up and down.  And I disagree the B1G doesn't need another historical power.  If it's going to be 4 super conferences, then YES they need another one (or two) power programs.  So are we just supposed to sit back and let the SEC continue to win everything in football?  That wouldn't be too smart would it?   If I have the chance to add a Texas or an Oklahoma, I'm in.  Why let them walk away to one of the other conferences and lose out?  Kansas for basketball?  Let them go to the ACC.  Clemson football could use another cupcake on their schedule.

Edited October 24, 2019 by itiswhatitis

[Gipper]

Texas and Oklahoma offer more stability than UMD and Rutgers can ever hope to.  We need fish like that.   But let's all admit the BTN has entered the NYC and Washington, DC TV markets...

[Bobref]

I’m on record as advocating ND for full membership in the ACC, but I’d be content to see them in the B1G. I just want them in a Power 5 conference so, when the time comes, they can have a conference championship game on their resume for playoff qualifying purposes. The problem is that the B1G plays 9 conference games (plus the conference championship game). If they expand to 16, they’re certainly not going to play fewer. That leaves 3 non-conference games which, for the Irish, means they only get 1 “discretionary” game, since they will always play Navy and USC. 

Because of their academic restrictions, ND needs to have a truly national recruiting base. Historically, they have filled this need by playing games around the country, to show the flag on a national basis. So, unless the B1G eliminates “crossover” games between East and West, it would be very difficult.
 

 

[Guest DT]

38 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’m on record as advocating ND for full membership in the ACC, but I’d be content to see them in the B1G. I just want them in a Power 5 conference so, when the time comes, they can have a conference championship game on their resume for playoff qualifying purposes. The problem is that the B1G plays 9 conference games (plus the conference championship game). If they expand to 16, they’re certainly not going to play fewer. That leaves 3 non-conference games which, for the Irish, means they only get 1 “discretionary” game, since they will always play Navy and USC. 

Because of their academic restrictions, ND needs to have a truly national recruiting base. Historically, they have filled this need by playing games around the country, to show the flag on a national basis. So, unless the B1G eliminates “crossover” games between East and West, it would be very difficult.
 

 

ND likely will have to accept full membership in The ACC.  The Big Ten ship has sailed.  ND will likely need to win a playoff berth thru full ACC membership or go indy and need to go 12-0 every year to get in.

ND also could be facing some pressure.  If the the direction moves towards 4 major conferences at 16 each, ND is not guaranteed a seat at the table.  Schools will be rushing to get a slot, and someone will be left out.  

[Guest DT]

1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said:

But if we're talking "super" conferences and football, I'd add Oklahoma and Texas.  Kansas is a football doormat and K State only shows up every few years.  The B1G added Rutgers and Maryland for the audience and some recruiting.  They aren't Midwest and neither is Penn State for that matter.  Adding Texas and Oklahoma would do wonders for the recruiting not to mention strengthening the conference.  In a super conference, there will usually be a couple who aren't going to fit the mold of what may be considered a geographic "culture".  Notre Dame was offered to join and refused for whatever reasons.  Missouri might be a consideration to fit the "Midwest" flavor, but they are up and down.  And I disagree the B1G doesn't need another historical power.  If it's going to be 4 super conferences, then YES they need another one (or two) power programs.  So are we just supposed to sit back and let the SEC continue to win everything in football?  That wouldn't be too smart would it?   If I have the chance to add a Texas or an Oklahoma, I'm in.  Why let them walk away to one of the other conferences and lose out?  Kansas for basketball?  Let them go to the ACC.  Clemson football could use another cupcake on their schedule.

Ohio State 

Penn State

Nebraska

Michigan

Wisconsin

Oklahoma

Texas

Nebraska

Michigan State

 

Sorry, but that's a little too top heavy for the BT.  Im an IU guy, and that would kill any remaiing chance we have for moving up in the conference.  

Edited October 24, 2019 by DT

[itiswhatitis]

10 minutes ago, DT said:

Ohio State 

Penn State

Nebraska

Michigan

Wisconsin

Oklahoma

Texas

Nebraska

Michigan State

 

Sorry, but that's a little too top heavy for the BT.  Im an IU guy, and that would kill any remaiing chance we have for moving up in the conference.  

I get what you're saying but think outside the box for a second.  With 16 teams they could divide the conference up into four 4 team divisions instead of two divisions with 8 teams.  That would give teams like an IU more of a chance to win a division banner and then make the conference championship.  They would probably have to go to a 14 game season with the last 2 games being the conference playoffs (all 4 division winners get in).   I've never made it a secret that I am a first and foremost a Buckeye fan.  I was born there and didn't leave until I was 23, so the Buckeyes are in my blood.  However, I have also become an IU fan since I retired here from the Navy in 1995.   I have now probably attended as many IU games as I have Ohio State games over the years.  As I mentioned earlier in a post, Michigan, Nebraska, and even Penn State need to get back in the National spotlight.  The B1G has been carried by Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin for the past several years and mostly by Ohio State as far as being in the playoffs.   I believe it would be beneficial for the conference to bring in more firepower.   I am also a B1G fan.  I want the conference to do well.   

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I get what you're saying but think outside the box for a second.  With 16 teams they could divide the conference up into four 4 team divisions instead of two divisions with 8 teams.  That would give teams like an IU more of a chance to win a division banner and then make the conference championship.  They would probably have to go to a 14 game season with the last 2 games being the conference playoffs (all 4 division winners get in).   I've never made it a secret that I am a first and foremost a Buckeye fan.  I was born there and didn't leave until I was 23, so the Buckeyes are in my blood.  However, I have also become an IU fan since I retired here from the Navy in 1995.   I have now probably attended as many IU games as I have Ohio State games over the years.  As I mentioned earlier in a post, Michigan, Nebraska, and even Penn State need to get back in the National spotlight.  The B1G has been carried by Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin for the past several years and mostly by Ohio State as far as being in the playoffs.   I believe it would be beneficial for the conference to bring in more firepower.   I am also a B1G fan.  I want the conference to do well.   

I also think that that is just too much power concentrated in one conference in terms of marketing and television viewers.  Look at all the schools that are eliminated as only one can emerge to go to the playoff.  

I love Big Ten football and I think the conference is very solid.  Its in the BT interests for the lower tier schools to rise and become more competitive.  Adding two powerhouse schools like OU and TX just pushes them further down the ladder.

 

[itiswhatitis]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I’m on record as advocating ND for full membership in the ACC, but I’d be content to see them in the B1G. I just want them in a Power 5 conference so, when the time comes, they can have a conference championship game on their resume for playoff qualifying purposes. The problem is that the B1G plays 9 conference games (plus the conference championship game). If they expand to 16, they’re certainly not going to play fewer. That leaves 3 non-conference games which, for the Irish, means they only get 1 “discretionary” game, since they will always play Navy and USC. 

Because of their academic restrictions, ND needs to have a truly national recruiting base. Historically, they have filled this need by playing games around the country, to show the flag on a national basis. So, unless the B1G eliminates “crossover” games between East and West, it would be very difficult.
 

 

I was hoping to see the Irish in the B1G one day.  I get there are reasons why they didn't.  Still, I think geographically the B1G would be a much better fit than the ACC.  I know historically the Irish have played the service academies and also USC.  Maybe since it's a new millennium, they should start thinking of revamping their schedule.  They play Michigan now so why not just make it a conference game?  I'd love to see the Irish play Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State, etc every year instead of in a bowl game occasionally.  I saw Notre Dame play at Miami back in the 80's.  It was electric.  Can you imagine them playing teams like that almost every week?  My wife is a big Irish fan and even she thinks it's time to get rid of some of the old "rivalries" that Notre Dame continues to play.  At any rate, having them join the B1G would be a huge boost to the conference with another storied program and give the Irish a chance every year at the national playoffs.  Win, win.

[itiswhatitis]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

I also think that that is just too much power concentrated in one conference in terms of marketing and television viewers.  Look at all the schools that are eliminated as only one can emerge to go to the playoff.  

I love Big Ten football and I think the conference is very solid.  Its in the BT interests for the lower tier schools to rise and become more competitive.  Adding two powerhouse schools like OU and TX just pushes them further down the ladder.

 

Not if the big dogs would be scattered across four divisions.  Look at Illinois.  They just pulled off a huge upset.   How many people saw that coming?  On any given weekend, anyone can beat anyone.  Look at where Minnesota is right now.  It can be done.  Programs have to figure out ways to get better.   If they don't, then they apparently are just accepting their "fate".  Every conference has teams that are not the top of the heap.  If the landscape changes in college football by going to super conferences, then I'd hate to see the B1G get left behind.  IU is on the verge of maybe getting on the track to the top.  Not saying it's this year, but Allen has them going in the right direction.  There are only so many coaches to go around.  Not everyone is going to hire a Nick Saban or an Urban Myer or even find one.  There just aren't that many.  That's why I think Allen is the right guy now for IU.  It's taken a long while, but I think he's the man.  I had hopes with Hep (rest in peace) but we know the sad events that didn't allow him to continue.

[Bobref]

37 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I was hoping to see the Irish in the B1G one day.  I get there are reasons why they didn't.  Still, I think geographically the B1G would be a much better fit than the ACC.  I know historically the Irish have played the service academies and also USC.  Maybe since it's a new millennium, they should start thinking of revamping their schedule.  They play Michigan now so why not just make it a conference game?  I'd love to see the Irish play Ohio State, Wisconsin, Penn State, etc every year instead of in a bowl game occasionally.  I saw Notre Dame play at Miami back in the 80's.  It was electric.  Can you imagine them playing teams like that almost every week?  My wife is a big Irish fan and even she thinks it's time to get rid of some of the old "rivalries" that Notre Dame continues to play.  At any rate, having them join the B1G would be a huge boost to the conference with another storied program and give the Irish a chance every year at the national playoffs.  Win, win.

Notre Dame will never stop playing Navy, that much I can state with absolute confidence. I have explained the reasoning before. But I assure you, if that series ever ends, it will be Navy’s idea, not Notre Dame’s.

[Guest DT]

Im not sure ND would want to run the Big Ten gauntlet every year.  They have always had the luxury of owning their own schedule and managing their travel and level of competition.  The Big Ten owns the conference schedule.  You play where the computer says you are scheduled to play.

The ND brass and alumni consider themselves more Northeast - New York than Midwest - Chicago.  Culturally, the ACC is the better fit.  ND has never been known as an "Indiana school."  Its a national school that happens to be located on the border of Michigan and Indiana.  

Edited October 24, 2019 by DT

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said:

I get what you're saying but think outside the box for a second.  With 16 teams they could divide the conference up into four 4 team divisions instead of two divisions with 8 teams.  That would give teams like an IU more of a chance to win a division banner and then make the conference championship.  They would probably have to go to a 14 game season with the last 2 games being the conference playoffs (all 4 division winners get in).   I've never made it a secret that I am a first and foremost a Buckeye fan.  I was born there and didn't leave until I was 23, so the Buckeyes are in my blood.  However, I have also become an IU fan since I retired here from the Navy in 1995.   I have now probably attended as many IU games as I have Ohio State games over the years.  As I mentioned earlier in a post, Michigan, Nebraska, and even Penn State need to get back in the National spotlight.  The B1G has been carried by Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin for the past several years and mostly by Ohio State as far as being in the playoffs.   I believe it would be beneficial for the conference to bring in more firepower.   I am also a B1G fan.  I want the conference to do well.   

It’s beyond ludicrous to get a football lightweight (with the exception of Vanderbilt). And speaking of the SEC, they are very top heavy, therefore we should beat them at their own game.  Expansion should make the conference  better, not just give IU an easy win.

[Guest DT]

Big Ten North

Nebraska   Wisconsin  Minnesota  Michigan Northwestern  Purdue  Michigan State  Rutgers

Big Ten South

Kansas   Kansas State  Iowa  Illinois  Indiana  Ohio State  Penn State  Maryland  

 

Pac 16 North

Washington  Wash State  Oregon Oregon State  Stanford   Cal   USC   UCLA  (old Pac 😎

Pac 16 South

Colorado  Utah  Arizona  Arizona State   Texas   TCU  Texas Tech   Baylor

 

SEC West

Oklahoma  OK State  Texas A&M  Arkansas  MIssouri  MIssissippi  Mississippi  State  LSU

SEC East

Alabama  Auburn  Kentucky  Tennessee  Georgia  Florida South Carolina Vanderbilt

 

ACC Atlantic

Clemson  Wake  Louisville Boston College  FSU  NC State Syracuse  West Virginia

ACC Coastal

Virginia  Pitt Duke Va Tech  UNC  Ga Tech  Miami  Notre Dame

 

 

 

 

[itiswhatitis]

43 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Notre Dame will never stop playing Navy, that much I can state with absolute confidence. I have explained the reasoning before. But I assure you, if that series ever ends, it will be Navy’s idea, not Notre Dame’s.

I see.  So keep the cupcake instead of playing for a national title?  Not a very good tradeoff is it?  Navy will never beat Notre Dame in this century or the next.  If it's some sort of gentlemen's agreement from the early 1900's, let's forget the past and move forward.  Until Notre Dame joins a conference for ALL sports including football, I see them struggling to get in the football playoffs.  And as a fan of football, I think that would be shame.  But you cant beat city hall.  If city hall says , "we aren't joining a conference", then I guess that is what you have to live with.