363, 362, & 361

[23andCounting]

"364 more days of delusion, excuse making and claims that the true north is “knocking on the door.”

Day 364: See Semi-State Scores thread

Day 363: Carroll returns their QB, and a good one at that. Give Dinan a good QB and they'll always be in the state title conversation. 

Day 362: Something tells me that Pete Riordan is just getting started. If his program improves for the third year in a row, they'll give the HCC a run for their money on the way to Lucas.

Day 361: Crown Point. Craig Buzea. Nothing more to say. 

@temptation The North is on solid ground. I can do this 360 more times if you'd like. 

[Rodney]

28 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

 

@temptation The North is on solid ground. I can do this 360 more times if you'd like. 

Please do

 

Last off season was boring 

 

Tell me how crown point will be a top 5 team next year.

[temptation]

41 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

"364 more days of delusion, excuse making and claims that the true north is “knocking on the door.”

Day 364: See Semi-State Scores thread

Day 363: Carroll returns their QB, and a good one at that. Give Dinan a good QB and they'll always be in the state title conversation. 

Day 362: Something tells me that Pete Riordan is just getting started. If his program improves for the third year in a row, they'll give the HCC a run for their money on the way to Lucas.

Day 361: Crown Point. Craig Buzea. Nothing more to say. 

@temptation The North is on solid ground. I can do this 360 more times if you'd like. 

Please do.

Was Carroll "in the state title conversation" this year in your opinion?

[First_Backer_Inside]

32 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

"364 more days of delusion, excuse making and claims that the true north is “knocking on the door.”

Day 364: See Semi-State Scores thread

Day 363: Carroll returns their QB, and a good one at that. Give Dinan a good QB and they'll always be in the state title conversation. 

Day 362: Something tells me that Pete Riordan is just getting started. If his program improves for the third year in a row, they'll give the HCC a run for their money on the way to Lucas.

Day 361: Crown Point. Craig Buzea. Nothing more to say. 

@temptation The North is on solid ground. I can do this 360 more times if you'd like. 

I think you mentioned @temptation was biased towards the HCC. I think you are a biased towards the true north, just a little bit. I am biased towards neither and could care less about 6A football, so I will clear this up. Based off of history the HCC is better and will continue to be better for a while still. There will not be a state champion from the true north in the next 5 years, probably not even the next 10 years because none of them will play each other or leave their conference to play an independent schedule against the Indy schools all year. I think you mentioned Westfield is a 4 quarter team. This is correct because they have to play 4 quarters all year. This is not the case for the true north teams and their schedule. This is the reason they can compete for a half and then lose at the end of the game and will continue to lose for the years to come unless something is changed. So while he might be biased, temp is also correct, the HCC and other Indy schools in the north are better and will stay better than the true north. This is settled now. If you can do this 360 more times that would be impressive, but it isn't needed.

Sorry for spoiling the off season @Rodney, gonna have to come up with something else to talk about all off season because this is a dead end.

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

I think you mentioned @temptation was biased towards the HCC. I think you are a biased towards the true north, just a little bit. I am biased towards neither and could care less about 6A football, so I will clear this up. Based off of history the HCC is better and will continue to be better for a while still. There will not be a state champion from the true north in the next 5 years, probably not even the next 10 years because none of them will play each other or leave their conference to play an independent schedule against the Indy schools all year. I think you mentioned Westfield is a 4 quarter team. This is correct because they have to play 4 quarters all year. This is not the case for the true north teams and their schedule. This is the reason they can compete for a half and then lose at the end of the game and will continue to lose for the years to come unless something is changed. So while he might be biased, temp is also correct, the HCC and other Indy schools in the north are better and will stay better than the true north. This is settled now. If you can do this 360 more times that would be impressive, but it isn't needed.

Sorry for spoiling the off season @Rodney, gonna have to come up with something else to talk about all off season because this is a dead end.

Mic drop.

[Rodney]

You mean to tell me that playing portage doesn't prepare you for a big game

[Rodney]

What about Laporte or chesterton

[First_Backer_Inside]

Maybe 10 years ago, but if you go 15 you've gone too far

[23andCounting]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Please do.

Was Carroll "in the state title conversation" this year in your opinion?

In the conversation? I think so. As the season went on, I got the feeling they were better than what they were in Week 2. I think Penn and Crown Point were in the conversation as well............big schools, good tradition, and undefeated. Not sure why they wouldn't be.  We all knew all season long that the favorites were Brownsburg and Carmel. Maybe you should have asked, "were they a favorite to win." That would be a "no." 

[23andCounting]

4 hours ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

I think you mentioned @temptation was biased towards the HCC. I think you are a biased towards the true north, just a little bit. I am biased towards neither and could care less about 6A football, so I will clear this up. Based off of history the HCC is better and will continue to be better for a while still. There will not be a state champion from the true north in the next 5 years, probably not even the next 10 years because none of them will play each other or leave their conference to play an independent schedule against the Indy schools all year. I think you mentioned Westfield is a 4 quarter team. This is correct because they have to play 4 quarters all year. This is not the case for the true north teams and their schedule. This is the reason they can compete for a half and then lose at the end of the game and will continue to lose for the years to come unless something is changed. So while he might be biased, temp is also correct, the HCC and other Indy schools in the north are better and will stay better than the true north. This is settled now. If you can do this 360 more times that would be impressive, but it isn't needed.

Sorry for spoiling the off season @Rodney, gonna have to come up with something else to talk about all off season because this is a dead end.

Great post. Thanks for your unbiased input. I only disagree with what I highlighted in bold. That's an opinion, not fact. Though there's a 88% chance that you're correct. 

 

[Justasportsfan]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

Great post. Thanks for your unbiased input. I only disagree with what I highlighted in bold. That's an opinion, not fact. Though there's a 88% chance that you're correct. 

 

I concur, any team can be bit by the injury bug at any given time. Not saying that it would take for a southern 6a team to be decimated by injuries, just commenting that anything can happen and if the North puts together a gr8 team while the Southern Kings have a "down" year and someone gets past the hounds and rocks..  The top 6 is bound to stub their toe at some point...when..if ever..who knows..

[temptation]

6 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

In the conversation? I think so. As the season went on, I got the feeling they were better than what they were in Week 2. I think Penn and Crown Point were in the conversation as well............big schools, good tradition, and undefeated. Not sure why they wouldn't be.  We all knew all season long that the favorites were Brownsburg and Carmel. Maybe you should have asked, "were they a favorite to win." That would be a "no." 

So about 1/3rd of the class was “in the conversation?”

 

Edited November 25, 2025 by temptation

[23andCounting]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

So about 1/3rd of the class was “in the conversation?”

 

Do I really have to research this right now? Sure, let's say 1/3. Quit beating around the bush, what are you getting at?

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Do I really have to research this right now? Sure, let's say 1/3. Quit beating around the bush, what are you getting at?

We obviously have different rules about what “in the conversation” means.

Brownsburg

Westfield

Carmel

Center Grove

That’s the list.  

[23andCounting]

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

We obviously have different rules about what “in the conversation” means.

Brownsburg

Westfield

Carmel

Center Grove

That’s the list.  

So at the beginning of the season schools like Ben Davis, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, and Crown Point weren't even in the conversation? I think any team with more than a 1% chance of winning should be in the conversation, probably includes Warren Central. 

[temptation]

9 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

So at the beginning of the season schools like Ben Davis, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, and Crown Point weren't even in the conversation? I think any team with more than a 1% chance of winning should be in the conversation, probably includes Warren Central. 

Nah, that’s a long winded conversation.

Anyone with a functional brain knew it was coming down to these four teams.

LN was on the outside looking in due to their two playmakers but their early season home loss to Fishers and lack of overall discipline was evident from September on.

I’ll even go a step farther…the four teams mentioned will be the teams in the conversation next year, and the next, and the next…

[23andCounting]

 

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nah, that’s a long winded conversation.

Anyone with a functional brain knew it was coming down to these four teams.

LN was on the outside looking in due to their two playmakers but their early season home loss to Fishers and lack of overall discipline was evident from September on.

I’ll even go a step farther…the four teams mentioned will be the teams in the conversation next year, and the next, and the next…

I guess I don't see why Brownsburg, Westfield, Carmel, Lawrence North, Fishers, Center Grove, Carroll, Decatur Central, Crown Point, HSE, Warren Central, and Ben Davis wouldn't all be part of the conversation. It's either that or just Brownsburg and everyone else. 

Regarding next year, I've got 360 days to rebuttal your claim. 

 

[temptation]

13 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

 

I guess I don't see why Brownsburg, Westfield, Carmel, Lawrence North, Fishers, Center Grove, Carroll, Decatur Central, Crown Point, HSE, Warren Central, and Ben Davis wouldn't all be part of the conversation. It's either that or just Brownsburg and everyone else. 

Regarding next year, I've got 360 days to rebuttal your claim. 

 

You gave Warren NO SHOT just weeks ago.

HSE, Fishers better win the HCC first.  They are a combined 4-16 vs Brownsburg and 5-15 against Westfield in their last 20.

Carroll and Crown Point just aren’t ready yet.

No one expected DC to win a sectional in their first year in 6A, let alone be in the conversation to win the title.

Ben Davis was young and the coaching turnover there has officially become concerning.

Edited November 25, 2025 by temptation

[Yuccaguy]

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

You gave Warren NO SHOT just weeks ago.

HSE, Fishers better win the HCC first.  They are a combined 4-16 vs Brownsburg and 5-15 against Westfield in their last 20.

Carroll and Crown Point just aren’t ready yet.

No one expected DC to win a sectional in their first year in 6A, let alone be in the conversation to win the title.

Ben Davis was young and the coaching turnover there has officially become concerning.

North of US 24, its a dice-roll at this time.  It all depends on what they have coming back.

I am not ruling out Crown Point, Penn or Carroll (US 24) to make it to LOS.  I just think that 2/3 of them need to take on "donut schools" and not use their primary focus on the Conference Championships.   

To win 6A you need to be aware and prepared for 4 quarters of tough 6A FB.  

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

North of US 24, its a dice-roll at this time.  It all depends on what they have coming back.

I am not ruling out Crown Point, Penn or Carroll (US 24) to make it to LOS.  I just think that 2/3 of them need to take on "donut schools" and not use their primary focus on the Conference Championships.   

To win 6A you need to be aware and prepared for 4 quarters of tough 6A FB.  

The problem has been what happens WHEN they’ve made it to LOS.

[Yuccaguy]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

The problem has been what happens WHEN they’ve made it to LOS.

That's a different topic.

[Rodney]

you guys are sleeping on southport

 

I'll take them against CP any day

[23andCounting]

7 hours ago, temptation said:

1. You gave Warren NO SHOT just weeks ago.

HSE, Fishers better win the HCC first.  They are a combined 4-16 vs Brownsburg and 5-15 against Westfield in their last 20.

2. Carroll and Crown Point just aren’t ready yet.

3. No one expected DC to win a sectional in their first year in 6A, let alone be in the conversation to win the title.

4. Ben Davis was young and the coaching turnover there has officially become concerning.

1. That is correct, but at the beginning of the season, they were probably in the 2-5% range.

2. Yet they've both been to the state title game in the past four years after beating the best team in the best conference. 

3. I gave DC maybe a 1-2% chance of winning state, hence being in the conversation. 

4. Ben Davis is Ben Davis. Five percent at the beginning of the season. Worth having a conversation about. 

You prefer to only discuss the teams that are favored to win, where I prefer to discuss any team that has a remote shot. We can do it your way if you want, I'll just refrain from having any opinion on 6A for the 2026 season. 

I want to remind the forum that back in 2021, you said "show me" in reference to the North winning some games in against the south. Crown Point toppled Westfield in 2023, best team in the best conference. Carroll beat HSE in 2022, best team in the best conference. Both Carroll and Snider beat Warren Central in 2023, a Warrior club that was HIGHLY touted by the Indianapolis media during preseason, only to start 0-2 against Fort Wayne. Then Snider easily handled DC in the state title game. But this really isn't about Snider, they've been beating Indy teams for years. Kind of hard to deny the emergence of Carroll and Crown Point though with "not ready" comments. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

1. That is correct, but at the beginning of the season, they were probably in the 2-5% range.

2. Yet they've both been to the state title game in the past four years after beating the best team in the best conference. 

3. I gave DC maybe a 1-2% chance of winning state, hence being in the conversation. 

4. Ben Davis is Ben Davis. Five percent at the beginning of the season. Worth having a conversation about. 

You prefer to only discuss the teams that are favored to win, where I prefer to discuss any team that has a remote shot. We can do it your way if you want, I'll just refrain from having any opinion on 6A for the 2026 season. 

I want to remind the forum that back in 2021, you said "show me" in reference to the North winning some games in against the south. Crown Point toppled Westfield in 2023, best team in the best conference. Carroll beat HSE in 2022, best team in the best conference. Both Carroll and Snider beat Warren Central in 2023, a Warrior club that was HIGHLY touted by the Indianapolis media during preseason, only to start 0-2 against Fort Wayne. Then Snider easily handled DC in the state title game. But this really isn't about Snider, they've been beating Indy teams for years. Kind of hard to deny the emergence of Carroll and Crown Point though with "not ready" comments. 

As suspected, we have extreme differences in how we view teams that are “in the conversation,”

Even if I were to concede Ben Davis and Warren, after the first 4-6 weeks of the season, we had enough data to eliminate them as contenders.

Clemson, Texas, Penn State and Florida State were “in the conversation” for the CFP back in September and look where they are now.  Look at what Carmel did to both Warren and BD. No different.

Yes, you cite Carroll’s win over HSE and Crown Point’s win over Westfield frequently but it’s hard to view them as more than “one offs” based on what happened to them at LOS.  No fault of their own just simple geography.

I won’t get into the specifics of Snider and Warren and will focus on the postseason.

The data is pretty clear…to me anyway.

Edited November 25, 2025 by temptation

[23andCounting]

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

As suspected, we have extreme differences in how we view teams that are “in the conversation,”

Even if I were to concede Ben Davis and Warren, after the first 4-6 weeks of the season, we had enough data to eliminate them as contenders.

Clemson, Texas, Penn State and Florida State were “in the conversation” for the CFP back in September and look where they are now.  Look at what Carmel did to both Warren and BD. No different.

Yes, you cite Carroll’s win over HSE and Crown Point’s win over Westfield frequently but it’s hard to view them as more than “one offs” based on what happened to them at LOS.  No fault of their own just simple geography.

I won’t get into the specifics of Snider and Warren and will focus on the postseason.

The data is pretty clear…to me anyway.

I agree that most of the teams on my list were eliminated midway through the season, but even if a team has a 1% chance in Week 1, I think they are worth a mention. 

I'm not convinced on your "one off" theory. I think you'll see Carroll, Crown Point, or Penn back down at Lucas sooner than later. The gap has closed. Maybe it will take a small downtick in talent at Carmel and Westfield. I think the biggest threat to the North at this point is Kevin Wright and Carmel. Hard not to find a massive offensive line, which is what it takes in 6A, at an enrollment school like Carmel. In fact, the more I think about, maybe the forementioned schools won't get there sooner than later. Wright is going to build a machine at Carmel.