Future of the SAC

[23andCounting]

21 hours ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

I guess I can't give you an answer for those bigger schools. I don't have much experience with them. For the smaller schools it is more difficult to get some guys on the all-state teams, so all-conference is the only recognition some of them can get. 

I imagine a junior or sophomore making all-conference would probably get the attention of scouts if the kid has otherwise gone unnoticed. You make a good point. 

It will be interesting to see how this all goes down and whether or not it will affect other nearby conferences. I personally had no issue with the SAC as it was. 

For Carroll: If playing Center Grove, Hamilton Southeastern, Snider, Dwenger, and Homestead doesn't prepare you for the tournament, I'm not sure what will. As stated before, I think playing schools like South Side and Concordia are good tune-up games. It gives the Chargers an opportunity to work on some things as you would in a pre-season scrimmage. Reps for the second stringers. Rest for the starters. 

For Concordia: Why not take the Bishop Luers approach? The Knights wouldn't have thirteen state titles if they were playing in a conference with a bunch of 1A, 2A, and 3A programs. I think at least a few of those titles were a result of the preparation playing the bigger schools gave them. 

At the end of the day, I'm not going to blame a program that want's to play schools more like themselves in terms of strength and enrollment. There are some obvious advantages of that in terms of player buy-in and fan turn out. It will be fun just watching what escalates from here. Maybe another massive opponent for Carroll worth making the trip out to see with Dinan's "go big or go home" approach.  I really don't have a dog in this fight. 

[jakone]

11 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

I imagine a junior or sophomore making all-conference would probably get the attention of scouts if the kid has otherwise gone unnoticed. You make a good point. 

It will be interesting to see how this all goes down and whether or not it will affect other nearby conferences. I personally had no issue with the SAC as it was. 

For Carroll: If playing Center Grove, Hamilton Southeastern, Snider, Dwenger, and Homestead doesn't prepare you for the tournament, I'm not sure what will. As stated before, I think playing schools like South Side and Concordia are good tune-up games. It gives the Chargers an opportunity to work on some things as you would in a pre-season scrimmage. Reps for the second stringers. Rest for the starters. 

For Concordia: Why not take the Bishop Luers approach? The Knights wouldn't have thirteen state titles if they were playing in a conference with a bunch of 1A, 2A, and 3A programs. I think at least a few of those titles were a result of the preparation playing the bigger schools gave them. 

At the end of the day, I'm not going to blame a program that want's to play schools more like themselves in terms of strength and enrollment. There are some obvious advantages of that in terms of player buy-in and fan turn out. It will be fun just watching what escalates from here. Maybe another massive opponent for Carroll worth making the trip out to see with Dinan's "go big or go home" approach.  I really don't have a dog in this fight. 

Adams Central thrives come playoff time while playing small schools during the regular season. Again talent and coaching is the biggest factor for success. 

[23andCounting]

3 hours ago, jakone said:

Adams Central thrives come playoff time while playing small schools during the regular season. Again talent and coaching is the biggest factor for success. 

Agree. I think there are a few programs like Adams Central who have systems that are designed for success every year, regardless of their schedule strength. Chris Geesman at Penn and Russ Isaacs at Snider were two of those programs. Currently New Pal. 

Edited May 1 by 23andCounting

[Komets2727]

On 4/28/2026 at 11:59 AM, jakone said:

And the Indy area schools will still mop the floor with you come playoff time. You either have talent or you don't playing bigger and better schools aren't going to make you more talent it's a myth. 

And beating Concordia 56-0 is going to make them better? 

[jakone]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

And beating Concordia 56-0 is going to make them better? 

When was Snider more relevant statewide before Homestead and Carroll or after? 

[Komets2727]

More state titles after they joined, but having watched Snider for 50 years, better teams before they joined in my opinion

[23andCounting]

I think this is a Carroll and Homestead thing, as stated before. My guess is that Snider and Dwenger are okay with the SAC in it's current form. Just a hunch.

I'm looking forward to who Carroll and Homestead might pick up. New and interesting opponents are good for attendance. Something tells me that Carroll vs Toledo Whitmer will bring a bigger gate than Carroll vs South Side. 

#Fort-vs-Port

[HoopsCoach]

It’s too bad Fort Wayne and South Bend/Elkhart are 2 hours apart.  A blend of the SAC and the NIC could provide some good matchups and create better competitive balance with divisions of similar schools.  Something like this:

Division 1 (largest schools)

Penn 3476

Elkhart 2876

Carroll (Fort Wayne) 2581

Homestead 2345

Fort Wayne Northrop 2069

Fort Wayne Snider 1854

Division 2

South Bend Adams 1878

Fort Wayne South Side 1419

Fort Wayne Wayne 1367

Fort Wayne North Side 1320

South Bend Riley 1249

South Bend Washington 693

Division 3 (Private/Parochial)

Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger 936

South Bend Saint Joseph 922

Culver Academies 833

Mishawaka Marian 783

Fort Wayne Concordia 735

Fort Wayne Bishop Luers 538

[23andCounting]

@HoopsCoach

I like your Division 1 scenario with the addition of Dwenger and Warsaw. Two non-conference games. Fort Wayne schools would have one long travel game, two depending on their non-conference opponents. I guess it would come down to Penn and Elkhart's willingness to travel.

[Robert]

12 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

It’s too bad Fort Wayne and South Bend/Elkhart are 2 hours apart.  A blend of the SAC and the NIC could provide some good matchups and create better competitive balance with divisions of similar schools.  Something like this:

Division 1 (largest schools)

Penn 3476

Elkhart 2876

Carroll (Fort Wayne) 2581

Homestead 2345

Fort Wayne Northrop 2069

Fort Wayne Snider 1854

Division 2

South Bend Adams 1878

Fort Wayne South Side 1419

Fort Wayne Wayne 1367

Fort Wayne North Side 1320

South Bend Riley 1249

South Bend Washington 693

Division 3 (Private/Parochial)

Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger 936

South Bend Saint Joseph 922

Culver Academies 833

Mishawaka Marian 783

Fort Wayne Concordia 735

Fort Wayne Bishop Luers 538

 

12 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

@HoopsCoach

I like your Division 1 scenario with the addition of Dwenger and Warsaw. Two non-conference games. Fort Wayne schools would have one long travel game, two depending on their non-conference opponents. I guess it would come down to Penn and Elkhart's willingness to travel.

3 better than 2.  Some years the Catholics deserve Div 1, some years they do not. 

[23andCounting]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

 

3 better than 2.  Some years the Catholics deserve Div 1, some years they do not. 

Can't say I disagree. Opens the door for Luers vs Dwenger or Luers vs Northrop. Former SAC games stay in tact. Luers vs Snider might even work. Lopsided series, but Luers is always competitive. I'm guessing that's a proposition Snider wouldn't say "no" to. Easy travel. 

[psaboy]

On 4/24/2026 at 9:18 AM, 23andCounting said:

I think the MIC and the HCC have proven your point. Playing that kind of competition week in and week out sets a higher standard. I don't think a few tune up games are bad, but I understand the logic. I personally like what Carroll and Homestead have done. They've taken the non-conference games with a "go big or go home" attitude. I don't necessarily like that those games have to be the first two weeks of the season though. It would be nice to schedule a game like that during the last couple weeks of the regular season. Not sure what the overall ingredient is. I just know catching up with the HCC and the MIC is a tall order. Something like this would help though. 

Carroll, Homestead, Northop, Snider, Dwenger, Penn, Elkhart + three non-conference games (5A & 6A teams only) would be a good start. 

Are we sure we should invite Northrop to the party?? They are typically a less than .500 team. How about Warsaw instead. 

[23andCounting]

9 hours ago, psaboy said:

Are we sure we should invite Northrop to the party?? They are typically a less than .500 team. How about Warsaw instead. 

They have the enrollment, athletes, and college like stadium atmosphere. They just need a coach willing to stick around long term. 

[Komets2727]

14 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

They have the enrollment, athletes, and college like stadium atmosphere. They just need a coach willing to stick around long term. 

Northrop sucks. 23, you are basing this off one year. They need to put together 5 years of good play to even be mentioned

[23andCounting]

9 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Northrop sucks. 23, you are basing this off one year. They need to put together 5 years of good play to even be mentioned

I'm not sure how you exclude a school with 2200 students, a balanced mixture of inner city and suburban kids, and one of the nicer football facilities in the state. 

Advantage for Northrop: A super conference pushes them to be better. Disadvantage: FWCS doesn't pay football coaches well. Drawing top tier coaching is a problem. 

Advantage for their Opponents: Talented teams like 2025 & 2026 will challenge them to the end. Down years at Northrop will offer their opponents an "off" game........I don't see a problem having a game like that your schedule. 

[Komets2727]

4 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

I'm not sure how you exclude a school with 2200 students, a balanced mixture of inner city and suburban kids, and one of the nicer football facilities in the state. 

Advantage for Northrop: A super conference pushes them to be better. Disadvantage: FWCS doesn't pay football coaches well. Drawing top tier coaching is a problem. 

Advantage for their Opponents: Talented teams like 2025 & 2026 will challenge them to the end. Down years at Northrop will offer their opponents an "off" game........I don't see a problem having a game like that your schedule. 

What tradition does Northrop football have? Zero. They have been a laughingstock of the SAC for 50 years. Hell, they have been better known as Snider’s home field at Spuller Stadium than for anything they have ever done at their OWN stadium. 

Edited May 8 by Komets2727

[23andCounting]

21 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

What tradition does Northrop football have? Zero. They have been a laughingstock of the SAC for 50 years. Hell, they have been better known as Snider’s home field at Spuller Stadium than for anything they have ever done at their OWN stadium. 

Do you have a better suggestion? Snider, Dwenger, Northrop, Homestead, Carroll, Penn, and Elkhart. That leaves two non-conference games. Add Warsaw? Swap Northrop for Warsaw? There aren't many options without having to travel too far. Penn and Elkhart may not even be on board for something like this. Eliminate those two, add Warsaw, and each team still has to go searching for three more games. No matter how you slice it, Northop fits the mold. 

[23andCounting]

Congrats to Homestead for picking up Warren Central in Week 9. That gives the Spartans three Indy 6A teams. Go big or go home.....love it!

[Komets2727]

On 5/8/2026 at 11:51 AM, 23andCounting said:

Do you have a better suggestion? Snider, Dwenger, Northrop, Homestead, Carroll, Penn, and Elkhart. That leaves two non-conference games. Add Warsaw? Swap Northrop for Warsaw? There aren't many options without having to travel too far. Penn and Elkhart may not even be on board for something like this. Eliminate those two, add Warsaw, and each team still has to go searching for three more games. No matter how you slice it, Northop fits the mold. 

Warsaw or even possibly North Side, who despite the lack of discipline around their program, has accomplished much more than Northrop ever has. Put it this way, Northrop is on the level of South Side as far as wins and losses over the years. Every other SAC team has had state titles or st least deep runs into the postseason. 

Edited May 13 by Komets2727

[23andCounting]

32 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Warsaw or even possibly North Side, who despite the lack of discipline around their program, has accomplished much more than Northrop ever has. Put it this way, Northrop is on the level of South Side as far as wins and losses over the years. Every other SAC team has had state titles or st least deep runs into the postseason. 

South Side? Really? They weren't a bad team with Jason Doerffler running the show. He recorded wins over North Side & Luers (multiple wins) and wins over Homestead and Carroll. Yeah, Bowen's teams were pretty bad, but last season is a good example of what a subpar coach can do with a massive amount of talent. They just need a coach who's willing to stick around long term to build the program. Again, it really comes down to travel. If the big boys of the SAC are looking to create a stronger conference, they'd be foolish not to include 6A Northrop. So what if the Bruins are having a bad year.........makes for a good tune-up game for their opponents. 

[Komets2727]

9 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

South Side? Really? They weren't a bad team with Jason Doerffler running the show. He recorded wins over North Side & Luers (multiple wins) and wins over Homestead and Carroll. Yeah, Bowen's teams were pretty bad, but last season is a good example of what a subpar coach can do with a massive amount of talent. They just need a coach who's willing to stick around long term to build the program. Again, it really comes down to travel. If the big boys of the SAC are looking to create a stronger conference, they'd be foolish not to include 6A Northrop. So what if the Bruins are having a bad year.........makes for a good tune-up game for their opponents. 

Look at their history 23, what playoff success has Northrop ever had? Don’t think they have ever won a regional title, every other SAC team other than South Side has won sectionals, regionals, and at least gotten to semi-state, most have won state titles. 

[23andCounting]

9 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Look at their history 23, what playoff success has Northrop ever had? Don’t think they have

"EVER"

won a regional title, every other SAC team other than South Side has won sectionals, regionals, and at least gotten to semi-state, most have won state titles. 

Well, 27 years ago they waxed Carmel in the regionals before bowing out to Penn in a hard fought semi-state game..........if that counts. 

At the end of the day, a bunch of 6A schools from the north are more likely to include Northrop in their conference than a bunch of smaller schools. Due to their enrollment and resources, they are a much better fit to rumble with the big boys. I get they at they play more on the level of a Columbia City or a Dekalb, but their ceiling is MUCH higher. Northrop's boys just took home the SAC track title, and that's nothing new. They've always been good at track. The talent is there. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 4/25/2026 at 1:02 AM, 260AC said:

Carroll is going to concede two conference championships just so they don't have to play Concordia? that is wild. 

I wish Penn would do this.

[23andCounting]

42 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I wish Penn would do this.

Homestead replaced South Side with Warren Central. I would think the memory of beating Warren Central would supersede the memory of defeating South Side on the way to an SAC title. What good is it to say "we're conference champions" if you get waxed by the best teams on your schedule? I think the goal is to get better and make deep playoff runs. 

[jakone]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

Homestead replaced South Side with Warren Central. I would think the memory of beating Warren Central would supersede the memory of defeating South Side on the way to an SAC title. What good is it to say "we're conference champions" if you get waxed by the best teams on your schedule? I think the goal is to get better and make deep playoff runs. 

Homestead is ineligible for the sac title.