A new SAC

[BTF]

Seeing South Side take care of business 30-20 against New Haven made me want to revisit a structure change in the SAC. New Haven isn't a bad football team, they just ran into a one win team that had to go through the toughest schedule in the state outside of the Indy area. New Haven joining the SAC makes sense to me for a few reasons:

1. They are basically Fort Wayne anyway. Downtown NH is only 10 minutes down the street from Downtown FW. 

2. New Haven joining the SAC would amp up their level of competition. Therefore raising the bar for their athletic programs and making them better.

3. Joining the SAC with another team would give the conference 12 teams. Two divisions and the opportunity to play outside competition..........which would make ALL SAC teams better.

The other said team would be Leo. That community is only 5 minutes down the road from the fastest growing area of Fort Wayne (Carroll district). It's a great community with an excellent athletic program. They would fit in nicely with the SAC and basically a burb of Fort Wayne anyway. 

Division I (Large School) would consist of Carroll, Homestead, Northrop, Snider, North Side, and Dwenger.

Division ll (Small school) would consist of South Side, Leo, Wayne, New Haven, Concordia, and Luers. 

Each division is required to schedule two opponents from the other division and are allowed two games outside of conference. 

Think Snider vs Penn, Homestead vs Westfield, Dwenger vs Chatard, or Carroll vs Elkhart. All in all it would make the conference better.............. that's not even debatable. Unfortunately it will never happen though. The SAC is happy with a 10 team football conference for ease of scheduling. But ease of scheduling also equates to less interesting games and lower bar to measure themselves against. 

 

[Prospect]

36 minutes ago, BTF said:

Seeing South Side take care of business 30-20 against New Haven made me want to revisit a structure change in the SAC. New Haven isn't a bad football team, they just ran into a one win team that had to go through the toughest schedule in the state outside of the Indy area. New Haven joining the SAC makes sense to me for a few reasons:

2. New Haven joining the SAC would amp up their level of competition. Therefore raising the bar for their athletic programs and making them better.

 

 

New Haven struggles to compete in the NE8. They should without a doubt be the team to beat in the NE8, but other than 2016 they have been another stepping stone for EN or Leo. Putting them in the SAC would just see them go under .500 every single year. 

Location wise it definitely makes sense for them to be in the SAC, but from a competitive standpoint they would never win a conference title. Since 1994 they have won 0 NHC titles and 2 NE8 titles (1 of those being shared with Leo and EN.) 

[jakone]

4 minutes ago, Prospect said:

New Haven struggles to compete in the NE8. They should without a doubt be the team to beat in the NE8, but other than 2016 they have been another stepping stone for EN or Leo. Putting them in the SAC would just see them go under .500 every single year. 

Location wise it definitely makes sense for them to be in the SAC, but from a competitive standpoint they would never win a conference title. Since 1994 they have won 0 NHC titles and 2 NE8 titles (1 of those being shared with Leo and EN.) 

Will the best team win or the team with the easiest schedule.

[BTF]

29 minutes ago, jakone said:

Will the best team win or the team with the easiest schedule.

You would have to crown a champion somehow, so I guess you'd have the division teams play one another during the last week according to record. That would leave one inter-conference game of schools choice plus two games outside of conference. 

[Prospect]

12 minutes ago, jakone said:

Will the best team win or the team with the easiest schedule.

Not sure what this has to do with New Haven being competitive the the SAC, but clearly the best team wins the majority of the time.

The fact that they lost to South Side most likely means we would have seen them go 0-10 this year in the SAC.

It's not that they do not have talent, but they might be one of the most consistently undisciplined teams I have ever seen. If you get the right coach in there that can change that I think you could have a team that competes with the SAC. Until that is done, you would just have another team that is fighting to not finish last in the conference. 

Playing a tougher schedule has worked for teams in the SAC, but outside of the P/P schools and Snider no team has been successful in the post season and unfortunately this year will not be any different.

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

You would have to crown a champion somehow, so I guess you'd have the division teams play one another during the last week according to record. That would leave one inter-conference game of schools choice plus two games outside of conference. 

Unless this is what you meant by best team or team with the easiest schedule. I think you would have to have a game at the end of the year for the overall SAC title.

I do love the idea of playing teams outside of the conference, if some of the matchups listed above were to happen it would allow FW schools to see exactly where they are at in relation to the competition. Carroll, Homestead and Snider playing teams from the MIC/HCC would let them know what the next level of competition feels like before meeting one of them in the regional/semi state.

[Purdue Pete]

1 hour ago, Prospect said:

New Haven struggles to compete in the NE8. They should without a doubt be the team to beat in the NE8, but other than 2016 they have been another stepping stone for EN or Leo. Putting them in the SAC would just see them go under .500 every single year. 

Location wise it definitely makes sense for them to be in the SAC, but from a competitive standpoint they would never win a conference title. Since 1994 they have won 0 NHC titles and 2 NE8 titles (1 of those being shared with Leo and EN.) 

From what I’ve seen it’s going to get worst for NH before it gets better.  NH middle school teams have been struggling to compete with other NE8 teams for the last few years.

[BTF]

59 minutes ago, Prospect said:

you would just have another team that is fighting to not finish last in the conference. 

With the right coach, they could be competitive in the small division. 

1 hour ago, Prospect said:

Playing a tougher schedule has worked for teams in the SAC, but outside of the P/P schools and Snider no team has been successful in the post season and unfortunately this year will not be any different.

Homestead, if they get by Snider and Carroll again, will have an intriguing matchup with Westfield. They'll be the underdog, but I think they can be competitive with the Shamrocks.

 

1 hour ago, Prospect said:

I do love the idea of playing teams outside of the conference, if some of the matchups listed above were to happen it would allow FW schools to see exactly where they are at in relation to the competition. Carroll, Homestead and Snider playing teams from the MIC/HCC would let them know what the next level of competition feels like before meeting one of them in the regional/semi state.

Economically, more revenue for the athletic departments. Attendance will be better with more interesting competition.

[Guest DT]

3 hours ago, BTF said:

Seeing South Side take care of business 30-20 against New Haven made me want to revisit a structure change in the SAC. New Haven isn't a bad football team, they just ran into a one win team that had to go through the toughest schedule in the state outside of the Indy area. New Haven joining the SAC makes sense to me for a few reasons:

1. They are basically Fort Wayne anyway. Downtown NH is only 10 minutes down the street from Downtown FW. 

2. New Haven joining the SAC would amp up their level of competition. Therefore raising the bar for their athletic programs and making them better.

3. Joining the SAC with another team would give the conference 12 teams. Two divisions and the opportunity to play outside competition..........which would make ALL SAC teams better.

The other said team would be Leo. That community is only 5 minutes down the road from the fastest growing area of Fort Wayne (Carroll district). It's a great community with an excellent athletic program. They would fit in nicely with the SAC and basically a burb of Fort Wayne anyway. 

Division I (Large School) would consist of Carroll, Homestead, Northrop, Snider, North Side, and Dwenger.

Division ll (Small school) would consist of South Side, Leo, Wayne, New Haven, Concordia, and Luers. 

Each division is required to schedule two opponents from the other division and are allowed two games outside of conference. 

Think Snider vs Penn, Homestead vs Westfield, Dwenger vs Chatard, or Carroll vs Elkhart. All in all it would make the conference better.............. that's not even debatable. Unfortunately it will never happen though. The SAC is happy with a 10 team football conference for ease of scheduling. But ease of scheduling also equates to less interesting games and lower bar to measure themselves against. 

 

I believe this Covid experience will cause coaches, ADs and admins to think more insular and look for ways to minimize travel as much as possible.  This could lead to more conferences looking to add schools to get to a full round robin schedule and eliminate the need to schedule non con opponents, regardless of location.

The SAC and the SIAC are the new model for conference structure going forward.

This would be an excellent time for Elkhart and Penn to take another shot at Duneland Conference membership.  The NLC would also be wise to look for 2 more schools to get to 10.

The Northwest Crossroads can get to 10 by adding Morton, Hammond Central, EC Central and Gary West Side.

The NIC will be at 11 if Elkhart and Penn leave.

 

 

 

 

[Prospect]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

Homestead, if they get by Snider and Carroll again, will have an intriguing matchup with Westfield. They'll be the underdog, but I think they can be competitive with the Shamrocks.

Homestead definitely has a chance to beat Westfield. I would have loved to see Goode come back, but Ormsby has settled into the QB role nicely. If they make it past Westfield I do like their chances of beating Elkhart, Penn, or Lafayette Jeff to advance to the finals. Unfortunately Center Grove will most likely await them from the South - if you haven't had a chance to watch them play I would highly recommend it.

[Guest DT]

6 minutes ago, DT said:

I believe this Covid experience will cause coaches, ADs and admins to think more insular and look for ways to minimize travel as much as possible.  This could lead to more conferences looking to add schools to get to a full round robin schedule and eliminate the need to schedule non con opponents, regardless of location.

The SAC and the SIAC are the new model for conference structure going forward.

This would be an excellent time for Elkhart and Penn to take another shot at Duneland Conference membership.  The NLC would also be wise to look for 2 more schools to get to 10.

The Northwest Crossroads can get to 10 by adding Morton, Hammond Central, EC Central and Gary West Side.

The NIC will be at 11 if Elkhart and Penn leave.

 

 

 

 

If Elkhart and Penn leave, New Prairie will look either east to the NLC or west to the NCC.  

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, DT said:

If Elkhart and Penn leave, New Prairie will look either east to the NLC or west to the NCC.  

I like New Prairie and Culver Military to the NLC

[Gridiron_Junkie]

So all this is about is to find ways for Snider to be able to play teams outside the conference.

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, Gridiron_Junkie said:

So all this is about is to find ways for Snider to be able to play teams outside the conference.

Not sure how or why you came to that conclusion.

[BTF]

21 minutes ago, Prospect said:

Unfortunately Center Grove will most likely await them from the South - if you haven't had a chance to watch them play I would highly recommend it.

I tried to stream the CG/Cathedral game but couldn't find it. Both those teams in my opinion are having their best year ever. It's a shame someone had to lose. I agree, unless CG doesn't show up, they'll be the 2020 champs. 

[scarab527]

16 minutes ago, DT said:

I believe this Covid experience will cause coaches, ADs and admins to think more insular and look for ways to minimize travel as much as possible.  This could lead to more conferences looking to add schools to get to a full round robin schedule and eliminate the need to schedule non con opponents, regardless of location.

The SAC and the SIAC are the new model for conference structure going forward.

This would be an excellent time for Elkhart and Penn to take another shot at Duneland Conference membership.  The NLC would also be wise to look for 2 more schools to get to 10.

The Northwest Crossroads can get to 10 by adding Morton, Hammond Central, EC Central and Gary West Side.

The NIC will be at 11 if Elkhart and Penn leave.

 

 

 

 

Why would covid make teams want to do this? Also, would these suggestions actually limit travel? For example, the DAC already spans 3 counties, I highly doubt they’ll want to add another county and a whole other time zone. Those teams coming to the NCC wouldn’t decrease travel for the teams in the conference, as well as adding nothing in terms of competition while taking away non-conference games. Don’t see the sense in teams trying to get to closed conferences just because of covid. 

[Prospect]

17 minutes ago, Gridiron_Junkie said:

So all this is about is to find ways for Snider to be able to play teams outside the conference.

It's about getting on the same level as the competition. Homestead, Snider and Carroll would benefit greatly playing some of the big Indy schools. 6A is and for the foreseeable future will remain the MIC vs everyone else.

Teams like Luers and Concordia might not benefit from this as much because they are already playing biggers schools. Luers hasn't made much noise since 2012 I am sure they would be excited to play some teams outside of the conference that can make them better.

Luers, Concordia and Dwenger could all schedule Chatard and Cathedral, Fort Wayne vs Indy P/P battles would sell tickets and make the Fort Wayne schools better. 

[BTF]

29 minutes ago, DT said:

I believe this Covid experience will cause coaches, ADs and admins to think more insular and look for ways to minimize travel as much as possible.  This could lead to more conferences looking to add schools to get to a full round robin schedule and eliminate the need to schedule non con opponents, regardless of location.

The SAC and the SIAC are the new model for conference structure going forward.

This would be an excellent time for Elkhart and Penn to take another shot at Duneland Conference membership.  The NLC would also be wise to look for 2 more schools to get to 10.

The Northwest Crossroads can get to 10 by adding Morton, Hammond Central, EC Central and Gary West Side.

The NIC will be at 11 if Elkhart and Penn leave.

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more about Penn and Elkhart joining the Duneland. But doesn't that conflict with "minimalize travel as much as possible?" I see that Elkhart is an hour and a half from Merrillville. I would like to see it, but I agree that the AD's would push back against it. 

Although my plan for the SAC would be better for all in terms of economics and appeal, I agree that the AD's and administrators will have nothing to do with it. For whatever reason, "easy" seems to override everything else when it comes to the SAC. "Easy" has been the SAC's stance long before Covid arrived. 

 

[Gridiron_Junkie]

6 minutes ago, Prospect said:

It's about getting on the same level as the competition. Homestead, Snider and Carroll would benefit greatly playing some of the big Indy schools. 6A is and for the foreseeable future will remain the MIC vs everyone else.

Teams like Luers and Concordia might not benefit from this as much because they are already playing biggers schools. Luers hasn't made much noise since 2012 I am sure they would be excited to play some teams outside of the conference that can make them better.

Luers, Concordia and Dwenger could all schedule Chatard and Cathedral, Fort Wayne vs Indy P/P battles would sell tickets and make the Fort Wayne schools better. 

So now ya wanna go all the way to Indy for back and fourth games?  So why not Toledo columbus,cincy Then.  All seems silly to me.

[BTF]

1 minute ago, Prospect said:

It's about getting on the same level as the competition. Homestead, Snider and Carroll would benefit greatly playing some of the big Indy schools. 6A is and for the foreseeable future will remain the MIC vs everyone else.

Teams like Luers and Concordia might not benefit from this as much because they are already playing biggers schools. Luers hasn't made much noise since 2012 I am sure they would be excited to play some teams outside of the conference that can make them better.

Luers, Concordia and Dwenger could all schedule Chatard and Cathedral, Fort Wayne vs Indy P/P battles would sell tickets and make the Fort Wayne schools better. 

Great post...........every word of it. 

Center Grove and the rest of the HCC slowly rose to the level of the nearby MIC. It didn't happen overnight, but it eventually happened. The same could happen for Snider, Homestead, and Carroll if they can schedule an Indy team or two. Even Penn or Elkhart would benefit them more than one of the "Division ll" teams. Throw Merrillville and Valpo into the mix. There are all sorts of possibilities. I'm sure Coldwater (Ohio), Hartley (Columbus), and Whitmer (Toledo) would all be more than happy to come back to the Fort. 

You hit the nail on the head regarding ticket sales. 

[BTF]

5 minutes ago, Gridiron_Junkie said:

So now ya wanna go all the way to Indy for back and fourth games?  So why not Toledo columbus,cincy Then.  All seems silly to me.

Extra revenue for our athletic departments in Fort Wayne seems "silly"? Better competition equates to better teams and longer runs in the tournament. More games equals more revenue. Better competition equals more revenue. The economic impact of a Homestead/Westfield matchup would be far greater than Homestead/South Side. 

[Prospect]

7 minutes ago, Gridiron_Junkie said:

So now ya wanna go all the way to Indy for back and fourth games?  So why not Toledo columbus,cincy Then.  All seems silly to me.

If teams want to compete it's what they have to do. Look at Cathedral, they travel to Ohio and play the best that Ohio has to offer. This is what has separated them from the competition, they are not afraid to play anyone regardless of location. You could possibly arrange for the game to be at a neutral site (Ball State would be a decent place for the Fort Wayne vs Indy P/P matchups.) 

Not wanting to travel and make everything easier is exactly what @BTF was getting at when talking about AD's in the SAC not wanting to change from the 10 team conference.

[jakone]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

Extra revenue for our athletic departments in Fort Wayne seems "silly"? Better competition equates to better teams and longer runs in the tournament. More games equals more revenue. Better competition equals more revenue. The economic impact of a Homestead/Westfield matchup would be far greater than Homestead/South Side. 

Do what's best for the fans. Greed corrupts and destroys.

[Guest DT]

11 minutes ago, BTF said:

Great post...........every word of it. 

Center Grove and the rest of the HCC slowly rose to the level of the nearby MIC. It didn't happen overnight, but it eventually happened. The same could happen for Snider, Homestead, and Carroll if they can schedule an Indy team or two. Even Penn or Elkhart would benefit them more than one of the "Division ll" teams. Throw Merrillville and Valpo into the mix. There are all sorts of possibilities. I'm sure Coldwater (Ohio), Hartley (Columbus), and Whitmer (Toledo) would all be more than happy to come back to the Fort. 

You hit the nail on the head regarding ticket sales. 

I dont think high school football ticket sales will return to past levels.  People are adjusting to a new way of living.  Streaming is quickly taking hold as the best way to watch HS football on a Friday night.  Similar to what we have seen with Indiana's historic huge gymnasiums at 15 to 20% capacity, we will see the same with many of the big football venues around the state.  We have actually been watching a significant attendance decline for many years now.  Covid has exacerbated that decline.

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, jakone said:

Do what's best for the fans. Greed corrupts and destroys.

It wont happen becuase there is no beneit to Westfield in this tranasction, only higher operating costs..  They can find all the competition they want locally.  

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, jakone said:

Do what's best for the fans. Greed corrupts and destroys.

The fans want better games and competition. So I agree with you there. 

Finding ways to increase your athletic department's budget has nothing to do with greed. It has everything to do with being financially responsible.