NLCTigerFan07

I saw that... and literally my jaw dropped. I know it's likely just coach speak and not publically saying anything to ruffle feathers, but I couldn't believe that was the actual quote.

I'd assume Elkhart Central, since that is who they played in the NIC with/against all those years. This could also just be me, but I kind of always assumed Elkhart Central = Elkhart, and Elkhart Memorial = new school (even though technically they were both "new" schools)

Looks like that link is missing everything before 1941. The link I provided includes games as far pack as 1924.

According to this site (which only goes through the 2015 game), the Tigers and Rockies have played every year since 1924, with the exception of 1930 where there was no game. I added the results from the last 8 seasons to the total shared on the website linked. http://ifca.zebras.net/ifca/candler/foot-history/warsaw vs plymouth.htm Plymouth leads the all-time series 52-50-2 They played twice a season in each of the five seasons between 1941-1945, which is why they have 104 total games but only 99 years included in the rivalry. Pretty amazing that over that long of time with that many matchups, the rilvary is basically even.

I believe I already answered your question previously just over a month ago, but I'll share it again and maybe this time it will stick. Considering Warsaw has dominated that rivalry over the course of history (and prior to this year had won the last 8 meetings by a combined score of 312 - 85, an average score of 39-11) AND the Tigers were fresh off their two BIGGEST games (NorthWood and Mishawaka) - NO, I am not suprised at all that the Tigers were flat. A lot of energy went into the previous two weeks opponents, and then playing a team who was 1-5 on the season and they've crushed for as long as these kids were in elementary school. Happens to teams all the time. And, in my opinion, Warsaw-Wawasee is a bit of a "forced" rivalry because of them sharing the same county. Plymouth has always felt more like a spirited rival to me personally, whereas Wawasee was the neighborhood friend you liked to beat in a game of one-on-one in the driveway type thing.

I promise I'm not trying to completely discredit the Warriors here... but the Tigers played their worst game of the season that week, the majoirity of which was self-inflicted. Yes, one could argue Wawasee made some of an impact on that, but truly much of that game was Warsaw playing just downright awful, and not necessarily anything that Wawasee was doing over impressively.

I'll need to see what I can find, but I'm pretty sure Warsaw and Plymouth have played over 100 years or something like that. I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Plymouth is the school that Warsaw has played against the most.

You must have access to numbers I haven't seen. Everything I've been told by insiders at Warsaw is their enrollment is higher now than it was during the last enrollment count. I am expecting they will still be in 6A, but again in the bottom 3 or so.

As well, their 2014 sectional loss to Roncalli prevented them from acquiring enough points to stay in 4A the next cylce. Those 3 losses are all what prevented Chatard being in 4A more often over the last decade.

I believe that is... kinda... correct. As I said, I think they somehow managed to only acquire points in 1 of 2 years in 3A that didn't warrant them moving up. 3A - 2011 - 4 points State Champs 3A - 2012 - 4 points State Champs -> move up to 4A 4A - 2013 - 1 point Sectional Champs 4A - 2014 - Sectional loss 0 points -> move back to 3A 3A - 2015 - 4 points State Champs 3A - 2016 - Sectional loss 0 points -> stay in 3A 3A - 2017 - 1 point Sectional Champs 3A - 2018 - 2 points Regional Champs -> stay in 3A 3A - 2019 - 4 points State Champs 3A - 2020 - 4 points State Champs -> move to 4A 4A - 2021 - Sectional loss 0 points -> IHSAA did some sort of weird thing and because enrollments during Covid 2020 school year were all out of whack. So they determined any schools playing UP that acquired at least 1 point during this season would STAY. Any schools that did not earn a point were returned to their lower class 3A - 2022 - 4 points State Champs 3A - 2023 - 3 point a a minimum -> move to 4A next season So basically, their 2016 sectional championship loss to Danville prevented them from getting at least 2 points that season to bump up the next cycle. And then their 2021 sectional championship loss Roncalli prevented them from staying up in 4A these last 2 seasons.

It definitely feels like they've always dominated at the right years in 3A to not get bumped up as much as they should have. The best result they have had in 4A since SF has been introduced was a Sectional Championship in 2013. Meanwhile, since that time, in 3A they have had 7 sectional championships, 6 regional championships, 5 semi-state championships, and 4 state championships (with 1 pending this weekend)

Would fully depend on where everything else lands for the other schools with enrollments. Not sure what the bottom of 5A and top of 4A looks like concerning what teams might come down/go up with enrollments. These are the schools most likely involved one way or the other as they were within around 100 students last go around 5A 60 Michigan City 1,538 5A 61 Columbus East 1,534 5A 62 FW North Side 1,513 4A 63 Kokomo 1,510 4A 64 Greenfield-Central 1,474 4A 65 Huntington North 1,442 4A 66 Muncie Central 1,437 4A 67 Northridge 1,410 The majority of those are already NORTH of Chatard, so even if a school like Kokomo goes north, they would be replaced by another north school in FW North Side, for example. Therefore, doesn't seem like any sort of "southern" influx with this group that would potentially cause a more southern school to be bumped to the north in 4A Looking at the reverse and bottom of 4A, top of 3A, it's basically the same thing. As well, with Evansville Memorial falling back to 3A next year, Chatard basically takes their spot, so that's a South for South swap. If anyone would be moving to 4A North from 4A South next year, there are a few schools already more "north" than Chatard that would likely get moved. Muncie Central, Lebanon, and Pendleton Heights the most likely in my opinion. I couldn't imagine a 4A where Chatard was in the North and Muncie Central in the South, but they don't have the brightest working down there off Meridian Street.

Agreed with this statement. I posted in the NLC thread after the first two weeks of the season (when the Panthers were 2-0) that anything LESS than an undefeated regular season and Semi-State appearance at a minimum by NorthWood would be considered a disappointing year. Then they lost 2 straight conference games, and the wheels appeared to be falling off. The fact that they were able to keep it together and get to Indianapolis on Thanksgiving weekend is a testament to Coach Andrews and the entire staff, as well as the team coming together and the support from the community. As someone else already said, that Warsaw game was something else. First, the Tigers had an excellent defense this season. They only gave up 15 offensive touchdowns all year, and 3 of those were to NorthWood in the first half of that game. The Panthers took a 21-17 lead right before halftime, but Warsaw was able to score on a 2-play drive to retake a 24-21 lead going into the locker room and stole all the momentum. In the second half, it was just mistake after mistake for NorthWood and they imploded. They ended up with 5 turnovers for the game and didn't score a point in the second half. I know it's "coach speak" sometimes to say this, but I truly believe that's what this NorthWood team needed. They needed to get punched in the mouth, buried in the ditch to find out what kind of team they needed/wanted to be. Those losses to Northridge and Warsaw were probably the best thing to ever happen to the Panthers. I don't expect them to win, but I do believe they have an opportunity to be competitive into the second half with East Central. Go Panthers!

Serious question - do they? I know they've been atop the NLC a few times, but have they made many runs in the IHSAA tournament? Admittedly, I do not follow NLC soccer very closely, and only know when Warsaw has made a few runs in recent years.

Cheering for the Pirates Friday night and Coach Seiss. The last time he faced Fort Wayne Snider, he was a senior All-State player and Mr. Football candidate for the Warsaw Tigers. An all-time classic matchup that night at Spuller Stadium. Sectional Semi-Finals, Warsaw was 10-0, Snider was 9-1, both ranked I believe in the top 5 for class 5A. The Panthers won the game 23-20 in overtime. Here's to hoping Coach Seiss can exercise some demons against Snider on Friday night!

Correct - it was 7-3 at halftime. Sorry for the confusion. I started writing parts of my post and got sidetracked and then went down another path and came back to it. Here's an edited, corrected version of my post. Exactly the #1 concern when running "Bart Ball" is what happened in the 3rd quarter of the game. This was a 7-3 game at halftime, and Warsaw had a chance to make it 7-6 or even take a 13-7 lead going into halftime with a 1st and 10 at the Penn 43 yard line, but a 15-yard penalty on their final drive of the 2nd quarter thwarted that opportunity. The start of the 3rd quarter, the compounding issues escalated things quickly. Kingsmen oppend the 2nd half with an impressive 80 yard drive that ended in a touchdown to take a 14-3 lead. Then, later the quarter, one of the strangest touchdowns of all time. Penn punted the ball (Warsaw never touched it) and the ball never made it to the line of scrimmage. A Penn player then picked up the ball and ran it all the way into the endzone for a touchdown to make it 21-3. Apparently, a punt is a live ball for EITHER team if it doesn't get back to the line of scrimmage. Ruling was correct, just not something you see that often. After that, it was all but over. Being forced the throw the ball, an extremely unfortunate pick-6 on Warsaw's next drive all but sealed the door shut with Penn leading 28-3. I'm not going to sit here and act like a 31-10 game was "close". However, it wasn't as bad as the final score indicated in my opinion.

Posted this in the Penn vs. Warsaw thread - but figured I'd add it here. Exactly the #1 concern when running "Bart Ball" is what happened in the 3rd quarter of the game. This was a 10-3 game at halftime, and Warsaw had a chance to make it 10-6 or even take a 13-10 lead going into halftime with a 1st and 10 at the Penn 43 yard line, but a 15-yard penalty on their final drive of the 2nd quarter thwarted that opportunity. The start of the 3rd quarter, the compounding issues escalated things quickly. Kingsmen oppend the 2nd half with an impressive 80 yard drive that ended in a touchdown to take a 14-3 lead. Then, later the quarter, one of the strangest touchdowns of all time. Penn punted the ball (Warsaw never touched it) and the ball never made it to the line of scrimmage. A Penn player then picked up the ball and ran it all the way into the endzone for a touchdown to make it 21-3. Apparently, a punt is a live ball for EITHER team if it doesn't get back to the line of scrimmage. Ruling was correct, just not something you see that often. After that, it was all but over. Being forced the throw the ball, an extremely unfortunate pick-6 on Warsaw's next drive all but sealed the door shut with Penn leading 28-3. I'm not going to sit here and act like a 31-10 game was "close". However, it wasn't as bad as the final score indicated in my opinion. Good luck to the Kingsmen this week! They are a heck of a team, and I can only imagine the slugfest that will be their matchup against Crown Point.

Exactly the #1 concern when running "Bart Ball" is what happened in the 3rd quarter of the game. This was a 10-3 game at halftime, and Warsaw had a chance to make it 10-6 or even take a 13-10 lead going into halftime with a 1st and 10 at the Penn 43 yard line, but a 15-yard penalty on their final drive of the 2nd quarter thwarted that opportunity. The start of the 3rd quarter, the compounding issues escalated things quickly. Kingsmen oppend the 2nd half with an impressive 80 yard drive that ended in a touchdown to take a 14-3 lead. Then, later the quarter, one of the strangest touchdowns of all time. Penn punted the ball (Warsaw never touched it) and the ball never made it to the line of scrimmage. A Penn player then picked up the ball and ran it all the way into the endzone for a touchdown to make it 21-3. Apparently, a punt is a live ball for EITHER team if it doesn't get back to the line of scrimmage. Ruling was correct, just not something you see that often. After that, it was all but over. Being forced the throw the ball, an extremely unfortunate pick-6 on Warsaw's next drive all but sealed the door shut with Penn leading 28-3. I'm not going to sit here and act like a 31-10 game was "close". However, it wasn't as bad as the final score indicated in my opinion. Good luck to the Kingsmen this week! They are a heck of a team, and I can only imagine the slugfest that will be their matchup against Crown Point.

Which... is interesting because of how the NLC decided on the schedule change that started last year, the Week 9 opponents were selected in an effort to make sure it matched up two teams who would be less likely to face each other in back-to-back weeks as Sectional opponents. I will be interested to see if Warsaw does actuall fall to 6A. When the last enrollment process happened two years ago, they had a few abnormally low Junior and Senior class count. Those won't be included in the next calculation, and I think from what I have heard, the classes are all above 500 students currently.

I have no issues whatsoever with how the Warsaw coaching staff handles those situations.

Definitely not flaming you - and I had the same thoughts myself - but I have grown to really enjoy it. It's an offense that truly all 11 players have to do their job in order for it to be effective. And the proof is in the pudding on the success Warsaw has had running it. In the 6 seasons under Coach Curtis, they have gone 48-16, won 2 conference championships (last NLC championship before that was back in 2001), their first ever sectional championship (2019) and playing in their 5th straight sectional championship game this Friday. They have averaged 30 PPG on offense over that time, and had 20 games of 40+ points scored. It might seep boring initially, but I feel like it can grow on any fanbase. Especially when you watch it ran to perfection like it was Friday night against Carroll. It's the great equalizer in my opinion. Yes, if you get down fast and early, it makes it tricky to get back in the ball game, and has happened a handful of times for the Tigers. But the pros outweight the cons from my observation.

Fumbling definitely caused issues in a few games, yes, but has been cleaned up quite a bit over the last 3 games (Goshen, Northridge, and Carroll). What style is Penn's offense? More pass? More rush? Balanced? I ask because you say "if Penn cannot lift the top off the Warsaw D" are you implying they throw the ball more? Or that, in order for them to run the ball like they want, they'll need to hit a few big passing plays to allow that to happen? The two biggest offensive threats Warsaw faced all year (NorthWood and Carroll) - I cannot say enough positive things about how the defense containted them. The Tigers also held Concord and Northridge to their lowest point totals all season.

Since these are all along the same questions/conversation - yes, I would say Sullivan is just a more around better athlete, which is key to being the QB in "Bart Ball". I forgot he actually did play in the Northridge game as well. The QB all season before that (Brock) did a good enough job for the Tigers to win games, but I can't say they won games BECAUSE of him. Through basically 7 games worth of action, he only had 277 yards rushing. Meanwhile, on Sullivan had 18 carries for 80 yards before 3 final kneel downs against Carroll. I would say Sullivan is, athletically, on the same level as Fisher at Mishawaka. But Fisher has a lot more experience, and that is what makes him so dangerous. He's a stud. Same as Mishawaka, the Tigers offense runs through their fullback. He's had 241 carries for 1,436 yards and 16 TDs through the regular season and added 34 carries for 168 yards and 2 TDs on Friday night. He's not necssarily the biggest or the fastest, but he runs HARD and I would say absolutely yes. They've been consistent all year long. They held NorthWood (who averages 39 ppg) to their lowest total all year and as previously stated are the main reason they went 8-1 this regular season. You don't win games 8-6, 10-3, and 22-15 if you aren't consistent on that side of the ball. The Mishawaka loss was more so on the Tiger offense stalling out and not making plays and putting all the pressure on the Warsaw defense. Carroll came into the game averaging like 150 yards rushing on offense, and Warsaw held them to less than 50 yards. It wouldn't suprise me to see the game this Friday end up being something like 14-13 the way both defenses play.

Warsaw played arguably their best, complete game of football that I may have ever seen. The defense picked off Carroll's QB on the first play of the game and the offense got an early TD to take an immediate 7-0 lead. Tigers led 10-3 at halftime. The FIRST drive of the second-half was 19 PLAYS long and killed the entire 3rd Quarter (officially a 12:04 drive), with Warsaw scoring on the first play of the 4th Quarter to take a 17-3 lead. The Tigers were able to get another interception the next drive, and once they scored to make it 24-3, there just simply wasn't enough time for Carroll to make a serious bid at a comeback. Especially against that clock-killing offense known as "Bart Ball" Yes, Penn beat Mishawaka, and Mishawaka beat Warsaw - however - Warsaw's starting quarterback at the beginning of the season was hurt in Week 1 at Michigan City, and he made his return last night. It was obvious how much better the offense looks with him under center. The Tigers went 8-1 this season with a backup quarterback basically. I'm not sure the Mishawaka game would have changed by much (the Cavemen are a great team and were the better team on September 22), but he's a bigger threat to run the ball at the QB position and an overall better athlete. The Penn defense is extremely stout, but a unit that I feel like has been overshadowed all year long is the Tiger defense. As previously stated, Warsaw went 8-1 with a backup QB this season, and much of that is due to how well their defense played. Warsaw doesn't win those Chesterton, Concord, NorthWood, Wawasee, and Northridge games without their defense playing as strong as they have all year long. Should be a good game next Friday night. As previously stated, the last time these two teams played each other in 2019, the Tigers won. It marked their first victory ever over the Kingsmen, and also gave Warsaw their first ever Sectional Championship. To get that second one, this time they'll have to take down Penn on the road. Tall task!

Considering Warsaw has dominated that rivalry over the course of history (and prior to this year had won the last 8 meetings by a combined score of 312 - 85, an average score of 39-11) AND the Tigers were fresh off their two BIGGEST games (NorthWood and Mishawaka) - NO, I am not suprised at all that the Tigers were flat. A lot of energy went into the previous two weeks opponents, and then playing a team who was 1-5 on the season and they've crushed for as long as these kids were in elementary school. Happens to teams all the time. And, in my opinion, Warsaw-Wawasee is a bit of a "forced" rivalry because of them sharing the same county. Plymouth has always felt more like a spirited rival to me personally, whereas Wawasee was the neighborhood friend you liked to beat in a game of one-on-one in the driveway type thing.