US31

3 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Penn is about to play one of the weakest schedules in 6A next year. 

Just out of curiosity, I checked John Harrell....last season they ranked 24th in 6A and 33rd overall.  Not a whole lot of room to drop unfortunaltely.  As a Northern Indiana guy I feel Indiana HS football is better when Penn is relavent.  

If I'm Penn, I'd try and schedule 3-4 of these teams each year

Snider, Carroll, Homestead, Crown Point, Carmel, Cathedral, Chicago power, Ohio power, Michigan power.

4 hours ago, Hudson said:

How about 6A shift to having four different sectionals made of 8 teams and jump straight to semi state? 

Its still the same games.....unless the point is to just not give out a trophy week 2 of tournament?

Apologies if I'm reading that different than you intended.

2 hours ago, Coach Lou said:

Matt Thacker at Fairfield had done a good job turning that program in to a winner and would be a good idea for Wawasee, Elkhart or Goshen to consider him for their openings.

Don’t necessarily disagree with this at all…at least from the perspective of those three programs.  

But why would Coach Thacker want to leave a place where he can build a 3A winner in a competitive conference?  Fairfield is definitely on the way up in all sorts of ways.  

Can’t say that for Goshen and Elkhart…not sure about Wawasee.

2 hours ago, Coach Lou said:

How does a Warsaw team play their worst game of the season against what I am told is their biggest rival?

Was that the same issue when Wawasee beat Riley and when they played a close game against Northridge?

 

 

Not trying to be a smart @%%, I'm honestly asking...isn't Mishawaka their biggest rival?  At least for last many years?

I get that Wawasee and Warsaw are the two K-County schools....but outside looking in I assumed its the "Bart Ball" game that is the biggest deal.

5 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Absolutely not my claim. My claim is there are many factors. Yet in large part regardless of those factors the majority of complaint is the same old transfer, recruit, etc complaint with very little support to their argument. While you think I feel there isn't inherent advantages that is far from the truth because there is. There are inherent advantages not just to P/P but also location to major city's and large populations. More so in some states than others. I would bet you could go through each state and some of the top teams are near large population metropolitan areas. There is more to the inherent advantages than gets discussed in large part. Yet most of the complaints come down to recruiting and transfer.

None of which are what I've pointed to in any of my posts.....I agree with you these issues now extend across to most schools in Indiana.  I also understand that p/p's want as large an enrollment as they can accommodate. 

But, whether some will admit it or not, the fact that p/p enrollment is SELECTIVE rather than MANDATORY is the difference.  Public school enrollementy is mandatory, every kid in their district is an enrollee regardless of any other factors.  

3 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Now email the same guy and tell him your kid has a SAT score of 1500 and wants to get into Harvard but isn’t good at sports. I bet he tells you the same thing. Not quite the “gotcha” you were hoping for.

Now email the private school guy and tell him your kid is habitually truant…fails most his classes….doesn’t do any sports or extracurriculars….and was suspended twice last year for discipline issues…and you have so little money you can barely keep the lights on at home as a single parent.   

I bet my house you won’t get the same response from the p/p that a public school is REQUIRED BY LAW to give.

On 11/29/2023 at 4:12 PM, FastpacedO said:

 

A student that doesn't want to complete the essay required, the placement test required. More than likely a parent isn't going to fork out $16,000 (less with Financial Aid) if their child can't make the grades. Any student who won't abide by the code of conduct, most likely a parent isn't going to fork out the money if they are at risk of not aboding by the code of conduct.

By the term "risk" I mean a parent isn't going to fork out money for their child to attend a Private or Parochial school if they are at risk or in danger/capable of failing or disobeying the code of conduct. 

It’s shocking a person can type this and still claim there is no difference in the student population between p/p and public schools.

18 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Actually, it really only takes a couple of weeks of Mass announcements at the start of the registration period to hear the fact/tone that it's not a PSA and, instead a very earnest appeal for enrollments.

So ANYONE who wants to go to LCC can?  And they can stay enrolled FOREVER....no matter attendance issues, multiple suspensions, sever discipline issues?  Parents never have to pay a dollar or show up for PTC or disciplinary meetings?

Sounds sweet!  

10 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

I guess I get it, but I also don’t get it when always choosing to not split up schools from the same school district. Why would that be so illogical to send schools from the same district to 2 different sectionals. If it ever came down to it, and things were really based on north and south, why would it be such a a big deal to split schools in the same district up? Never fully understood why that is a priority of the IHSAA to keep district schools together.

Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but IHSAA does not want one district to be able to win more than one title (and that is at the sectional level).  There is no way in Hades that IHSAA would put HSE and Fishers in separate halves of the state and potetentially have both make it to LOS.

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I hate that they continue to do things like this. Force two good teams from near Indy down into the south. The Ft. Wayne guys could speak to this better, but I doubt Northrop wants to play 6A tourney ball, give them their reprieve and let them go down to 5A. That means there is no need to force anyone south. 

Portage is not competitive in 6A anymore, send them down to 5A and move Valpo up. Laf Harrison is the wild card, if they move up. I would like to keep Warsaw in 6A, give 5A either Indy Tech or Jeffersonville. That will require one of the teams you listed to move south. Give them Carmel. 

To be “technical”…Zionsville is further south than Carmel.

Carmel sits on 131st (Main) st…Zionsville sits on what would be 121st if it went all the way thru.  Both are further south than Westfield or Noblesville which both sit north of 32.  
 

HSE & Fishers always go together based on IHSAA desire to bracket schools in same district together.  They are both off of 126th on opposite sides of 69.

Of course IHSAA May decide to change things up and do something else for completely illogical reasons.🤷🏼‍♂️

Just now, FastpacedO said:

You are correct my apologies. I likely typed faster than my thoughts could keep up with. I blame it on old age! Thank you for correcting.

Definitley no need for an apology!!

On 11/27/2023 at 11:42 AM, FastpacedO said:

With Hamilton Southeastern and Fishers sectional you never know what is going to happen and this year if Carmel will be any good. Fishers and HSE are very familiar with each other and also a Rivalry.

With Westfield they have Homestead in their sectional and Noblesville is on the upswing. Personally Westfield was probably a year ahead of schedule this year. Again when you had those 2 sectionals meet in Regionals they are very familiar with each other. When it came to HSE, Fishers, and Westfield possibly playing Crown Point it came down to match-ups. HSE probably matched up to Crown Points weakness better than Fishers and Westfield. You get those HCC teams playing each other in Regional and it can be a crap shoot on who comes out because they are very familiar with each other (has nothing to do with beating each other up either).

if I'm reading this right you have the sectionals jumbled? (Will be interesting to see how these change next cycle)

Sectional 3: Fishers, HSE, Homestead, Northrop

Sectional 4: Carmel, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville

Not that it contradicts your statement about that regional....some very evenly matched good teams that know each other.👍

4 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

With what is coming out of sectional 3 and having Westfield in their own sectional Carmel has a tall task.

Warren just needs to get lucky against Center Grove. If they can build on their playoff success they may shock some people next year. But, they have Center Grove in their regional...Not liking their chances. 

Based on Snider and Laf Harrison (fairly confident assumption based on enrollement) moving up to 6A and Valpo being a "?"...is it possible for some big realignment in Sectionals 3 & 4?

Warsaw, Jeffersonville, Tech, and FW Northrop are currently the bottom  of 6A...if the right two of those drop out, you have a possibility of 2 "North" schools dropping to the "South".  I assume that would need to be Zionsville & Carmel, or HSE & Fishers.

I have a strong feeling at least one school from sectional 3 or 4 will go south next time.  Zionsville seems to be the one more often lumped in BBurg/Avon in the past.

12 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Additionally, I would be interested in knowing what percentage of a school is dedicated to this special “clientele” that you refer to. Maybe 5%? Will you let the privates carve out their special “clientele”? I’m referring to the kids who fill their extra-curriculars with robotics, chess club, multiple foreign languages and the other things they need to get into ivy league schools? I bet the offset wouldn’t benefit the publics in that case. 

Odd that you view a kid that takes rigorous academic classes and participates in various extra curricular activities as a kid that needs to be "carved out".

In my eyes those kids are valuable participants at whatever school they attend.  

The point is that at some schools...there are a large proportion of kids that won't ever attend or participate in ANYTHING...sometimes even school iteself.  Public schools have to count all these kids toward their classification numbers.  The amount of these kids at a p/p is going to very small; and,  as you had mentioned previously, at many affluent suburban publics this will also be a small number.  At some high poverty urban or rural schools...this number is high.  This is the difference between public and p/p....not that kids are "recurited" or anything else.

To be clear...I was never a proponent of SF or a class "bump" for p/p's.  I would have preferred a "clearninghouse" method of counting enrollment (i.e. kids who want to participate in ANY extracurricular - football, sports, music, student gov, or even those parasitic robotics and chess club kids you despise, would be "counted" as they fill out an inschool clearing house form.). Most schools already have a code of conduct form that extracurricular kids have to complete (or something similar) so its not a hard number to determine.  This number would be used for classificaiton.  The percentage of kids in the clearinghouse would probably be very similar between Chatard, Zionsville, Brebeuf, Carmel....but drastically different at Elkhart, IPS, South Bend, etc.

As always....the issue with p/p vs public isn't the kids they count. 

Its the kids the p/p's will never have to count. 

The kids the publics will always have to count.

Would a kid who constantly fails all his classes, is habitually absent, and often suspended for disciplinary issues; be allowed to remain at a p/p school?  The answer is he probably would have never been an applicant to begin with, but also assuredly NO...he would not be able to remain.

Public schools have to count those kids...and for some publics that is a sizeable fraction of their student body.  

9 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I think you’re missing it. As I read your post, you don’t object to the concept of the SF. Rather, it’s the definition of “success” that you find “beyond stupid.” Am I reading that correctly?

My own personal feelings....IHSAA's "success" factor was supposed to prevent a monopoly on state titles within a given class (not necessarily my goal, but I think most assumed that was IHSAA's goal).  To that end, why would a program be SF'd up a class if they did not win a state title?  So I think you are reading me correctly.  My definition of success would not simply be state final appearances...but the SF points AND a state title.  This is my opinion...others have their own.

25 minutes ago, Tippy said:

I considered it stupid a decade ago.  I said the SF was the dumbest thing the IHSAA had done since they went to class basketball.  I don't think the IHSAA wanted to have a SF, but they felt they had to because LCC and Luers had both just finished winning state 4 years in a row.  The way the SF is set up now, it could ruin your program.  I don't think it helped Pioneer very much.

I agree with most all of this.  I wouldn't go so far as to say "ruin your program", but SF shouldn't effect your classification unless you have won a title in some rather recent history (I could be talked into some variability on how long ago "recent" would be.  And yes, that means at some point I would be ok with Cathedral moving back down to 5A if they don't win a title in the next ???? many of years)

48 minutes ago, foxbat said:

... although the IHSAA, erroneously IMO, just recently changed their minds again on that.  Nonetheless, I suspect if you polled the site, most folks are OK with their OWN PROGRAM abiding by that idea; two sectionals or more and stay up.

I can't agree more with you on this part.

As for the rest....I'm not trying to make this just an AC thing.  I've always said SF shouldn't move anyone up unless they have the points AND a title.  

And also....DON'T FORGET ABOUT WEBO!!!!😁

On 11/19/2023 at 1:43 PM, foxbat said:

To be accurate, AC is making their third straight visit to LOS in a row.  Win or not; especially given that that they are facing Lutheran, again, they kind of fit the mold of the spirit of the law behind SF.  Scecina ended up in that situation the first two years that SF tracking was in place and ended up in 2A with no blue rings.

Given the way that SF works, if the argument is that a team shouldn't be bumped up if they went to LOS twice in a row and got two red rings, couldn't a team that won state in Year 1 of the cycle and only got a regional in Year 2 make a compelling argument for not being bumped in that they were just good for the one year and, at least by the numbers, actually getting worse?  SF doesn't really address problems with precision, especially with just a two-year window, and the set points, regardless of acquisition sequence is just an artifact of that.

Can't disagree more....this quote is beyond stupid.  Bumping up a program without a title is a joke.  If AC's enrollement moves them up...so be it, but to SF a team up that has not won a title is a joke.

On 11/19/2023 at 1:10 PM, slice60 said:

Adams Central may be back-to-back runner-up but still moved up to 2A. Personally, I don't like this as I feel a school without a State Championship should not be bumped up.

Can't agree more....this is beyond stupid.

"Congratulations on building a program at a small public school that is on the cusp of winning a state title.  We are now going to bump you up a class even though you haven't won that title." Sincerely, hugs ang kisses, the IHSAA

On 11/20/2023 at 11:27 AM, Coach Lou said:

What are the biggest issues facing whoever Elkhart and Goshen select as their new head football coaches?

Go back to my previous posts.  Especially on page 3(?) about coaching hires.  No one should be shocked it didn't work out for Coach W (this is NOT a reflection on someone who is by all accounts a very effective HC).  Nor should anyone be suprised that a coach who, now having seen it from the inside, decides he doesn't have the support needed to right the ship and determines he'd rather step aside than continue pretending things can get better.

Support for a program means helping the coach get the coaches he needs on staff AND in the building.  The rest is frosting....coaching hires is the minimum.  I doubt that's happening at Goshen or Elkhart.

21 minutes ago, Coach Lou said:

I looked and Goshen's enrollment has actually increased to the point they are getting close to 6A.

I know Fairfield has also seen an increase as well.

 

 

 

Goshen has a bulge from 6th thru 10th....everything younger than that is dropping.

See my other post, a lot of Goshen families moving to FF

42 minutes ago, Wedgebuster said:

What districts have benefited from the population shift?  If someone is a "loser"  then their has to be a "winner" right? 

Quite a few old Elkhart/Goshen families are currently living in Northridge, Northwood, & Fairfield districts. I'm sure some of the other adjacent districts to Elkhart/SB have also seen some of those movers.

Further, there is a HUGE amount of old NLC familites living in the north burbs of Indy.  There are lot NLC offspring on HCC/HamCo rosters down here.

6 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Is it common for a very large high school to have 2 AD's?  

 

There are several large high schools in Indiana that have 2 "AD's" sometime one for boys sports and one for girls, sometimes they just separate the sports up based on expertise/interest/workload.

Not unusual at all in 6A especially

1 hour ago, Wedgebuster said:

What's your take on that situation?  

Seems to be the same thing that has happened in South Bend, then Elkhart, now Goshen.  Correctly or incorrectly, it’s no longer seen as a desirable place to be for many.  So, those than can, move “out” to adjacent districts.

2 hours ago, BSUKingsmen said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Goshen demographic has changed drastically over the past decade or so.

Yes....but going back much more than just a decade.  Completley different community than it was around 2000.  The changes are well beyond the high school.  Questions such as "What has happened to Goshen Football/Athletics/High?" would be better phrased as "What has happened to the City of Goshen?"