US31

For decades I've thought the NLC is holding Warsaw back in most sports (mainly Football)....but I've never gotten the vibe they actually WANT to leave the NLC.  Anyone with insight see it differently?

For clarity, when I say "they" I don't mean Coach Curtis.  I mean the community and school administrators.

9 hours ago, BTF said:

You're taking this a little too personal. I'm not insulting the kid, just wondering if he can throw the football is all. Even as a coach, you have to admit, that part of a quarterback's evaluation involves his ability to distribute the ball to the receivers. Is he a great fit for his team? Absolutely, considering the scheme that his coach runs. Normally though, when seeing a quarterback ranking, it's just presumed that the ranking is based on how the player will play at the next level. I saw him play one game as a junior, hence my comment. Someone came on here and stated that he actually can throw the ball. Kudos to him. He'll make a fine college quarterback I'm sure. 

my comment was made in jest….

Not taking anything personal…I don’t know the kid…and you’ve seen him play more than I have.  Just rubs me the wrong way when we don’t appreciate the full depth and breadth of high school football, of which the option offense is alive and well.

if you can’t take a joke, and have to accuse someone making a joke of “taking it too personal”….you need to look in the mirror my friend

23 hours ago, BTF said:

I'd never rule Mishawaka out. I still remember Mishawaka 21, Snider 0.......last year's regional. And that was without throwing the football. When they did try to throw, it looked pretty dismal. Needless to say, I was a bit surprised when seeing his name listed among the top QB's in the state during the off season. 

So option QB's aren't quarterbacks anymore???  I didn't realize that rule had been changed....what would you call the kid that takes the snap from center and then makes all of the decisions that distribute the ball to his teammates in an effort to matriculate the ball down the field an score on the opponents defense?

Whatever you call him....seems this kid did that pretty well

2 hours ago, Coach Lou said:

"Scheduling out of Tradition" I would guess you are talking about the Fairfield game. I looked it up and their other non-conference game is New Prairie.

If you keep looking back you’ll see it wasn’t too long ago Goshen was playing Lake Central, St Joe, FTW Carroll, Mishawaka, Elkhart Central, etc for noncon’s.  Those were respectable matchups….New Prairie feels like that.  FF does not.

48 minutes ago, Coach Lou said:

I looked up school size and Goshen is the 2nd largest school in the conference and almost 6A just behind Warsaw.

They were the first school in the conference with field turf and have a really nice stadium. I also hear they have a fantastic weight room although I have never seen it.

Also hired Wogomon. I would think all that would show some kind of administrative support.

Coaching hires and coaches on staff in building would be my primary barometer for "support".  How easy is it for you to get the people you want on staff into the building?  Is your athletic department on board with growing your program?  Or is it still scheduling you to play small schools out of "tradition"?  

On 8/15/2023 at 3:43 PM, 00NWP said:

Its been 20ish years since Park (Brad) retired from Goshen.  I just don't understand how a program in a city the size of Goshen doesn't have a decent football team...or even a decent amount of players.  I am all in on "coaching makes a difference" but the program has had a lot of coaches since Park (one of which is currently a really good assistant at NorthWood) and nothing has changed.  Goshen has tradition, good facilities and still appears to have community support.  Anyone have any incite as to what is going on at Goshen?...and I don't think the soccer culture has anything to do with it as there is too much running involved for most football guys.

Goshen is not the same city it was 20 years ago.  Not even close.  NW, NR, FF all have a lot of former "Goshen" families walking their halls.  I don't know how many of them are football families but a few of them are.  There is a subdivision in FF that is made up of a significant amount of former "Goshen" families.

Need a large amount of admin emphasis to overcome this.....from what I understand it just isn't there.

On 8/14/2023 at 9:42 AM, 00NWP said:

Week 1 is here!  The first week is always a difficult week to judge / guess the winners of the matchups.  We don’t really know a lot about anyone at this point.  Here are my Week 1 NLC predictions:

 

Did Goshen get kicked out????😄

8 hours ago, NRRaider2001 said:

Saw this on Facebook this morning

NLC Football Standing All Time

....

 

 

 Cool data.  A little deceiving though because NLC does not break ties....I know one of the years in the 90's (92?), NW-GSH-WAR all tied....they each beat one of the others.  So some of these should have two or three teams ranked #1.

On 7/21/2023 at 9:04 AM, Bobref said:

It does a great job of defining what is meant by “defenseless,” and gives helpful examples of defenseless players.

Not having an NFHS book around....can you tell us how this is defined?  Thanks Bob👍

On 7/8/2023 at 2:28 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

To be honest Bobref, not many of the old Penn posters don't engage this site anymore. Among the falling number of fans that attend the games regularly there is unrest with the coaching overall. The defense has been fine, in the past five years it seems the D is lacking, but they cannot get a break, because the O was three and out all the time. The offensive side of the ball needs to be examined.  (this past season was slightly different)

 I know this is arm chair quarterbacking, but when Penn was running trap blocking schemes and quick hitting runs we were a much more threatening Offense. We controlled games just by the dominance of the Offensive line. In the past five years our lateral running game ends in the backfield, we looked strongest running down hill between the tackles.

Penn was dominant over the teams in the Northern part of our state because we out executed other teams, not because we were more talented.  

And you were enormous enrollment wise compared to most other schools in the state (save some MIC schools).

Now you fit right in the middle of some HCC schools and are much smaller than Carmel, BD.  Other “North” schools have closed the gap considerably

On 7/6/2023 at 4:06 PM, SB1987 said:

Bremen or John Glenn do NOT have freshmen football to my knowledge and haven't had it in idk how long. I do agree that the larger schools are a bigger problem, but we know the only school that didn't have a JV is Clay and they won't exist here in a few months.  I do think that things will work out for the best for everyone.

Again….my quote was referring to the many other sports that AREN’T football.  

40 minutes ago, foxbat said:

When you say "plays" are you meaning they are competitive or participates?

If participation, then there are certainly some others like Traders Point ... for competitive it likely depends on what we are putting as a definition of competitive vs. dominant vs. punching above weight class.  The only one in 1A that's been close to LOS without buying a ticket, outside of Lutheran, now that LCC's been SF'd, is Covenant Christian.

For comparisons in 1A:

• Traders Point's history in IHSAA, since 2018, consists of no titles.  Eliminated in the years by South Putnam, LCC, Tri-County, Carroll, and Park Tudor.
• Covenant Christian's history, since 2015, consists of a state championship in 2020.  Outside of that, bounced in sectionals by Riverton Parke, North Vermission, South Putnam, Traders Point, and Lutheran ... rather unceremoniously this last season 56-0.
• Oldenberg Academy's history since 2015, consists of no titles.  Bounced by North Decatur, West Washington, Tri, Hagerstown, and Milan.  In don't think they compete anymore in football.
• Indiana Deaf ... speaking of teams that "don't have to take everyone" ... history since 1985, consists of no titles.
• Park Tudor's history, since 1985, consists of three sectional titles in 2002, 2005, 2022. 

For the record...any SF discussion I particpate in is supposed to begin with DON'T FORGET ABOUT WEBO!!!  🤪

My issue with 1A is you could very well end up with a yo-yo situation of P/Ps moving up and down "taking turns" in 1A.  Lutheran, LCC, CC...

Shrinking 1A down to 32 would bump some of these schools up to 2A.  I don't think its unrealistic to move any other P/P up into the 33-?? 2A.

18 hours ago, tango said:

Me too. I'm okay with no p/p in 1A for football, but not other sports like basketball, baseball, etc. 

I would reiterate, I think that should only happen if we shrink 1A to smallest 32.  

2 minutes ago, tango said:

There are some weak sectional fields out there across some sports. I would never support a system where a program like GS girls tennis gets bumped up for multiple consecutive sectional titles while having never won a regional. 

While I am personally in favor of the following:

• a 4 year minimum, "rolling" SF.
• 1a should be smallest 32, 6a biggest 32.  Divide rest evenly by 4.
• No P/P in single A class of 32 smallest.

I would also piggy back on your comment above and add that (IMHO) no program should be SF'd up unless they have points AND a state title.  Something just doesn't seem right about SF if you are moving programs that have not actually won a title.  I maybe wrong about that...but its how I feel.

13 hours ago, Titan32 said:

US31, tell me more about the "clearinghouse" method of counting athletes.

Clearinghouse method was basically a system where you only count the number of kids that participate in ANY extracurricular activities.  This wouldn't be difficult to do...most schools have some form of "Code of Conduct" that students have to sign in order to participate in any extracurricular (sports, band, etc), so the data isn't gonna be hard to grab.  This number would be use for classificaiton, not the DOE "enrollement" number.  This does a more accurate job of classifying based upon the size of the "participant" population in the school....and it doesn't matter if that school is public, P/P, charter, Hogwarts, etc

The real enrollement disarity the P/P's enjoy is they don't have the (please forgive me for using this term....its the best descriptor, I can think of) "dead weight" part of the student body.  They have no mandatory enrollees.  ALL public schools have kids they HAVE to enroll by law.  These kids may contribute nothing to the school in terms of extracurricular participation (for a variety of reasons), but they are still counted in enrollement.  

Now what that percentage of "never gonna participate in anything" enrollee's actually calculates to will vary a LOT.  

At Zionsville, Cathedral, University, West Lafayette....its probably a small percentage of the overall student body.

At IPS, South Bend Schools, etc...its probably a LARGE percentage.

14 hours ago, JustRules said:

I'm good with a 4-year cycle as well, but then you open yourself up to a team winning 4-straight state titles. You have to be willing to accept that.
 

Not if its a "rolling" 4 year cycle.  The year they acrue enough points they would bump up the next season.

Not to dig up any old dead horses...but these so called academics need to take statistics 101 again....As has been pointed out ad naseum....The advantage in P/P demographics is not who they count.....but who they NEVER have to count. 

The fact this went unstated in the article is due to one of more of the following:

• Poor quoting of the researchers statements from the Indystar.
• Ignorance of the researchers on the issues relavent to their study
• Some type of bias in study's collection methods.

A "clearinghouse" method of counting students would account for this, and may have possibly precluded any need for SF.

31 minutes ago, Trojan67 said:

So, if your mad about the NLC not wanting to blow things up, then does the NIC tell the SB schools that they have to go independent or find a new conference? Because that is what I think people are trying to say without saying it. 

All I'm saying is that whatever problems exist with current NIC schools....those problems are not the current NLC schools' to solve.  

At no point am I "mad" about anything.  I'm just trying to point out the reality of how these decisions are made, and all of these schools should be welcome to make the best decisions for their own student athletes.  Sometimes those best interests are common to other schools...sometimes they aren't.  

1 hour ago, Trojan67 said:

I said this before in a past post, but I think there needs to be restructuring within the conferences to make everyone more or less happy. Here is my take on the whole situation. 

Penn, Mishawaka, New Prairie, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, and Elkhart

Plymouth, Wawasee, Northridge, Northwood, Adams, Riley, Washington

Just my take, Penn going independent just increases driving. Restructuring the conferences is a better solution. You have 7 in the conference, allows you to schedule 3 non conference opponents. Is it a perfect solution? No. But it is a happy medium. 

Why should the NLC blow up their conference to help SB area schools????

This would be stupid for Ply/Waw/NR/NW.  Say bye bye to a large amount of your athletic gate, and quite a few of your JV/Frosh contests in a lot of sports.  Several MUCH smaller athletic programs want nothing to do with the SB schools for those exact reasons.  Why should 4A NLC schools want to hitch themselves to those SB schools????

You could argue that the NLC is holding back Warsaw, but they have a much better situation in the NLC than they would in a South Bend/Elkhart conference.  

Been several years since I've had an oppourtunity to talk to Coach James...but spent MANY summers working Belden Line Camp with Coach James back in the day.  He is one of the good ones, and there wasn't just a little bit of knowledge I absorbed from him....both X&O's and just how to coach kids.

Best of Luck Coach!!

From the Star article, they mention "safety"...apparently too many injuries are occuring during rebounds after free throws.  Eliminating that occasional extra rebound is "safer"

Total clown explanation

15 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I get it, I just think that if we do go independent that we need some filler on the schedule to help rest, recover and get the depth opportunities to play.

Move the Mishawaka game back to the end of the season, put the rotating south bend school game the week before it.

Play Valpo week 1 like always.  

Game 1: Valpo

Game 2: Northwood/Concord/Northridge/Warsaw (all competitive local teams) 

Game 3: Marian/St. Joe

Game 4: Snider

Game 5: La Jeff

Game 6: Westfield

Game 7: Elkhart

Game 8: Riley/Adams/Washington

Game 9: Mishawaka

Penn has the chance of dropping 7 of those games.  If Penn wins 7 of those games, I think they are well prepared for the playoffs.

I beleive all HCC teams are only non-con weeks 1 & 2. 

Penn is a nice fit in the HCC in terms of school size, demographics, etc.  Just not too close.  Would be nice to see them schedule some HCC teams.

Penn to the NLC does nothing for Penn on the big stage. 

Is it better than current NIC situation....yes. 

Is playing Northwood, Northridge, Goshen, & Concord preparing you to beat the best schools in the Region, FW, and Indy...emphatically No.

Go Indendent, and I'm sure with in a year or so you could schedule Mishawaka, Warsaw, Elkhart, and a couple DAC schools, along with your marquee matchups with Carmel, Cathedrawl, Brother Rice, etc.  It seems like you could get CG on a schedule too.

Penn to the NLC makes zero sense for the NLC or Penn.

12 hours ago, MarshallCounty said:

From what I heard, the 3 schools are sending their JV to play them. 

Does TV not have a JV?

Did Clay have a JV and/or Frosh team last year?

If not, then I can completley understand a school dropping them.  Why schedule a team that would not allow your own JV and Frosh to have a game that week?