US31

Open question…..

Would your opinion of neutral site Regional/SS games change if tournament was seeded….rewarding better seeds with the home games?

2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Which... is interesting because of how the NLC decided on the schedule change that started last year, the Week 9 opponents were selected in an effort to make sure it matched up two teams who would be less likely to face each other in back-to-back weeks as Sectional opponents.

I will be interested to see if Warsaw does actuall fall to 6A. When the last enrollment process happened two years ago, they had a few abnormally low Junior and Senior class count. Those won't be included in the next calculation, and I think from what I have heard, the classes are all above 500 students currently.

Looking at DOE data for Warsaw schools you are right...those two small classes are huge outliers....in fact I'd argue they will be alot closer to 2,200 in coming years than 2,000.

Northridge probably still has at least one more cycle in 4A....maybe more.  They need to leap frog 4 schools...even with Dwenger dropping back down the schools ahead of them aren't necessarily shrinking either..maybe Kokomo, but Kokomo has almost 100 kids over them already.

2 hours ago, Coach Lou said:

This games shows how strong the NLC is as neither of these teams were top 2 in the conference.

While it might be common with 1A-3A....how many conferences have schools spread somewhat evenly over 6A-4A??  Without any of them being P/P.

Two 6A, Two 5A, four 4A?  Maybe its more common than I think but it seems unusual...

NIC is a mess, so that is what it is....but definitley a big advantage for a good 4A program to be playing 5A & 6A schools all year.

1 hour ago, npcougar15 said:

Serious question for the Northwood faithful. If NW DOESN'T win tomorrow night, how much faith does the Panther community have in their coaches and program or at least the scheme they are implementing? To go from nearly a unanimous pick to make it to state for 4A north to 9-3 and not even winning a share of the conference title (where there wasn't any team head and shoulders above in the NLC) would be pretty devastating. 

Just trying to drum-up conversation. NW could route Northridge and easily be playing after thanksgiving and all is forgiven for the early season mishaps. This game just seems like a monster turning point for the Panther program

So because NW lost to 6A (and potential sectional champ) Warsaw, and lost by less than a score (and could lose tomorrow) to 4A #9 Northridge...the community should throw the coaching staff under a buggy based on the preseason predictive abilities of random people? 

Bold strategy Cotton...

For the life of me I can't understand why they can't publish this....I looked all over last week and nothing.  A lot of people would like to plan for potential attendance, or just plan for attending "their" classes games.

My understanding is this can happen after a touchback and before a PAT....correct? are there other instances?  

On 10/28/2023 at 2:39 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Well, almost ten or so years ago, Washington found a loop hole in the rule that a missed field goal from any location on the field the ball is spotted at the opposing teams 20yd line....Now, Washington had a kicker with a heck of a leg, but I don't know why or if teams put a returner back to field the field goal attempt. But, they would line up for field goals on their own 40....so, if you cannot punt just try a field goal lol. 

This isn't a "loop hole", its called a scrimmage kick. But the part in bold above is wrong....

The rules that govern a punt are almost identical to the rules that govern a FG....they are "scrimmage kicks".  If a scrimmage kick goes into the EZ in high school football, it is a touchback.  If it doesn't...it can be returned, just like a punt.  But it's not a touchback becausae its a missed field goal...it HAS to cross the GL, just like a punt.

Ironically...(given this thread topic) I beleive the longest play in Goshen High School football history is a 99 yard FG return for TD by future Boiler Todd Stelma.....against who??.... the Warsaw Tigers.

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I could see using Sagarin as a guide, but not the be all end all. I'm sure the IHSAA could form a committee with a group of volunteers who'd be more than happy to determine seeds. I think solely using the Sagarin will encourage some coaches, not all, to run up scores when they shouldn't. 

No complaint from me on using something else....as long as it doesn't include "polls".

3 hours ago, AW0352 said:

Just a gut feeling? 

There seems to be more "talk" amongst coaches....that plus the Indystar article just gives me a feeling.  Wont know for sure until IFCA starts meeting again in the off-season.

Unlike last time the IFCA made a propasal, all the "pieces" seem to be in place now (mercy rule being the big one).

ETA: My personal preference would be to seed the sectionals top to bottom using Sagarin, with better seeds getting the first home game.  Then just playing the rest of the tournament as we have been.  I have no idea what would actually be proposed by IFCA (previous was just seed the top 2 teams in sectional).

I actually think you'll see some type of sectional seeding in the next few years.

35 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

Yep, you're right. Both Lutheran and AC will bump up to 2A if they make it to state. 1A should definitely be wide open next year.

No one should ever get SF'd up a class if they HAVEN'T previously won a state title.  Requirement to bump should be points AND a title.

On 10/23/2023 at 12:03 PM, temptation said:

 

Westfield @ Carmel:  This one REALLY intrigues me.  These two used to play early in the season annually and now Westfield may actually be the big brother. 

 

When????? I'm old(!) and you'd have to go way back before I can remember....

Does a tipped ball negate defensive holding on a reciever?  

I've always thought Penn would be a perfect fit in the HCC, across all sports....just way too far away.

I'd agree that football wise they'd be right in the middle.  Penn vs Noblesville would be a very interesting match-up, for a lot of reasons.

18 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Just out of curiosity, how long has this term been in use? It’ll be 17 years next May since I’ve been in high school. Not saying you are wrong or anything. If it was in use by the IHSAA at the time, I’m just surprised that the term wasn’t used by my team and coaches and that it was never used in any conversations I had with opponents or overheard when I participated.

I was a track athlete in the 90s and coached it from 2000….”seeding” was a commonly used term my entire life.

On 10/14/2023 at 10:22 PM, Frozen Tundra said:

This research had me wishing 1A had 32 teams. I was drooling at how much better 5A looks. Wouldn’t be beneficial to my Columbus East Olympians these days though. 😂

I’m not sure you were referencing my post…but just in case, and  to be clear what I have said before:

I’m suggesting 1A and 6A should be 32 teams….divide the rest up evenly.  
 

FURTHER….rolling 3-4 year SF…and no P/P in 1A.  The No p/p in a 32 school 1A go hand in glove…no point in doing one without the other.  This prevents two P/P from yo-young up and down in and out of the now smallest 1A.  Not sure this would happen, but prevents it from occurring.

So if a "covered" TE pegs....he would be locked?  I think this is how I'm reading the above....

The knee pad thing is the hardest for coaches because of the way the pants are made....because the pants may be getting on in years....for smaller schools, you may have several longer kids and only so many "long" pants....its hard.  We always appreciate a crew that will work with us on knee pads. 

For the life of me I can't imagine playing without my knees covered...but the kids are used to it because we still allow "Contact" all summer in just shells.  I don't get how one is allowed but on Friday night its a huge safety issue.

I know the men in stripes hate the issue as much as the coaches, its the most frustrating of the "uniform" rule issues...(outside of opponents that still wear white numbers on white jerseys.😡)

I’ve shared my opinion in other threads, but to summarize what I would do with my magic classification wand, if I had it.

1A: smallest 32 (no P/P)

6A: largest 32

2A-5A: divide them up evenly…spread out the byes based on some metric if you wish

Rolling 3 or 4 year SF cycle.  I could lean to either one.

Would you have to reclassify and move some teams around every year? Yes.  Is this insurmountable? No.  

There should not be any P/P in 1A.

Fire away if you must…..

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Simple and honest answer I don't know. I have not heard any news or grumblings coming from the Athletic department. Penn's best two options are the DAC or Independence in Football only. If the South Bend Schools and the Catholic Schools want to stay a conference, Penn can stick with them for all other sports. 

I think an Independent schedule will either see Penn broker a deal with local schools to keep them on the schedule or for them to fall off completely. If the South Bend schools don't want to play Penn on a rotational basis, we could either see Adams full time or not at all. The same could be said about Marian and St. Joe, Penn should play them either on a rotational basis or both if the South Bend Schools opt out. Keep Elkhart on the schedule. Valpo does not seem to be going anywhere and Mishawaka needs to go back to being the last game of the season. There is more hype when both teams are 7-1 or 8-0. Snider, Carroll and Homestead could be a rotational thing. Add one of the Blue Bloods of Indy (Carmel, BD, Cathedral, Center Grove), and add one of the teams from the HCC. Lastly add a team from out of state. 

Valpo

Indy School

Out of state school

South Bend team

Elkhart

HCC team or filler

Fort Wayne Team

Marian/St. Joe

Mishawaka

This would be a loosing season for us based on the last 5ish years. But, a Penn team that can have a winning season or beat one or two of the "out of conference" games people will pay more attention. 

For this to work (which is probably a great plan for Penn unless they can somehow get in the DAC), HCC has to be week 1 or 2.  HCC is all conference play once Week 3 comes around.  I'd love to see Penn play some HCC teams...in fact I think they are a perfect HCC fit across all sports, just too far away.

Now....how long the HCC will stay in its current form is anyone's guess. 

4 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Plain and simple, Warsaw is a 6A school playing 3A and 4A teams and having their way during the regular season and then playing 6A schools in the playoffs and are one and done. If the Warsaw community is fine with that, more power to them, if not, get better by playing 6A schools more frequently. Simple solution, but won’t be done

To be fair…I don’t think there are anymore 3A schools in the NLC.  Your point is spot on…but it’s 4A and 5A.

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

Homestead got wasted by Snider for years and Carroll was just never good enough to even play Snider the amount of times Homestead did. Insert both teams into the SAC in 2015. People now see Homestead and Carroll as Snider's equals. It's easier to become a better team when you know what the benchmark is during the regular season versus your last game of the season. Better competition for Warsaw will result in a better program.

I see his argument as "Well, we're gonna lose to those teams no matter what....so we definitley don't want it to happen twice in the same year."

It doesn't seem Carroll and Homestead subscribe to that logic.  Not too many years ago, Warsaw would have mopped the floor with Carroll.  Last year, Carroll was playing after Thanksgiving having knocking off a loaded HSE squad.  

26 minutes ago, 00NWP said:

You are correct...they have only ever won 1 sectional championship their history.  If they were to move to a conference playing the likes of a Snider or Carroll during the year...they will consistently lose those games.  With loses comes smaller numbers in a program.  I can remember a time when a team like NorthWood had almost double the amount of kids on the sidelines compared to Warsaw.  Success builds a program.  Losing regular season games does not make you better in the long run...winning does.  If Warsaw was better than the NLC and thought it would help them...they would have left along time ago.  And this is just talking about football...Warsaw would also get dominated in almost every sport moving conferences. 

Well....perhaps they'll be back in 5A soon....and Snider might SF up. 👍

Hoping to succesfully dodge your peer sized opponents just seems to be an odd way to define a successful program.  If Warsaw was playing some of the FtW powers and Penn in their Non-Con games I'd be sympathetic to that argument (and to his credit, Coach Curtis has definitley improved their non-con opponents).  

23 hours ago, 00NWP said:

Is the NLC really holding Warsaw back?  Up until the Curtis years, Warsaw did not have a whole lot of success.  Would Warsaw benefit leaving a conference in which they can currently compete for a conference championship and leave for a hypothetical / or real conference toward Fort Wayne...I am just speaking on football.  If I were a player or parent, I wouldn't want to lose multiple regular season games a year...just to face the same schools in the playoffs and probably lose there as well.  Warsaw is having success on the gridiron right now, however, all schools go through a slump and I feel they would regret their decision in the long run.  I know people say, playing better competition throughout the year prepares a team for the playoffs...and that is true...however, that is only true if you are playing other schools than you face during the year. Just my two thoughts on the matter coming from someone whom would not like to see Warsaw leave the NLC as it is one of the best places to watch a game as they have hands down the best consession stands in the area...im talking to you guy who runs the grill!

But have they had ANY success OUTSIDE the NLC???  I only see once sectional champtionship as far back as 1994??  A coach Curtis team beat Penn, and then lost to MVill in the regional.  Is that one singluar sectional trophy in almost 30 years success??? 

They have almost always went to FtW for sectionals....those are the teams Warsaw needs to beat to make a tournament run.  If you look back, their season has ended in the sectionals to either a FtW area team or Penn.  Currently in Sectional 2, they need to beat Penn, Carroll, or both.  There aren't many teams in the NLC that are preparing them for that.  Being in a FtW conference would do exactly that. 

Unless the goal is to be the big fish in the NLC pond....in which case, carry on.  I don't begrudge then that at all....their community, their school, more power to them.