BDGiant93

10 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

You’d be better off at North Central. Don’t let the fact that they have a large FRL % fool you, NC has one of the best theater and drama programs in the state. And it’s free!

Ben Davis does too! Great theater and drama program. Great choir and band and ROTC. There's lots here along with a world-class career center...just like North Central.

15 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Good analysis. Appreciate it.

@temptationwill spin this in a way that shows a low SES can be overcome by a mega-enrollment only to sit on his hands and not be able to explain the decades long struggles of North Central, Pike, and Lake Central who have SES similar to Warren and Ben Davis as well enrollment. Rinse, wash, repeat. 

 

Pike yes. North Central, Lake Central no. They don't have the same SES.

🍿This popcorn is good.

21 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

...which probably explains NC's dominance in tennis.

Side note- "North Central" has to be the least creative name that a school could possibly have. 

Washington Central would be the township name + Central. I'm thinking since there was already George Washington HS in Indy they probably went with North Central instead. 

In the 1990's, Wayne Township opened an elementary school and had a naming competition. They chose...North Wayne.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Double Check My Math:

1990's:

2-0 vs CG

9-1 vs WC

8-2 vs CAR

 

2000's:

7-6 vs CG

6-11 vs WC

6-4 vs CAR

 

2010's:

5-8 vs CG

5-8 vs WC

5-7 vs CAR

Looks about right.

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Avon and Brownsburg have definitely moved the needle and at the expense of Ben Davis to a degree, but do you see either of them consistently supplanting Ben Davis as the west side football school? I don’t.

Remains to be seen. At this point, they haven't been able to turn their recent regular season success into large scale postseason success. There are many factors for this, but BD remains the one that's still winning titles. That, of course, can change. 

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

That is attributed to the rise of Center Grove and Carmel’s Renaissance.

The rise of the MIC. Everybody caught up.

Just now, Footballking16 said:

I don’t believe BD is growing any more either, but people have been moving out of the city for 30 years and it hasn’t affected Ben Davis and its ability to consistently be successful in football. Been hearing for years the HCC is going to supplant the MIC and well, we’re waiting.

We're getting industrial development on the Westside around the old airport terminal, but residential is going mostly in Hendricks County.

21 hours ago, DT said:

Would you be jealous if IMG scheduled Warren, Carmel or BD as part of its "Tour of the Midwest?"

To my knowledge, there's no room on the BD schedule for several years. That was part of locking up the two Hendricks County 6A schools.

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Been hearing this for 10 years. The 4 best 6A programs in the state are Ben Davis, Carmel, Center Grove, and Warren and there’s a considerable gap between the rest. Warren just hired a hall of fame coach....away from one of of the fastest rising, fastest growing school corporations in the state. Tells you everything you need to know. Ben Davis was an extremely young team last year that caught fire down the stretch. They are probably the biggest threat to Center Grove next year.

BD and Warren have been consistently good for the last 30-40 years and urban sprawl isn’t something new. Look for BD and Warren to continue to stay good for as long as they so wish.

BD is done growing. There's not much more land out here. There's a few spots here and there, but housing developments are not going in at the pace they were maybe 25-30 years ago when the BD enrollment went from the mid 2000's to the 4000's.

25 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Yeah I wondered that too. Coach Curtis and Coach Kirschner have been involved in Indiana High School football for a LONG time... perhaps they have a good relationship (I truly have no idea)

And I agree with your 3rd and 4th sentence. Do I expect Warsaw to be competitive? I do not believe that can be answered at this time. The kids that will be seniors and juniors in those games will be playing at the two Warsaw middle schools this season and on the Freshman team this upcoming year. But I certainly hope it builds excitement and buy in to the program from those in the community to understand what it will take for their football program to be elevated (and not get completely embarrassed in 2024 and 2025)

This is a game you put on your schedule when you want to take a step forward in the state tournament. I know I get a lot of flak from time to time for trumpeting the MIC, but there's nothing like high-level MIC football in this state. The players are all fast and mostly big and all strong. It gives you an idea of the speed of the game at that level. That way you don't get shellacked when you end up meeting a MIC team for real in the tourney. Every bit counts. Upsets happen. Bravo to Warsaw for stepping up.

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

So, what prepares the team better for the tournament? Playing the same (good) teams year after year? Or having to scout, plan and adjust for teams you don’t see regularly, thinking that they will be worthy opponents, but not really knowing that when you schedule several years in the future? It would seem to me that the latter would be preferred, since that is probably what you’re doing in the upper levels of the tournament.

I don't disagree with that. I just wouldn't expect he'll have an open spot on the schedule going into the year as they have had the last few years at WC. That's my point. If he can do a long term deal with someone, he tends to do that. At BD, they were able to lock down Avon for a long time. Before Pike joined the MIC, they were locked in for a long time. I think Tech signed a long deal. He really wanted Brownsburg, but that didn't get done until he was leaving/out the door. Just saying that this is a trend with him. Nail down that schedule.

One thing I think you can expect from Coach Kirschner at Warren is schedule continuity. At least when he was at BD, he wanted long term stability in that regard. Good for Warsaw wanting to play Warren. That's always a problem for the MIC's Big 4. 

Will it be a great game? Dunno, but Warsaw will be better for playing up in competition. At least they'll know that they tried. Wonder if there's some Kirschner/Warsaw connection in coaching friendships, etc.

On 4/23/2021 at 3:35 PM, Bears62 said:

They were “asked to leave” or just straight up booted, can’t remember which. Jeff would be pretty competitive if they rejoined, Harrison is probably a little bit better than Noblesville and Franklin Central. Can’t ever see it happening though sadly

Sadly, I've slept since then and could not remember all the circumstances.

https://usatodayhss.com/2012/hoosier-crossroads-affiliation-coming-to-an-end-for-harrison-lafayette-jeff-mccutcheon

6 hours ago, DT said:

The discussions regarding conference changes center around two primary isssues

Competitive balance and travel

The MiC is no different

When Pike and LC came into the conference, both were viewed as a competitive upgrade from the TH schools and travel was certainly reduced significantly.  When the HCC booted the Lafayette schools, it was understood that HCC conference members felt that the Laf schools were not consistently competitive in football and put an unnecessary travel burden on the Indy schools

The NCC is spread out across the entire state from east to west.  It is loaded with schools that have deemphasized football and are not likely to reinvest in the sport.  So outsiders are constantly trying to reinvent the conference to improve its competitive profile and reduce travel

Football is important in Tipp County.  Not so much elsewhere in the conference

If jEff or Harrison have designs on competing at the state level, they will need to move eventually to upgrade their schedules to prepare for tournament play

 

Jeff and Harrison were in the HCC and left.

1 hour ago, DE said:

I had no idea the MIC was only 25 years old.  Cool info BD.  What conference/s were Carmel/CG/LN in directly before joining the MIC?  Thank you.

Carmel was in the Olympic. Center Grove was South Central, and LN was in the CSAC. (Which BD was actually in a very long time ago).

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

Can you directly answer my question?

Why? It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the great conference fairy isn't going to disband a conference unless the schools within that conference want to disband it. The IHSAA has no control over conference lineups or whether schools decide to come together and form or disband a conference. The NCC lineup has changed here or there, but it's been around since 1926. What's the urgency to get rid of a conference that's apparently working for its members?

To answer your question, football, basketball, volleyball, baseball, and softball all benefit from conference membership because of scheduling. If you're in a conference, those are games you don't have to schedule. That's one of the main reasons, for example, that the MIC was formed in 1996. BD/WC/NC were all independents and having trouble getting games in state. They got Carmel/CG/LN to defect from their conferences and the 'Hautes joined the next year and you have a conference. 

These are decisions made at the school level...not by some great conference god or goddess.

Why is Tech in the NCC? Because the NCC and Tech want to be.

11 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

How many of the other sports spend a majority of their season in conference play?

Is there some outcry among the members of the NCC to disband it? I haven't heard it. Also, why do people fixate on conference lineups? If the schools want to change, all they have to do is drop out or vote out someone. It's not unprecedented. In high school, there's no great conference fairy who governs what conferences can exist or continue to exist.

2 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

 

The NCC just needs to be broken up.

It works fine for other sports. If the schools stay together, who's going to break it up?

1 hour ago, Grover said:

Why do we keep using Tech as an example?  Obviously they have issues.  Nobody is denying that.  

I think I combined a couple of threads there. 

11 hours ago, Grover said:

You can't control your enrollment but you can control how hard you work.

This is a slap in the face to the coaches at Tech and schools like it who work darn hard to put a good product on the field yet face an entirely different set of circumstances than Coach Moore does. Heck, the Ben Davis and Warren staffs face entirely different circumstances than Coach Moore. 

What Coach Moore has done has been remarkable and I don't know how he coaches track AND football. Those are two HUGE sports and he's doing both and succeeding in both. He's a great coach for sure, but the idea that because Tech doesn't have a lot of success that those coaches aren't working hard is ridiculous. They do work hard, and their students need them in their lives.

22 hours ago, DT said:

Correct.  I have proposed a change to the geography to an east-west alignment for 6A only.  

AGREE with this.

15 hours ago, temptation said:

Nick Saban could take the reins at Tech and it simply would not matter.

 

I would think that it would. You'd have parents "moving" to the district to be coached by Saban...I mean switching jobs and ending up at Tech or having to help grandma or Aunt Matilda.

This is an interesting discussion. The issue isn't numbers to me, it's success. There is no success factor that can graduate the megas out of a class, so I would advocate some sort of "equality matrix" or something that would move down teams in classes that have enrollment but do not have football success. 

I'd do that, and I'd seed 6A 1-32. Forget the Sectional/Regional/Semi-State model.

None of this will happen though. 

On 4/17/2021 at 9:04 PM, Bears62 said:

Since the creation of 6A Indiana hs football, Indy schools have won all 8 state championships. Prior to that, Indy schools had won 12 straight state titles in 5A. Is there even a plausible solution out there to balance the playing field? It would seem silly to create a “7a” that consists of roughly 16 or so of the largest Indy schools, not to mention it sounds far less exciting. But Indy’s domination has gotten to the point where you can’t help but think that maybe something should be done. Indy schools have won 20 in a row of the largest class state titles, and there is really no end in sight.

Penn and Snider were 2 of the perennial powers in Indiana for decades, yet they have both seen a recent decline that they have not experienced before. Yes I know Snider won a 5A title 4-5 years ago, but they are firmly stuck in 5a and don’t really seem to be anywhere near of fielding a state champion caliber team anyways. Merrillville had a really talented team last year with a couple really good studs, yet their 2 losses last year both came in lopsided games to Chatard and Westfield (tremendous football teams who were both undoubtedly in the top 5 regardless of class). What is it going to take to see a 6a state champion out of 6a? I can honestly say I don’t think it will be anytime soon.

What i want to know is do people think the creation of a “7a” ,consisting of the largest Indy schools, the answer or even something that would ever be considered? I want nothing more than for literally anyone outside of Indy to win a 6a title for the sake of parity within the state but I just don’t see anything being done about it anytime soon. Then what would you do about the large non-Indy schools who are in the top 16 in student population? Do they join 7a due to their enrollment or stay in 6a and have a very significant numbers advantage over the rest of the remaining 6a schools? It would feel wrong having Penn with 3300+ students in 6a and have Perry Meridian with 2351 students in 7a just due to their location.

 

So what happens when the same schools dominate 7A? Do you just throw BD, WC, CG, and Carmel in 8A?

22 hours ago, JustRules said:

I know Wayne, Washington, Warren all have excellent career and technology centers that are also open to neighboring districts. They have everything from "shop" classes to engineering to business to culinary arts to beautician. Students who attend these classes learn valuable skills and unique college prep opportunities.

Very true.

5 minutes ago, Lysander said:

That’s pretty accurate.  They are considered a private school whereas Chatard, Ritter, Roncalli and Scecina are Catholic Archdiocese schools (ie. funded in part by and beholden to the Indianapolis Catholic Archdiocese).

As to the question above regarding vocational classes, I’m pretty confident that they don’t have “shop” class, etc. but does any single high school have that these days?  Serious question.  One of my kids took a cooking class at one time I believe.  

Which leads me to a story.  I tried to sign up for a Home Ec class back in the day because I wanted to learn to cook and was called into the Office for it.  It was literally scandalous.  They never let me take the class as it turned out.  I can barely warm an egg these days.

BD has several traditional "shop" classes, but most if not all are part of the Area 31 Career Programs. As far as FACS (Family and Consumer Sciences), many of those have been adopted into the Area 31 Career Programs as parts of specific programs (and business classes for personal finance classes, etc) again as they are not required courses any longer at the high school level to my knowledge.