BTF

Notre Dane didn't belong in that game? ND gifted Clemson an injury to Julian Love. Clemson beat ND in the second quarter and second quarter only. When Love was in, they hung with the "best team ever" for three quarters.................and lost by a smaller margin than Alabama did. I understand that ND isn't Tier 1. But you are over-exaggerating their insignificance.

Georgia has barely beaten ND twice in the last three years. Not sure why the gap there is so HUGE.

Or is it that football is just more important down there? Are there really more athletes in the south than there are in Chicago and Detroit?

But what have they done lately? I think Clemson and Alabama are in a league of their own. I'll put LSU in there with there recent championship and good recruits coming in. If Ohio State wouldn't have completely blown it against Clemson this year, I'd put them in Tier 1..............but they laid an egg and now have to wait until next season to prove themselves. No one remembers the better team, only the team that won. Ohio State is very close in my opinion.

Can't argue that, but saying that ND hasn't been a player since the 80's is really just brain dead. Any Top 20 program is a player. Who is in your Tier 1? Up until January, I just had Clemson and Alabama. I'll put LSU there now that they got their championship. I'd like to see Ohio State win a playoff game before they get inclusion. Oklahoma is on ND's level.............at best. I've got Clemson, Alabama, and LSU...................then Ohio State, Georgia, Notre Dame, and Oklahoma.

Huh?

24/7 Sports has 31 five star players. Nineteen of them are going to Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, LSU, and Ohio State. That's hard to compete with.

Don't forget about the 2002 team. They were undefeated before bowing out in OT to the eventual state champs. I want to give the Snider team of 2004 some props. They received state championship treatment here in Fort Wayne even though they didn't win state. Sports writers dubbed them as the best team to ever come out of Fort Wayne. That's quite a statement when you look at Snider 86', Dwenger 90', and Snider 92'. What hurt Snider that year was losing their D1 running back during week 9 to a broken ankle injury. When he was healthy, I felt like they were the best team in the state that year..........right in the middle of the Warren Central dynasty. If I remember correctly, he was averaging a touchdown every four times he touched the ball. They gave WC a game even without him losing 35-23. Some felt like Warren got a couple of lucky bounces their way that propelled them to the championship. Conclusion. Snider, 2004, first 8 weeks, could have rumbled with any Indiana team to ever grace the field.

I don't think it's far fetched at all. If Spegal was black, he would have had multiple offers. By and large, there is a perception of what a running back should look like. I think Indiana got a good one in Charlie.

Certainly one of the greatest games of all time. I just don't call it one of my favorites. There's nothing fun about losing a 28 point lead and having 35 unanswered dropped on you in the process (if I remember correctly the score went from 42-14 to 42-49). To me there is nothing more disappointing than having a lead and losing it.

It's fun re-watching that game. I tend to forget how great Dunbar was. Maybe the best back ever to come out of Indiana. He was never quite the same after his knee injury in his second season with the Saints. The Carmel game was just disappointing. Snider shot themselves in the foot with unforced errors. It still took overtime for Carmel to defeat them. Best team in the state that year, but will never get the credit for it. Favorite game: 2002 vs Homestead. Second round of sectionals. Snider had a bye week and was 9-0. Homestead had just dismantled Marion 65-0 and was 10-0. Snider wins on a last second field goal 23-21. I thought Homestead was the best team in the north that year, but Snider had two weeks to prepare. Snider ended up bowing out to the Giants at state 31-7. Maybe one of Snider's best 10 teams of all time, but definitely not top 5. Second favorite game: Snider 23, Warsaw 20 in OT (2001). Warsaw knew they had to put their best foot forward to take out Snider. But I think they really wanted Penn that year. The year before, the Kingsmen took them out 10-7 at Freed Field. Warsaw had one of the most imposing offensive lines I've ever seen at the high school level. They bullied their way to a 14-0 lead, but Snider was persistent. Warsaw led the entire game until Snider kicked a field goal in overtime. Snider went on to wax Homestead and Carmel. Then got waxed themselves by Valpo. I often wonder it Warsaw was the best team in the north that year. Did they overlook Snider?

All bets are off when a school doubles it's enrollment size. The kids still need to be coached though. With the right coach, Elkhart will endanger Penn's stronghold on the area. And Josh Shattuck might be THAT coach. His seven year track record shows that his teams get better year after year. If that trend continues, Elkhart is a 10 win team this year...........at the minimum. Elkhart's stock continues to rise.

For what it's worth, Homestead was healthy when they played Snider. They weren't the same team after they lost Braeden Hardwick to injury.

Clearly you have no idea who I like and who I don't. The only time I root against Dwenger in a 14 game season is when they are playing Snider. They have a beautiful new stadium and I couldn't be happier for the program to have the opportunity to play games on their home campus after many years of traveling to Zollner. I just can't stack it up against the best in the state due to low seating capacity on the the visitors side. I sincerely believe they will improve on that as funds come available. When they play Snider, it will be a great atmosphere for the students and parents who get there early. But gone are the days of Snider/Dwenger drawing 8000+ if it's Dwenger's home game. For the record, I would be quite grateful if they built me a personal suite. I like Dwenger enough that I would be compelled to attend most games and cheer them on.

It will happen, Snider's not down for good. Just not sure this will be the year for them. Carroll continues to grow, so I see potential there. They have a good coach and I think he knows how to grow a program. He was an assistant under Isaacs for well over a decade. Homestead hasn't done it by now and they probably won't. There is something missing there. They are always good, but rarely great. At the minimum, the Homestead program should be on par with Snider by now, but they aren't. Enrollment wise, they'll never more than likely be able to rumble with the MIC.

Carroll has the potential of having their best team ever...............that really just equates to a sectional championship. Homestead has one of the better quarterbacks in the state returning, but loses a large portion of his supporting cast from last season. Snider will be Snider, but appears to be a rebuilding year. That being said, I'm the same guy who predicted Wayne near the top of the SAC last year, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I'd put Spuller up against any in the state. Once you are in the stadium, it's a great venue. The walk isn't any worse than any other stadium. Spuller only gets the nod over Wayne with the turf field. I doubt I'll ever experience Dwenger, there is nowhere to sit for the visitors............... 600 capacity I believe. How is that even in the same league as Spuller?

The visitors side is a duplicate of the home side, minus the press box. All concrete with the concession stand behind the 50 yard line. Don't have to walk a mile to get a drink or go to the restroom like most stadiums.

The SAC will be a crapshoot this year. Could be Carroll, could be Snider, or it could be Homestead. More than likely in that order. Carrroll might be top ten caliber, but barely.

Lol, forget it. Deleted my last post.

He's not even in the same league as Jo Pa.

Overall body of work. Michigan was the better team the night they played ND. Michigan might even win 8 of 10 against the Irish because of how they match up against them. But because ND got waxed by Michigan doesn't mean they would have lost to Wisconsin by 21. It doesn't mean they would lose to Penn State by 7. It doesn't mean they would have struggled against Army. Which team should have been ranked higher? That's debatable.Like I've said all season, 4-15 is a crapshoot. Michigan looked great in waxing ND and IU. They were impressive in beating Iowa. In big games though, they were 1-3 with all three losses being blowouts. Notre Dame at least put up a fight when they played at Georgia. Waxing Navy and Iowa State played in ND's favor among the voters. How will the Wolverines be next year? The media seems to love them at the beginning of the year...........every year. Early rankings for 2020 even have them ahead of the Irish. Although oddsmakers have ND ahead. I will be rooting for them to go 9-3 next year. Losses hopefully to IU, Purdue, and Ball State.

It's really just a measurement of how you did that season. I agree that it's good for recruiting. Some schools use it to tout how many top ten finishes they've recorded in the past "x" amount of years. I'm sure it means a ton to those directly involved in the program. For a school like Navy, finishing in the Top 25 is kind of a big deal.

So when Snider comes with-in a field goal of a Carmel team that is considered one of their all time "greats", it' because rain is the "great equalizer." I heard that several times from several people on this forum. The same doesn't apply at the college level? Sad that Notre Dame's season has to be judged on a game played on the road in a monsoon. Kirk Herbstriet made a pitch in 2018 that Ohio State should have been the fourth playoff team instead of ND despite getting crushed by Purdue in a game in which they were completely embarrassed. It just seems like there is a different set of rules when it comes to ND.

Thoughts on a 4-loss Wisconsin team and Minnesota finishing higher than Notre Dame in the final rankings? The Irish obliterated a team that Oklahoma, Baylor, and Iowa struggled with.