2024 6A Who can win it all?

[temptation]

19 hours ago, BTF said:

I think you killed the thread Rodney. I guess you make too much sense. 

Nah, you give up too easy.

Let’s try this one…

Hey @Bash Riprock…since you like to downplay enrollment and often cite culture, coachng, youth leagues, etc…

Talk to me a little about Russ Mann walking into Ben Davis in his first year and winning a state title…

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Nah, you give up too easy.

Let’s try this one…

Hey @Bash Riprock…since you like to downplay enrollment and often cite culture, coachng, youth leagues, etc…

Talk to me a little about Russ Mann walking into Ben Davis in his first year and winning a state title…

I think his only deciding factor to accept a job at such a storied program was to assess the free lunches metric for the school system.....😉

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I think his only deciding factor to accept a job at such a storied program was to assess the free lunches metric for the school system.....😉

Way to deflect.  Just say it.

He built a culture, feeder system and state championship level coaching staff overnight in record time.

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Nah, you give up too easy.

Let’s try this one…

Hey @Bash Riprock…since you like to downplay enrollment and often cite culture, coachng, youth leagues, etc…

Talk to me a little about Russ Mann walking into Ben Davis in his first year and winning a state title…

All joking/sarcasm aside, you tell me.  Perhaps the bar wasn't raised to high since his predecessor took the large school Giants to an impressive 31-28 record during his 5 year tenure.  

[temptation]

6 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

All joking/sarcasm aside, you tell me.  Perhaps the bar wasn't raised to high since his predecessor took the large school Giants to an impressive 31-28 record during his 5 year tenure.  

Head scratching for sure, especially considering he parlayed that 31-28 record into a D1 coordinator position.

He and Tom Allen are the only coaches NOT to win at Ben Davis and both are now coaching at the next level, lol.

Edited Thursday at 04:30 PM by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Way to deflect.  Just say it.

He built a culture, feeder system and state championship level coaching staff overnight in record time.

Not deflecting at all.  Your theory had to be the first thing on his mind when selecting the Giants....I'm sure all coaches "drink your theories like Kool-Aid".

Are you going to try and convince us that BD doesn't have a rich history and culture for football, it doesn't have a sustained feeder system, that BDHS was void of excellent coaches, that awesome facilities doesn't exist, that Mann's development as a coach didn't occur through some excellent programs, etc?  

If its just about numbers only, then why did the program go 31-28 over the 5 years prior?  Weren't there enough kids on the roster?

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Not deflecting at all.  Your theory had to be the first thing on his mind when selecting the Giants....I'm sure all coaches "drink your theories like Kool-Aid".

Are you going to try and convince us that BD doesn't have a rich history and culture for football, it doesn't have a sustained feeder system, that BDHS was void of excellent coaches, that awesome facilities doesn't exist, that Mann's development as a coach didn't occur through some excellent programs, etc?  

If its just about numbers only, then why did the program go 31-28 over the 5 years prior?  Weren't there enough kids on the roster?

Correct.  BD is one of a handful of programs in Indiana where you simply need a conductor to keep the train on the tracks due to many of the factors you mentioned.

At other places you have to build the train, do the maintenance work on the train and steer it with one eye closed in order to navigate your way to the top.

Not at a place with 4500 students though.

Russ Mann is Indiana’s current all-time leader in winning percentage.

Pretty cool.

Edited Thursday at 04:35 PM by temptation

[temptation]

I think this sums up this thread…

[BTF]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

He and Tom Allen are the only coaches NOT to win at Ben Davis and both are now coaching at the next level, lol.

I've always been intrigued by that. Makes me wonder how many current high school coaches in Indiana are more than capable of leading a Power Five program. 

[temptation]

28 minutes ago, BTF said:

I've always been intrigued by that. Makes me wonder how many current high school coaches in Indiana are more than capable of leading a Power Five program. 

Well, based on logic if Jason Simmons and Tom Allen can’t win at Ben Davis but are D1 quality the only conclusion is that Russ Mann is the next coming of Bill Belichick.

Edited Thursday at 09:19 PM by temptation

[Rodney]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Correct.  BD is one of a handful of programs in Indiana where you simply need a conductor to keep the train on the tracks due to many of the factors you mentioned.

At other places you have to build the train, do the maintenance work on the train and steer it with one eye closed in order to navigate your way to the top.

Not at a place with 4500 students though.

Russ Mann is Indiana’s current all-time leader in winning percentage.

Pretty cool.

what is the thought process do you think for keeping one eye closed while navigating, does it help you focus, i've heard it can affect depth perception.

[Rodney]

On 6/17/2024 at 4:11 PM, BTF said:

My interpretation is that he's saying anyone not named Carmel, Ben Davis, Warren Central, or Center Grove is irrelevant. Las Vegas oddsmakers would agree. However, using the word "irrelevant" is irresponsible. There are probably 10 other  relevant teams capable of beating those four if they don't put their absolute best forward. 

had to go back a little bit for entertainment purposes

there are not 10 teams capable of winning 6a this year, or any year in the past 2 decades. 

 

there are at most like 4 teams a year in the conversation.

[BTF]

49 minutes ago, Rodney said:

had to go back a little bit for entertainment purposes

there are not 10 teams capable of winning 6a this year, or any year in the past 2 decades. 

 

there are at most like 4 teams a year in the conversation.

I said "capable" if said teams don't put their best foot forward. I'm not sure Ben Davis put their best foot forward when they almost lost to Warren Central (16th best in the state according to Sagarin) last year. But yes, ten teams could have beaten Ben Davis last year if they let their guard down. 

Which begs the question. Which teams other than Center Grove and Ben Davis are capable of winning this year? Give me two teams. You too Temp. 

Edited Thursday at 10:19 PM by BTF

[Rodney]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

I said "capable" if said teams don't put their best foot forward. I'm not sure Ben Davis put their best foot forward when they almost lost to Warren Central (16th best in the state according to Sagarin) last year. But yes, ten teams could have beaten Ben Davis last year if they let their guard down. 

Which begs the question. Which teams other than Center Grove and Ben Davis are capable of winning this year? Give me two teams. You too Temp. 

there were not 10 teams in the state of Indiana capable of beating ben davis last year

for the sake of shooting this right back to enrollment

Carmel and Warren

[Titan32]

On 6/17/2024 at 7:54 AM, KmartGiant said:

I know Warren and BD are each loaded with D1 talent. Warren on defense and BD across the board. I don't pay an ounce of attention past Carmel in the north, as they have proven irrelevant for years now. Center Grove is young, but has some line talent and young skill position talent. The south is the same way I feel about the north, past CG it's all small schools and irrelevant schools. Now as for favorites: I'd have to give the nod to Warren or BD. I wish BD would drop Pike, Avon and NC and leave the MIC and get onto a national schedule. WIthout CG and Carmel the MIC is Warren or BD. Maybe a Lawrence Township school once in a blue moon. I'm not going to say who wins, but it will be a south 6A team unless Carmel pulls something out and gets much better in a hurry. Just my 2 cents.

3A and 4A football in Indiana is the most entertaining....don't @ me.

[BTF]

15 minutes ago, Rodney said:

15 minutes ago, Rodney said:

there were not 10 teams in the state of Indiana capable of beating ben davis last year

for the sake of shooting this right back to enrollment

Carmel and Warren

The 16th ranked team almost did it. You can't let your guard down against anyone in the top half 6A. Now, last years BD team putting their best foot forward? Only one team was capable of beating them in my opinion. 

I can roll with Carmel and Warren. What are the chances someone outside of those four can take the title? I think earlier Temp and I concluded that number to be 15%. I'm bumping it up to 22%. 

 

[temptation]

31 minutes ago, BTF said:

I said "capable" if said teams don't put their best foot forward. I'm not sure Ben Davis put their best foot forward when they almost lost to Warren Central (16th best in the state according to Sagarin) last year. But yes, ten teams could have beaten Ben Davis last year if they let their guard down. 

Which begs the question. Which teams other than Center Grove and Ben Davis are capable of winning this year? Give me two teams. You too Temp. 

Nylan Brown, BD’s best defensive player did not play that night and Warren scored 2 special teams TDs…don’t let that box score fool you.

Already stated my percentages earlier in this thread.

Gimme Cathedral, Westfield, Brownsburg, HSE and Fishers in that “outside shot” group.

Edited Thursday at 10:49 PM by temptation

[temptation]

13 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

3A and 4A football in Indiana is the most entertaining....don't @ me.

I’ll give you 4A…Privates (specifically Chatard) own 3A.

 

14 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

3A and 4A football in Indiana is the most entertaining....don't @ me.

 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Nylan Brown, BD’s best defensive player did not play that night and Warren scored 2 special teams TDs…don’t let that box score fool you.

Already stated my percentages earlier in this thread.

Gimme Cathedral, Westfield, Brownsburg, HSE and Fishers in that “outside shot” group.

So five Indy suburb teams and none from the north? Don't forget that the north has represented two years running now. You can't narrow that Indy group down to two? I know HSE has a couple of D1 guys. It's a hard question, I get it. I think there are nine teams in the northern bracket that could make a case. 

Special teams is a killer. I think WC will need them in Week 1. 

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

So five Indy suburb teams and none from the north? Don't forget that the north has represented two years running now. You can't narrow that Indy group down to two? I know HSE has a couple of D1 guys. It's a hard question, I get it. I think there are nine teams in the northern bracket that could make a case. 

Special teams is a killer. I think WC will need them in Week 1. 

Make a case to MAKE it to LOS?  Sure.

Win it?  Nah.

More often the not the 6A south representative can name its score on Thanksgiving weekend.

[Rodney]

are we really going to sit here and act like crown point should have been on the same field as ben davis?

 

 

we could have put together a team of gid members and had the same outcome as that game

[BTF]

43 minutes ago, Rodney said:

are we really going to sit here and act like crown point should have been on the same field as ben davis?

we could have put together a team of gid members and had the same outcome as that game

I guess the gap between Cathedral/Center Grove and the Northern Indy teams (Carmel, Fishers, HSE, and Westfield) was pretty wide last year. All one can hope for is for the north the close the gap this year, even by a little bit. 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Make a case to MAKE it to LOS?  Sure.

Win it?  Nah.

More often the not the 6A south representative can name its score on Thanksgiving weekend.

I can't debate that. But like you, I'm rooting for parity in 6A. It's coming. Someone's going to buck the trend soon.............within the next three years. Take it to the bank. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I can't debate that. But like you, I'm rooting for parity in 6A. It's coming. Someone's going to buck the trend soon.............within the next three years. Take it to the bank. 

Someone NOT within a stone’s throw of 465 is going to win the 6A state title?

[Rodney]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Someone NOT within a stone’s throw of 465 is going to win the 6A state title?

ill take the stone's throw for 20 beers