Will Vouchers affect the Football landscape in Indiana?

[MHSTigerFan]

8 hours ago, Irishman said:

You are simply choosing not to see the disparity in the groups you mentioned. Try another angle. Bishop Dwenger and New Haven are in the same sectional often. Dwenger has With similar populations, Dwenger has just 5% of its students who qualify for free and reduced lunch. New Haven has 67%. The minority population at Dwenger is 19%. At New Haven, it is 55%. That said, you left out one group I mentioned, special needs students. On most voucher and charter schools, that population is non existent. Statewide, only 9% are special ed students. To meet the needs these students are allowed by law is what the per student money is based on in Indiana. For a comparison, Bishop Dwenger has 45 students who are labeled special needs. None of them are on certificate track. New Haven has 289 students labeled as special needs, or 21% of their population, and about 15% are certificate track. Another school in the sectional, Wayne HS has 264 special needs students, or 19% of their population. On a personal note, I had 150 students in class last semester. 79 of them had either an IEP or ILP. Of the ILP students, I had 16 that spoke no English. 8 of them were in 1 class period, and represented 5 different languages. Those students’ parents would not even know what a voucher was. And there is zero chance they would have been admitted if they did. 
 

I’m mostly asking you to defend your claim that vouchers result in segregation.

Citing a disparity in free lunch qualifications between two schools doesn’t do that.  What were those numbers prior to the voucher program even existing?  I’d bet they were pretty similar.

The two participation data you presented on income and race both point away from school segregation, not towards it.

I ask you this — and instead of answering my question you go off on a tangent about special needs students.

[Irishman]

8 minutes ago, Bullhorn99 said:

Would these numbers be significantly different if vouchers went away? You may be able to prove me wrong, but I'm guessing those numbers would be about the same. So is the problem vouchers or is the problem private schools? You could probably find the similar disparities between public schools from affluent communities versus public schools from poorer communities. 

You are likely right that there would not be much of a difference without them. The perception is that voucher schools are still seeing a large number of students coming from public schools and that is not true as the original post in the topic states. There may be a slight difference in the affluent schools compared to poor schools, but the numbers are much closer than they are in my example. 

8 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

I’m mostly asking you to defend your claim that vouchers result in segregation.

Citing a disparity in free lunch qualifications between two schools doesn’t do that.  What were those numbers prior to the voucher program even existing?  I’d bet they were pretty similar.

The two participation data you presented on income and race both point away from school segregation, not towards it.

I ask you this — and instead of answering my question you go off on a tangent about special needs students.

What a horrible take on my posts. 

[Sparty]

It’s quite interesting to see the paradigm shift on the “acceptance” of the school choice program.  Either folks have changed their views to supporting vouchers or they are tired of being silent.  Kudos.  

[MHSTigerFan]

16 hours ago, Irishman said:

What a horrible take on my posts. 

Huh?  You made an assertion - and the quantified evidence you offered pointed in the other direction of the assertion.

When asked for evidence that actually supported the claim, you cited a different data point that is almost certainly no different than it was status quo ante.

There’s absolutely no supportable argument to be made that school choice will lead or has lead to school segregation - racial, economic, or otherwise.

That’s a platitude people make for no reason other than its shock value.

[MHSTigerFan]

14 hours ago, Sparty said:

It’s quite interesting to see the paradigm shift on the “acceptance” of the school choice program.  Either folks have changed their views to supporting vouchers or they are tired of being silent.  Kudos.  

To that end, it probably is deeply rooted enough in Indiana at this point that it’s unlikely to be going away anytime soon.  Nationwide, there are more states moving in this direction to one degree or another than there are ones which are moving away from it.

[RegionFBFan]

It is apparent that this is a very polarizing topic with parties on both sides not willing to come to any alignment or agreement. After reading all of these responses, no one has actually answered the original question which is “Will Vouchers affect the football landscape in Indiana?”

Indiana has had vouchers of some form since 2011 and my viewpoint is that it has had very little impact on the football landscape. I’m basing this solely on the State tournament results and without any hard data just perception. I think the Success Factor has had more of an impact than vouchers.

Transfer Portal is the new variable that may or may not affect the landscape. TP and enhanced voucher program might change it but it will be hard two separate the two changes independently. In my opinion, vouchers alone won’t change it because it really hasn’t in 14 years.

[tango]

23 hours ago, RegionFBFan said:

It is apparent that this is a very polarizing topic with parties on both sides not willing to come to any alignment or agreement. After reading all of these responses, no one has actually answered the original question which is “Will Vouchers affect the football landscape in Indiana?”

Indiana has had vouchers of some form since 2011 and my viewpoint is that it has had very little impact on the football landscape. I’m basing this solely on the State tournament results and without any hard data just perception. I think the Success Factor has had more of an impact than vouchers.

Transfer Portal is the new variable that may or may not affect the landscape. TP and enhanced voucher program might change it but it will be hard two separate the two changes independently. In my opinion, vouchers alone won’t change it because it really hasn’t in 14 years.

Agreed. Not a discernible impact.