5 yard face mask

[CaptainHook]

1st and 10.  1st down reception for 3 yards.  Flag for 5 yard facemask.  What should the down and distance be on the next play?

 

[Bobref]

Just now, CaptainHook said:

1st and 10.  1st down reception for 3 yards.  Flag for 5 yard facemask.  What should the down and distance be on the next play?

Assuming the facemask foul occurred after the reception, it’s 1st and 2. The 5 yd. penalty is enforced from the end of the run and the down is replayed. If the facemask occurred before the catch, if accepted it’s enforced from the previous spot and the down is replayed, so it would be 1st and 5.

[CaptainHook]

I'll be dipped.

[CaptainHook]

you are telling me the play counts, the penalty counts, and the down is replayed?

[Bobref]

11 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

you are telling me the play counts, the penalty counts, and the down is replayed?

Any time the penalty is accepted for a live ball foul, other than an unsportsmanlike or nonplayer foul, the down is replayed unless the enforcement results in a 1st down, or the foul carries a penalty that includes either loss of down or an automatic first down.

[JustRules]

3 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

1st and 10.  1st down reception for 3 yards.  Flag for 5 yard facemask.  What should the down and distance be on the next play?

 

It depends on the timing of the foul. If it was before the pass was completed the enforcement spot is the previous spot so either 1st and 5 (accepted) or 2nd and 7 (declined). If it was after the pass was completed the enforcement is the end of the run and replay the down. 1st and 3.

[SoIndRef]

Should the NFHS can the 5 yard face mask and go uniform with all levels and just make it a 15 yard penalty?

[JustRules]

18 minutes ago, SoIndRef said:

Should the NFHS can the 5 yard face mask and go uniform with all levels and just make it a 15 yard penalty?

I would be OK with that. However what is now a 5-yard facemask goes away as a foul. The NCAA 15-yard foul is the same as the NFHS 15 yard foul. Both require grabbing with pulling and twisting. The NFHS 5-yarder is just grabbing. I wouldn't want to make that a 15-yarder in NFHS.

[oldtimeqb]

2 hours ago, JustRules said:

I would be OK with that. However what is now a 5-yard facemask goes away as a foul. The NCAA 15-yard foul is the same as the NFHS 15 yard foul. Both require grabbing with pulling and twisting. The NFHS 5-yarder is just grabbing. I wouldn't want to make that a 15-yarder in NFHS.

Agreed.  Or you can add "That's a Facemask!" along with "That's a Horsecollar!" to every tackle that is slightly ugly.  

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, JustRules said:

I would be OK with that. However what is now a 5-yard facemask goes away as a foul. The NCAA 15-yard foul is the same as the NFHS 15 yard foul. Both require grabbing with pulling and twisting. The NFHS 5-yarder is just grabbing. I wouldn't want to make that a 15-yarder in NFHS.

I think elimination of any foul that is even tangentially safety-related is unlikely in the current “risk-minimization “ climate.

[Von2Rov]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:45 PM, CaptainHook said:

you are telling me the play counts, the penalty counts, and the down is replayed?

Did this have to do with when it seemed Cathedral had an extra play on a series at the end of the third going into the 4th?  If so, I remember it as well because after the play you discussed, the box showed 2nd down on the next play.  Then 3rd on the next play.  Then the quarter ended and they played "another" 3rd down.  (this is all according to the box).

[Bobref]

56 minutes ago, Von2Rov said:

Did this have to do with when it seemed Cathedral had an extra play on a series at the end of the third going into the 4th?  If so, I remember it as well because after the play you discussed, the box showed 2nd down on the next play.  Then 3rd on the next play.  Then the quarter ended and they played "another" 3rd down.  (this is all according to the box).

It is not unheard of for the box to be inaccurate after penalty enforcement, although either the linesman or the line judge should correct that. But it sounds like nobody was shorted a down.

[Von2Rov]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

It is not unheard of for the box to be inaccurate after penalty enforcement, although either the linesman or the line judge should correct that. But it sounds like nobody was shorted a down.

Correct, it simply seemed as though they received an extra down due to the box mishap.