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Bobref

Should ND Decline the Bowl Invitation?

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5 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I see your point....although the teams ND play in those venues are not independent.  I think kids put some value on that, but not sure if more than picking up bling in a bowl game.  I certainly agree there are ND fans everywhere....but I sure couldn't find them at Stanford just a couple of weeks ago....that small stadium was embarrassingly empty.  

I would think the Big 10 and SEC do pretty good for their member teams when it comes to generating income...there had to be a reasons teams worked to get in them and some have to travel great distances to play their games.  I'm not saying ND would increase revenues by going to a conference....I am just saying there are pros and cons of being independent.

I agree.  I think every school has to find what works best for them. I think ND has a pretty good deal with the ACC. Is it perfect? No. However I think it is the best situation available.

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1 minute ago, MarshallCounty said:

I agree.  I think every school has to find what works best for them. I think ND has a pretty good deal with the ACC. Is it perfect? No. However I think it is the best situation available.

I agree with that....ND is in the ACC for sports except football...with the 5 games played against ACC opponents.  Its a great deal for ND and give the ACC credit for being flexible.  I don't think any other of the Power 5 conferences would have done that....perhaps the Big 12.

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Top 25 WHEN they played...

Better hope Navy wins tomorrow and stays ranked...

As it has been said on this forum for years, the only rankings that matter are the ones at the end of the year. 

The CFP rankings are done. Spots 5-25 will not change. 

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1 minute ago, Sacked said:

As it has been said on this forum for years, the only rankings that matter are the ones at the end of the year. 

The CFP rankings are done. Spots 5-25 will not change. 

Yep, makes my point.  USC and UVA were overrated when they played ND as the "end of the year" rankings show both outside of the top 25...

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13 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Yep, makes my point.  USC and UVA were overrated when they played ND as the "end of the year" rankings show both outside of the top 25...

Not sure where you are getting your rankings but the final CFP poll has 

USC- #22

Navy- #23

UVA- #24

That is three top 25 wins. 

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33 minutes ago, Sacked said:

Not sure where you are getting your rankings but the final CFP poll has 

USC- #22

Navy- #23

UVA- #24

That is three top 25 wins. 

Image result for forget it he's rolling gif

Image result for forget it he's on a roll gif

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2 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

Image result for forget it he's rolling gif

Image result for forget it he's on a roll gif

LOL, was referring to the AP/coaches polls  but I digress...

You win.  

Helluva year for the Irish.  

 

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6 minutes ago, Temptation said:

LOL, was referring to the AP/coaches polls  but I digress...

You win.  

Helluva year for the Irish.  

 

I am not sure I would go that far. They still got steam rolled by Michigan. 🤣

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3 hours ago, Temptation said:

Let’s settle on “average.”

ONE top 25 win and The Camping World Bowl is my evidence.  Yours?

 

3 hours ago, Temptation said:

Let’s settle on “average.”

ONE top 25 win and The Camping World Bowl is my evidence.  Yours?

Not sure how you define “average.” Could be the mean, the median, or the mode. But any way you slice it, there are 130 FBS teams and the Irish are #15. That’s not “average” in anyone’s math. And that’s if you look at only at a single season’s results. If you want to talk historically ... well, that’s not “average” either.

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13 minutes ago, Temptation said:

LOL, was referring to the AP/coaches polls  but I digress...

You win.  

Helluva year for the Irish.  

 

👍

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23 minutes ago, Temptation said:

LOL, was referring to the AP/coaches polls  but I digress...

You win.  

Helluva year for the Irish.  

 

Actually, it was only “average” ... for the Irish. 😂🤣😅

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18 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Actually, it was only “average” ... for the Irish. 😂🤣😅

Correct. 

All 10-2 seasons are not viewed equally.  See Minnesota and Notre Dame

Let's see if we can agree on two consecutive things.

Edited by Temptation

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13 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Correct. 

All 10-2 seasons are not viewed equally.  See Minnesota and Notre Dame

Let's see if we can agree on two consecutive things.

Yes, let’s see. If they played, ND would be a 9 pt. favorite. 

But I take your point. For Minnesota fans, this season is the stuff of which dreams are made. For ND, not so much.

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3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Yes, let’s see. If they played, ND would be a 9 pt. favorite. 

But I take your point. For Minnesota fans, this season is the stuff of which dreams are made. For ND, not so much.

So what's to be done about it?  More lamenting and hand wringing?

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7 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

So what's to be done about it?  More lamenting and hand wringing?

Some would advocate just accepting this as the “new normal.” 

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16 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Some would advocate just accepting this as the “new normal.” 

Yep.

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46 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Some would advocate just accepting this as the “new normal.” 

 

29 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Yep.

I didn’t say I would. Gets like this will help. https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Five-star-RB-Chris-Tyree-says-hes-100-percent-signing-with-Notre-Dame-140389858/

Edited by Bobref

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21 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Even in their two recent "undefeated" regular seasons they had their doors blown off in the postseason, proving they really did not belong.  The gap between the top 6-8 programs in America is as large as its ever been and is growing by the day.

Most SEC schools, Clemson, Ohio State and Oklahoma are willing to do things that other programs are not willing to do.  

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8 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Even in their two recent "undefeated" regular seasons they had their doors blown off in the postseason, proving they really did not belong.  The gap between the top 6-8 programs in America is as large as its ever been and is growing by the day.

Most SEC schools, Clemson, Ohio State and Oklahoma are willing to do things that other programs are not willing to do.  

So, unless you win the national championship, you don’t belong? Interesting. Certainly there are schools that bend or break the rules, although I wouldn’t necessarily put those you’ve named in that category. But if what you’re trying to say is that ND will never be in that class unless they compromise their principles, I just have 2 observations:

1. Although accepting anyone with a pulse as long as they run a 4.4 or squat 600# makes it easier to get to that level, it’s not an absolute prerequisite.

2. But if that’s what it takes, too bad. Principles are more important than championships.

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18 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Even in their two recent "undefeated" regular seasons they had their doors blown off in the postseason, proving they really did not belong.  The gap between the top 6-8 programs in America is as large as its ever been and is growing by the day.

Most SEC schools, Clemson, Ohio State and Oklahoma are willing to do things that other programs are not willing to do.  

Just curious. What do you think that these schools do that other are not willing to do? 

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2 minutes ago, Sacked said:

Just curious. What do you think that these schools do that other are not willing to do? 

Academic standards are lower; willing to accept JUCO's...

Paying players/impermissible benefits.

Over signing...

 

Just off the top of my head.

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13 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So, unless you win the national championship, you don’t belong? Interesting. Certainly there are schools that bend or break the rules, although I wouldn’t necessarily put those you’ve named in that category. But if what you’re trying to say is that ND will never be in that class unless they compromise their principles, I just have 2 observations:

1. Although accepting anyone with a pulse as long as they run a 4.4 or squat 600# makes it easier to get to that level, it’s not an absolute prerequisite.

2. But if that’s what it takes, too bad. Principles are more important than championships.

I agree which is why they should keep Kelly.  They should not aim to become simply a football factory like other institutions.

A story that proves my point:  Upon being hired,  a head coach at a prestigious institution nearly on par with Notre Dame academically took a list of his top 50 prospects to the admissions office and was immediately told they could only honestly offer 33 of the 50 kids on his list as the other 17 would not qualify or pass admissions academically.

That’s a tough hill to climb.  ND will get it’s fair share of 4/5 stars but the platoons being built at the programs mentioned above are tough to overcome.

 

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

A story that proves my point:  Upon being hired,  a head coach at a prestigious institution nearly on par with Notre Dame academically took a list of his top 50 prospects to the admissions office and was immediately told they could only honestly offer 33 of the 50 kids on his list as the other 17 would not qualify or pass admissions academically.

The example that was given to me was that of the ESPN Top 100, Notre Dame would not even bother talking to half of them.

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12 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The example that was given to me was that of the ESPN Top 100, Notre Dame would not even bother talking to half of them.

Sounds about right.

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3 hours ago, Temptation said:

Even in their two recent "undefeated" regular seasons they had their doors blown off in the postseason, proving they really did not belong.  The gap between the top 6-8 programs in America is as large as its ever been and is growing by the day.

Most SEC schools, Clemson, Ohio State and Oklahoma are willing to do things that other programs are not willing to do.  

Clemson beat Alabama by a wider spread than they did ND; so did Alabama not belong either? While ND was the weaker of the 4 teams last year, no one else had done what they needed to replace them in that 4 slot. Now, the previous season, no doubt, BUT Bama was in a class by itself. They would have beaten the doors off of ANY team they would have played that year; even if it had been a rematch with Georgia. 

I would also disagree with the comment that most SEC schools are willing to do things others are not. In recent seasons, there have been 2 MAYBE 3 good teams. This year, I would say 4, giving Georgia some credit; then again, LSU certainly dispelled any thoughts about UGA. 

I do agree that the gap between the top few programs and the rest is as big as it has ever been. And, as others have said, for a program at a school like Notre Dame to be where they are, with the tougher admission standards. I am not making excuses for them. I would LOVE to see them take the next step as far as being competitive. Playing teams like Georgia, Clemson, Alabama down the road a bit is a good way to measure where the program is. 

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