Hypothetical Neutral Site Regionals

[Dave007]

One question - if IHSSA is successful with regional /semi state sites with basketball why can't they make it work in football?  I assume basketball sites are predetermined.

 

Last year, Cathedral had 5A semi-state home game with New Albany and that game was played at University of Indianapolis stadium ( I am not sure why it was not held at Tech as the Regional vs New Pal was held there the week prior).  I think these Divison II and III stadiums (Marian, Butler, U of Indy, Franklin College, Anderson, etc) would be fantastic option for permanent regional sites but they are not cheap to play there.  I know for a fact last time Cathedral played a regular season game at Butler Bowl (2017) it was $5,000.

 

 

[Yuccaguy]

19 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Bellmont is basically dirt with a sliver of grass. It was awful when youth teams play on it. Surprised they haven't started raising funds for turf. Though I'm guessing they'll have to start winning again before that is even entertained.

Not sure why they always do North & South and haven't tried East vs West. I'd actually rather they do quarters: NW, NE, SW & SE. Then have rotation of semi states. 

I spoke to someone in Decatur specifically about turf at Worthman Stadium.

They said that the donator of the land that Bellmont HS sits on (Bob Worthman) was big time into conservation and land management.  Because of that, it is entirely possible that Bellmont will never get a turf field for FB.  

It sounded plausible to me. 

[crimsonace1]

On 11/5/2022 at 4:39 PM, Basementbias said:

Bellmont is basically dirt with a sliver of grass. It was awful when youth teams play on it. Surprised they haven't started raising funds for turf. Though I'm guessing they'll have to start winning again before that is even entertained.

Not sure why they always do North & South and haven't tried East vs West. I'd actually rather they do quarters: NW, NE, SW & SE. Then have rotation of semi states. 

Geography. Indiana is tall, not wide. A Hammond to Evansville regional game would be a bear travel-wise. 

[crimsonace1]

On 11/6/2022 at 9:17 AM, Dave007 said:

One question - if IHSSA is successful with regional /semi state sites with basketball why can't they make it work in football?  I assume basketball sites are predetermined.

 

Last year, Cathedral had 5A semi-state home game with New Albany and that game was played at University of Indianapolis stadium ( I am not sure why it was not held at Tech as the Regional vs New Pal was held there the week prior).  I think these Divison II and III stadiums (Marian, Butler, U of Indy, Franklin College, Anderson, etc) would be fantastic option for permanent regional sites but they are not cheap to play there.  I know for a fact last time Cathedral played a regular season game at Butler Bowl (2017) it was $5,000.

 

 

Remember, one issue with college stadiums is they do not have HS regulation goalposts (college posts are 18'6" wide, HS are 24' wide). Either the goalposts have to be retrofitted for high school (some can be, some can't) or extensions put on. You also have to mark HS hashmarks, which are wider than college ones. 

Many of the D2/D3/NAIA stadiums are smaller than local HS stadiums. Franklin HS has a *much* larger capacity and better parking situation thank Franklin College. 

On 11/5/2022 at 3:51 PM, globemstr3 said:

I love this idea and it should happen its 2022. It won't however until IHSAA gets a handle on North and South lines. As a Miner fan I sorta liked the re-alignment to 37, as I felt all those schools were fairly close in distance. And we get to play Mater Dei at a later date! (chuckle). Regional for Linton is at the ROY Friday. The travel time from Lapel? I really wish them well and HOPE their fans travel well, but C'mon man. How is Lapel even considered a Southern Region team? That's Wrong. 2 hrs plus driving time. 

Now if they fix that then it could happen. Lets say IHSAA designates permanent Regional sites? Remember we play Fri Nights. I can only speak for the South. Lets say Bloomington or Terre Haute? IHSAA pays the host but what about the schools money etc? Hey if ya got a traveling concession stand there ya have it! (sorta like Scecina). Sometimes its not about the money doing the right thing. Done ranting now. GO MINERS! More importantly...safe travels Bulldogs fans, what a day.

I have no idea why Mater Dei and Triton Central are playing, as well as Linton and Lapel. A wiser pairing would've had the MD-Linton sectionals paired together and the TC-Lapel ones, but 2A was weirdly aligned in the south. 

[Bonecrusher]

On 11/5/2022 at 12:22 PM, HoopsCoach said:

Here are my hypothetical neutral site regionals for this year.  Single games played on Friday night, all at locations with turf fields.

6A

Lafayette Jeff/Carroll (FW) @ Marion

Hamilton Southeastern/Westfield @ Carmel

Brownsburg/Cathedral @ Ben Davis

Warren Central/Center Grove @ Southport

5A

Merrillville/Valparaiso @ Hobart

Mishawaka/Snider @ Warsaw

Plainfield/Whiteland @ Perry Meridian

Bloomington South/Castle @ Jasper

4A

New Prairie/Northridge @ SB St. Joe

Columbia City/Kokomo @ Mississinewa

Roncalli/New Palestine @ Franklin Central

East Central/Evansville Memorial @ Bloomington North

3A

West Lafayette/Knox @ Logansport

Yorktown/Chatard @ Pendleton Heights

Monrovia/Owen Valley @ Martinsville

Lawrenceburg/Southridge @ Charlestown

2A

Andrean/Central Catholic @ Crown Point

Luers/Bluffton @ Norwell

Linton/Lapel @ Greencastle

Triton Central/Mater Dei @ Mitchell

1A

North Judson/Park Tudor @ Harrison (WL)

Carroll (Flora)/Adams Central @ Oak Hill

Sheridan/North Decatur @ Mount Vernon (Fortville)

Lutheran/Providence @ Seymour

I like it!!

But then most of ya'll know I'm in favor of neutral sites.

[Bonecrusher]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:20 PM, jakone said:

Luers would have to travel twice as far as Bluffton if the game is at Norwell. Bellmont is about the same distance for both schools.

 

On 11/5/2022 at 12:38 PM, Yuccaguy said:

Nice selection of Neutral Sites...

BUT, There is NO WAY Norwell hosts that contest!  Wells County hatred runs generational deep!  Also, Bluffton has turf anyway.  It remains a "home game" for the Tigers. 

There's always Heritage.  Turf, 3A sized stands.  But the travel advantage flips to Luers in that scenario.

Someone's gonna get screwed a little bit re. travel time with neutral sites.  Deal with it.  Make it worth that extra time and win! (As told to a group of parents - and later the players - by my sons HC several years ago.  We won.)

[Basementbias]

3 minutes ago, Bonecrusher said:

 

There's always Heritage.  Turf, 3A sized stands.  But the travel advantage flips to Luers in that scenario.

Someone's gonna get screwed a little bit re. travel time with neutral sites.  Deal with it.  Make it worth that extra time and win! (As told to a group of parents - and later the players - by my sons HC several years ago.  We won.)

Should do Huntington North for Luers vs Bluffton as a neutral site.

[Bonecrusher]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:33 PM, Coach Nowlin said:

in this scenario (I am a proponent I think of neutral sites at this level) are sites pre determined, if they are what happens when host site school is still playing, a lot of your school personnel who would need to be there for the 2 visiting teams would also need to be at their own school's game, if not pre determined, and based on after Sectionals, does it give Host Schools and visitors 6 days enough time to pull it off with all the people and linguistics?   

 

That's a fair question.

I won't even pretend to know the logistics of it, but down here they make it work.  I would think there would be at least a base level of pre-planning required, since all playoff games are neutral sites, and venues aren't decided until that night's games are over.  Obviously adults with kids playing wouldn't be expected to stay home and work concessions, or something like that.  You would have to have some level of commitment from other staff/faculty/volunteers.  I don't even know if those people are paid.  The host school does get a percent of the gate, but it's probably not very high after the UIL (IHSAA for ya'll) takes their cut.  Probably the longer you do it, you come up with a system.  Pros & cons to everything.

[Basementbias]

53 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Geography. Indiana is tall, not wide. A Hammond to Evansville regional game would be a bear travel-wise. 

Yeah I was meaning using neutral sites though. I should have clarified. No reason they can't rotate the semi state pairing each year between the 4 different regional winners. Year 1 could be NW vs NE & SW vs SE; Year 2 NW vs SE, NE vs SW; Year 3 NW vs SW, NE vs SE. Should be neutral sites for regional & semi state.

[Basementbias]

1 minute ago, Bonecrusher said:

That's a fair question.

I won't even pretend to know the logistics of it, but down here they make it work.  I would think there would be at least a base level of pre-planning required, since all playoff games are neutral sites, and venues aren't decided until that night's games are over.  Obviously adults with kids playing wouldn't be expected to stay home and work concessions, or something like that.  You would have to have some level of commitment from other staff/faculty/volunteers.  I don't even know if those people are paid.  The host school does get a percent of the gate, but it's probably not very high after the UIL (IHSAA for ya'll) takes their cut.  Probably the longer you do it, you come up with a system.  Pros & cons to everything.

Believe Ohio has schools or venues bid or make a determination if they want to host playoff games if they meet the OHSAA requirements. This year for they start neutral sites this week in round 3 up until semi state at those sites. They sometimes have to swap games from one site to another. That usually comes from 2 or 4 of the schools asking the OHSAA. 2 schools on the east side of Wood County just did this for their game. Eastwood vs Elmwood was moved from Napoleon to Bowling Green. Bowling Green should have been the obvious choice but the OHSAA like the IHSAA can just be ignorant at times.

[Yuccaguy]

4 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Believe Ohio has schools or venues bid or make a determination if they want to host playoff games if they meet the OHSAA requirements. This year for they start neutral sites this week in round 3 up until semi state at those sites. They sometimes have to swap games from one site to another. That usually comes from 2 or 4 of the schools asking the OHSAA. 2 schools on the east side of Wood County just did this for their game. Eastwood vs Elmwood was moved from Napoleon to Bowling Green. Bowling Green should have been the obvious choice but the OHSAA like the IHSAA can just be ignorant at times.

I grew up in Missouri where the ENTIRE state playoff system is played at neutral sites.  

It seems to work well there.  But as we well know, Indiana does it their way...regardless of what others do.  

IN is well past the time to move on to a different outlook (beyond the Regional level for logistics/travel/monies/officials and the like) IMO.  Start assigning both Regional and Semi-State locales to begin to get schools to think about LOS as a 'neutral' site, rather than allowing a "host (neutral 😃) site" host Regionals and Semi-State games. 

The caveat to all of this, is understanding that the "all-in system" will be employed up and until the Sectional Finals....then it's Neutral Sites from there on out.  This allows IN to keep a modicum of the all-in...but then gravitate to what should be a fair playing field for both schools participating in IN HS football beyond (the) Sectional Finals.  

[Bonecrusher]

20 hours ago, Basementbias said:

Should do Huntington North for Luers vs Bluffton as a neutral site.

That's a good suggestion - I wish I'd thought of it.  We used to live about 1/4 mile away from that stadium when we first got married.  That makes me feel even dumber for not considering HN lol! 

Do they have turf now?  I thought I read they do.

[Basementbias]

9 minutes ago, Bonecrusher said:

That's a good suggestion - I wish I'd thought of it.  We used to live about 1/4 mile away from that stadium when we first got married.  That makes me feel even dumber for not considering HN lol! 

Do they have turf now?  I thought I read they do.

Believe so as they did a major renovation. Don't feel bad as I stupidly confused Snider & Carroll in a Snider thread vs Mishawaka. Oof!

[HoopsCoach]

On 11/8/2022 at 1:58 PM, Basementbias said:

Should do Huntington North for Luers vs Bluffton as a neutral site.

I considered suggesting Huntington North. They have a brand new facility and I’m sure they would be eager to host a tournament game to showcase their investment.  However, I went with Norwell because it is less time and miles for BOTH Luers and Bluffton to go to Norwell compared to HN.

Luers to Huntington North - 33 minutes, 26 miles

Bluffton to Huntington North - 39 minutes, 25 miles

Luers to Norwell - 24 minutes, 17 miles

Bluffton to Norwell - 16 minutes, 9 miles

[Yuccaguy]

1 hour ago, HoopsCoach said:

I considered suggesting Huntington North. They have a brand new facility and I’m sure they would be eager to host a tournament game to showcase their investment.  However, I went with Norwell because it is less time and miles for BOTH Luers and Bluffton to go to Norwell compared to HN.

Luers to Huntington North - 33 minutes, 26 miles

Bluffton to Huntington North - 39 minutes, 25 miles

Luers to Norwell - 24 minutes, 17 miles

Bluffton to Norwell - 16 minutes, 9 miles

I am still going with the Morgan Bros. having a rasslin match to NEVER have a Wells Co. site hosting another Wells Co. school at their place as a neutral site! 

My money is on the younger Brother.  He has that "kiddo strength and a purpose" IMO...Also has a dude (me) with a folding chair ....just in case!   

Just go to Huntington North and avoid all of this!  OR wait a year and go to (FW) Wayne or (FW) South Side.