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BendNotBreak

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    Hoosier Conference 2023

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    2 hours ago, foxbat said:

    True, but West Lafayette always loses players from year to year, but the dropoff I saw last night was noticeable ... especially on offense.  Harrison probably had at least three or four times or more where they denied WL a fourth down conversion of three or less yards.  They also limited WL to zero points in the first half.  Harrison converted two turnovers into points and made WL lose their cool on a couple of occasions that led to points as well.  Even Harrison's 2nd string put up points.

    WL only mustered 85 yards rushing and only 111 in the air.  Had at least two personal foul that looked like they came from frustration after big plays and a defensive encroachment penalty that gave Harrison new life in their own territory.  By far, the night belonged to Harrison on "ooooh" kinds of hits both on offensive plays and special teams.  That typically doesn't happen to WL until they get to the likes of Brebeuf.

    Given what I saw in the LCC-Harrison scrimmage and what I saw from WL last night, albeit I'll certainly conceded that it might have been an anomaly, the LCC-WL game will be well-worth attending if you don't have folks don't have any home team plans.

    I'd think anything better than a 1-3 start for LCC is a win....

    • Like 1

    Should Sectionals be Gerrymanderd?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    1 minute ago, foxbat said:

    I think what @Bobref's getting at ... and by the way, he really does need to get that "Law of Unintended Consequences" copyrighted as it plays out so much in Indiana football and someone is bound to steal it and make a t-shirt with it ... is there's plenty of stuff that tends to be done that seemingly fixes a problem and/or, probably more importantly sometimes,  "sticks it to someone" only to see another bigger or similar issue pop up. 

    I got him making light of it... However:  It's gone on since day one.... "They" r well aware it's been n issue... Since Day 1  "They" have designed a Systemic System that perpetuates it.  I don't believe "They r that Ignorant"  It's way past time to Fix it..... 

    2A: Andrean vs Mater Dei

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

    It's plenty significant enough to make enrollment only classification not work in 2A and 3A.  The data speaks for itself......or folks can just keep telling themselves the disparity in championship appearances is because of some magical Catholic work ethic brought over the pond from hearty Irish ancestors.  There are plenty of publics with all the great things like feeder systems, supportive admin, supportive communities, quality facilities etc.....but they will always have that boat anchor of a significantly less homogenous student population.  There is a reason half the states or so have a multiplier, the data is similar all across the country.

    Check Irish.... It was the ITALIANS... 😊

    Should Sectionals be Gerrymanderd?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    41 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

    Splitting up the sectionals isn't working for moving privates either. If you look at 2A, not a single private was in the same sectional to my knowledge(one sectional might actually have one but for the most part they are pretty split up). It seems to me like all of those privates are just getting bottled up in 2A because they are winning their sectional, and then beating each other in the regional causing them to stay in 2A rather than move up or down. The place to be right now is 1A. After next year your going to have 2 private schools left in the reclassification, Park Tudor in the North possibly and Covenant Christian in the South more than likely(who knows how the IHSAA will form Sectionals). 

    I'd pupose it's less a "problem" than u think.... 2A "Catholic  programs" r LCC, Scecina, Andrean, MD, Luers, am i forgetting someone?  Of those, Luers is the so called "problem" Luers is on the cusp of 3A enrollment... MD has bounced up n down on enrollment... if ur a high enrollment school public or catholic/private, w a program, ur odds of winning a Title r enhanced. Enrollment alone may move up Luers and MD....  Andrean could SF up. Sooo next cycle u could very well c a very Diff 2A.... Triton Cen took care of the Scecina "problem" n LCCs low numbers will keep them in check along w Luth..... 3A becomes as u say "loaded" but who ther would b a "problem" Luers, Mish Marion, St Joe, Andrean, MD? vrs the likes of HHills, GS, WL, WB, Southridge, Lawrenceburg, others that slip my mind.... letting the SF and enrollment do its job to reach n equilibium would b preferable than as Lysander said Artificially keeping Chatard in 3A by Gerrymandering them into a Sec of Death... which I've witnessed them doing since day 1 .... Why is that?  Hmmmm.......

    Should Sectionals be Gerrymanderd?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    40 minutes ago, Lysander said:

    To be somewhat clear on this whole thread, I essentially ACCUSED the IHSAA of Gerrymandering in another thread to put all the P&Ps in the same sectional(s) whenever they possibly can.  My point was if they didn’t intentionally do this then the Success Factored teams might actually stay “up”.  Certainly the case with Chatard/Roncalli.

    Having Chatard go North in 4A and Roncalli stay South would arguably be the “non-Gerrymandered” (I am straining the King’s English to a breaking point here) result that would actually result in what most want (likely including Chatard) - Chatard to no longer be in 3A.

    My opinion has long been that the IHSAA had less of a problem in football with P&P’s overall than it had a specific problem with Chatard in 3A and Cathedral in any class excepting 6A.  Certainly the same could also be said of LCC in 1A.

    Well…they solved their Cathedral “problem”…..at least for the time being….even artificially shortening the “bump-up” timetable to do so.  They put LCC on a Sectional island…solving that problem.

    The Chatard 3A problem only required them to keep Chatard and Roncalli (and probably Chatard/New Pal these days) in separate sectionals.  It’s a very easy fix and, frankly, just the opposite of Gerrymandering.

    But the IHSAA does so love artificially eliminating P&P’s in Sectionals whenever possible that they continually lose sight of the Success Factor “big picture”.

    So, I would argue that the remaining P&P problem is an actual result of the IHSAA’s historic Gerrymandering.

    That.... is Unacceptable to Some...... for Some reason....

    Should Sectionals be Gerrymanderd?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    15 hours ago, foxbat said:

    Kind of depends on the year and class. 

    The first year LCC was in 2A, they we about 30 seconds short of winning a sectional and likely going to LOS in 2A.  The second year, they were within a field goal of taking RCHS's place at LOS ... and RCHS took a 45-21 blue ring over Mater Dei that year.  The next year, 2015, LCC dropped down to 1A and picked up a blue ring going undefeated through 1A and the Hoosier Conference.  In 2016, they fell by a missed extra point to state-runner up Pioneer.  The next year, in 1A, they were handled by Pioneer 48-20 and didn't get out of 1A sectional.  The next season, 2018, they were completely mauled by Pioneer 70-7, at home, and again didn't make it out of the sectional.  2019 saw three losses to three 3A schools, but a thrilling 1A blue ring in a 29-28 come-from-behind-win against Lutheran.  2020 saw a complete drubbing at the hands of South Adams in 1A 42-9 who ended up getting a red ring at LOS that year after losing a 41-40 decision.  SF bumped LCC to 2A in 2021 where they secured a sectional before being bounced by old 1A foe Scecina 34-13 and ending with an 8-5 record.  This year, they picked up another 2A sectional before succumbing to Andrean 30-12 and ending the season at 9-4.  In the five seasons before LCC ended up in 2A for a second time, they faced three different 1A for their last game of the season.  In they won one of those file games and that was by one point.  They lost one by one point.  And lost the other three games, to a pair of public schools, by an average differential of over 40 points.

    Again, kind of depends on the class and season.  In 2009 there was conjecture that LCC could have taken 3A.  In 2017 and 2018, they couldn't get out of sectionals in 1A.  In 2020 they kind of limped into semis and came out on crutches.  LCC will stay in 2A with its two sectionals and will play wherever the IHSAA sends them, but I think they are likely to probably end up seeing the bare minimum to stay in 2A for a few seasons to come with maybe a regional thrown in.  It will likely be a while before there's talk of LCC at the top of 2A like the potential that was there in 2013 and 2014.  Incidentally, Calpreps says this year LCC would be a 21-point underdog to AC, a 1-point underdog to North Decatur, a 1-point underdog to NJSP, and 25-point underdog to Lutheran.

    1A is a different animal... the low numbers make it extremely difficult for any one program to dominate indefinitely.... tho ther was no problem when Sheridan did it.....

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