Bash Riprock

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nobody “laid down” but Georgia WANTED to win that game and Bama NEEDED to win that game.

Big difference.

I understand that Bama had a loss going in, but they were the better team that day and proved it.  I am not so sure UGA wins the title game if Bama didn't lose their top 2 receivers.  They lost 2 big time playmakers.  That is tough to overcome.  Injuries are part of the game as we all know....but I don't put much into one HAD to win and the other WANTED to win.  A SEC title was at stake and that meant the world to both teams.  Every game was important to win to make it to their championship game.  

Bottom line, had UGA and Bama been in the same division, the conference and most likely national championship matchup never occurs.  

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

Can’t disagree.  But to prove my point look no farther than the SEC title game last year…

Maybe I am missing something.  SEC had division format and was fortunate to have 1 vs 2 in different divisions.  UGA had been pounding everyone, including blasting GA Tech 45-0 prior to the SEC Title game.  Bama meanwhile has a couple of tough games prior to the SEC title game to include Arkansas and a 2 pt OT win in the Iron Bowl.  Nobody was laying down.  Bama just took it to them and won the SEC title.  But both teams wanted it. Bama has some key injuries, UGA learns from their previous matchup and turns the table in the national title game.  

What I like about getting rid of divisions is the fact that the 2 best teams may be in the same division, yet one was eliminated prior making some of the championship games a yawner.  The new format should hopefully increase the chance of the 2 best teams slugging it out in the conference title game.  

33 minutes ago, temptation said:

They already do beat the snot out of each other annually while Wisconsin and Iowa get the red carpet rolled out on the opposite side and cruise to the championship game (unless Northwestern has an out of body experience).

Also if you have an undefeated or 1 loss UM/OSU heading into the annual Thanksgiving matchup and the opposing team wins creating a scenario where they’d play again the following weekend, the regular season contest loses its prestige.

If I know I have a spot in the conference title game wrapped up and will likely face the same opponent the following weekend, I’m playing much more conservatively and sitting anyone that’s questionable.

The only way it’d happen is if they moved “The Game” up earlier in the regular season and that isn’t happening.

If the SEC can figure it out, so can the Big 10.  Bama/Auburn, GA/FL, etc are just as big games.  Soon add Texas/Oklahoma to the list.  They will figure out how to keep those rivalries going along with the cash it will generate.  Where there is a will, there is a way.

Anything is better than the lopsided divisions they have now.  

1 hour ago, Irishman said:

I like it. It's an outside the box type of thing. The B!G really needs to look at this, as we all know how lopsided the two divisions are. 

I agree with you.  I didn't realize until reading the article that the PAC 12 and American conferences already did away with divisions.  According to the article, the SEC was also planning to do the same.  I think it would make the Big 10 much more interesting.  

42 minutes ago, temptation said:

The UM/O$U contest traditionally being on Thanksgiving weekend throws a wrench into any consideration for this.

It could potentially set up the same matchup two weeks in a row and takes meaning away from the first one.

As for the ACC, can’t wait to see Miami implode again.  They are getting their usual offseason hype with no substance (other than NIL).

Same with Texas.

 

I don't think so....if the Big 10 follows the ACC model, just ensure Michigan and Ohio State are partners.  Personally, I'd love to see Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State as partners so they could beat the snot out of each other annually.

This is interesting....thoughts?  Do you see other conferences following suit?  How will ND now factor into the ACC?  I don't see ND considered as a primary partner to any of the schools.  (see bottom of the article for partner schools)

https://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-state-football-fsu-seminoles/2022/6/28/23186485/acc-announces-new-football-scheduling-model-starting-2023-syracuse-miami-clemson-yearly-schedule

I think the Hoopeston Area High School in Illinois was pretty creative.....

https://www.commercial-news.com/sports/cornjerkers-bounce-back-to-beat-irish-snapping-17-game-losing-skid/article_97174896-0c7d-11ec-aa69-b7004b1197c2.html

Seems to be the trend......

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/10-schools-that-replaced-discriminatory-mascots-in-favor-of-wolves/

2 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’m actually on an airplane … but got the in-flight wi fi just so I could do that. 😂🤣

Well played sir!!!

8 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Would we expect differently from a Disney owned entity??

LOL...I knew it would take minutes to get that response Bob.....

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Sorta related:  Love the irony of ESPN promoting its “37 words” documentary just months after making their stances on the Lia Thomas controversy and Florida bill well known.

Modern hypocrisy.

Would we expect differently from a Disney owned entity??

I had to chuckle at his old quote I read in the newspaper this morning.....

"If I wanted to learn a school song, I would have gone to Notre Dame or Penn State.  I wanted to kill people on the football field.  That is why I went to Pitt."

What a personality.....the Goose was a legend.

https://www.socmedsean.com/thumpers-rule-knowing-when-and-how-to-avoid-an-online-argument/

1 hour ago, temptation said:

It doesn’t fail.  We just disagree on the degree of its impact.

perhaps that is a fairer statement....we concur they are variables, but may not align on their impact along with the other variables needed for sustained success.

I can get there with your statement...

You actually started 2 threads on contraction at the same time?

Bobref and YG...where are you??

2 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Yes. In the case of 2018, Jason Simmons was not hired until March. From December to March, the program had no leadership as many of Mike Kirschner's top assistants left for their own opportunities. Many of the others weren't sure if they wanted to come back. In effect, the program had no rudder. That, coupled with the loss of 52 seniors, in my opinion sunk Coach Simmons the first year. Yes, you can be rebuilding while retooling too.

I gotta align with BDG93.....

3 straight semi-states, running into a tough CG team each time isn't what I would call seasons of failure....Final 4 6A 3 years in a row?  And somehow that's bad?

2 of those years, they beat Brownsburg and Carmel in the regionals.....

29 minutes ago, temptation said:

It IS more than money and enrollment but those are still 1-2.

says you....but not me....FB16 has provided you too many examples of where that formula fails....but you "ain't" listening.....

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

That's what were doing at LCC.  I spent 18 years there and started before I even had boys.  Many of the guys who coached with me stayed on with the youth program even after their boys had moved on to junior high, then high school, and even after they graduated.  We had a guy who was a mainstay for a long time there, that had two girls and no boys, but spent over two decades coaching in the youth program.  We also had LCC alums who stayed in the area and went to Purdue or Ivy Tech come out and help us coach while in college.  If you can build that kind of culture, it's big.  The interesting part at LCC was that, while the varsity coaches were always supportive of the youth program ... always lending players to come talk to the kids, coming out to watch the games, helping with the use of the varsity field for games, they always left the running of the youth program to the guys that had been doing it.  As a courtesy, we'd always ask incoming coaches, if there's anything that they wanted us doing at that youth level and they all said, do what you've been doing, teach good/safe skills, and keep the kids engaged and having fun ... we'll teach them the plays when they get to varsity. 

A huge reason why LCC has been a premier program in the state for years.  Its about culture, and that starts young and it continues on when people that have graduated from the program wish to come back and continue to invest.  Yes, its about a feeder, but it beyond the feeder...its the level of involvement and the expectation for success that develops within the community.  That is why I contend, there are a number of variables when it comes to sustained successful HS programs....and its way more than $$ and enrollment.  As FB16 has stated and proven, those 2 variables by themselves do not guarantee success.  

On 6/15/2022 at 12:38 PM, DT said:

Does the following describe your high school football program?

 

Winning percentage of less than .200 over the past decade

 

Chronic coaching turnover as you are hiring your fifth staff over the last 10 years

 

Low turnout, lack of roster depth, and poor lower level numbers

 

Nonexistent feeder system

 

Apathetic administrative and community involvement

 

Poor equipment and facilities

 

Does your football program help fund other athletic teams at your school?

 

Does your football program lose money?

 

Does your student body come out and support the football team on Friday nights?

 

After answering all of these questions, ask yourself the following question.

 

Why haven't I recommended football contraction to my principal?

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, foxbat said:

A good, sustained youth program takes A LOT more than most people on the outside imagine ... especially beyond the stuff on the field.

That is a fact....but so many on the league BOD are former youth players, and former players under Coach Moore during his early years here...many on the 2000 state runner-up team.  Younger former players are already coaching...some with no kids in the league.  Other former players with no kids help with significant sponsorships to fund the program.  Ray Skillman's involvement and impact with the CGBFL has been beyond description.  Coach Moore has been heavily involved since day 1, and still is.  My prediction is that will remain even after he decides to do something else beside coach.  There is a culture for football in the land of Troy.  I don't worry one bit about the future......

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Reminds of the kid who was losing the pickup game, so he takes his ball and goes home. And if by “boring,” you mean it’s too complex a concept for you to understand, I find myself agreeing with you for once.

Hey Waldorf! Think what you want.....rather be that kid than a bitter old dude that can't let something go....

You're hi-jacking a thread with the same old song.....and I just don't want to go down your rabbit hole.  But nice closing try with the "you're not smart enough" to debate with me.....

10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I’ve got my handkerchief out, dabbing at the tears in my eyes at the great story of the 8-6 team that almost won a state championship. But as a counter to my argument, it fails miserably.

First, last time I looked the last team left standing this year will be crowned the “state champ for the 2022 season,” not the “2022 single elimination tournament held at the conclusion of the season champ.”

More importantly, whatever makes you think that CG’s team wouldn’t have made a playoff in which the top 1/2 of each class qualifies? This is simply a rehash of the “Northwood 2005” argument — that has been repeatedly debunked on these pages.

Besides, perhaps if those early season games counted toward playoff qualification, CG would have found a way to win a few more. Nothing like urgency to bring out the best in a team. Too bad our system doesn’t provide for that sort of intensity all season, instead of just the last 6 weeks. A lost opportunity.

you are going to feel the way you feel based on your personal experiences, and I the same.  I lived the old format here in Indiana.  I understand the disappointment first hand for a 7-2 team.  Now, I realize today's criteria may be significantly different.  

CG was a very young team that faced an absolute gauntlet their first 4 games...you know nothing about the team and their abilities over those games.  But they sure learned and developed.  Urgency...that's funny.  You obviously don't know anything about Coach Moore and his program.

I'm not playing this old game with you...quite frankly, that horse is gone and its boring.  And if you need to pull out the handkerchief and dab the tears from your eyes, try brushing your teeth....

Just now, Footballking16 said:

Using that particular year for Center Grove, they would have made every single postseason format that effectively cuts the field in half using some kind of combination of record, SOS, and opponent SOS. CG was a top 10-15 Sagarin team the entire year despite the slow start. 

Perhaps they would based on criteria established today....I haven't seen it.  But they sure wouldn't have made based upon the criteria back during my Indiana HS days....that I'm sure.

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Wait a minute! Every time I bring up the desirability of a playoff qualification system, because the “all in” tournament devalues the regular season, I’m told I’m crazy because “every game matters,” and “there’s no such thing as a meaningless game.” The “all in” tournament breeds exactly the attitude described above … which makes Indiana high school football less than what it could be.

Don't go overboard and I sure didn't mean to light this one up again.....

I was exaggarating a bit.  Of course teams want to win every game, and conference championships do matter.  But no one wants to be playing their best football at the beginning of the season...no one.  Keeping this conversation in context, I was responding to a given year that was quoted as a down year....thanks to the current system that recognizes improvement with a team, that team that faced a gauntlet earlier in the season and took their lumps, developed and went all the way to the 6A state championship game, almost pulling off a championship.  

If anything, that example smacks your theory right in the face.....and I would contend CG demonstrating improvement and playing in the state final, makes Indiana football far better than if they had been eliminated from the playoffs and was sitting at home.

46 minutes ago, temptation said:

You are once again twisting my words and speaking in hyperbole.  I said coaching matters.  It’s why CG is what it is and NC isn’t.  Their SES numbers have grown apart gradually but they aren’t all THAT different.

But even THE BEST coach in the world can’t turn Arsenal Tech into Center Grove.  Not to sound redundant but too many variables outside of what happens in the school house, practice or game field play a vital role.  The pandemic only widened that gap.

Plus, you can only put 11 on the field at a time so the Carmel argument you attempted to make doesn’t hold water.  Now if you want to talk depth, special teams and fresh bodies, I’m all on board with Carmel having a huge advantage.

CG is a contender more often than not.  They were 8-6 three years ago (got hot and made a run to state), had 4 losses two years before that and went .500 in 2017.

Like BD, you can’t let the run of sectional titles fool you.  CG has a bye to the regional annually.  As did BD.

Don't confuse speaking in hyperbole as not buying into the elixer you are peddling.

8-6...got hot?  Or perhaps young players developed by playing such a tough schedule and could have easily won another title.  So what a team loses 4 games....play their schedule and see how easy it is.  No one gives a fart about losses in the early season...its about how a team plays at the end, correct?  Of course every year won't be the same....but when you look at a number of years and study true trends vs single years, there is no doubt they are a contender.  What team dreams to play CG in the tournament?

Carmel....16 losses over the past 5 years.....8-5 in 2017.  One state title during the period.....haven't made it out of the regional the last 2 years.  Wait a minute....they have the numbers.....$$.....and a really good coach.......hmmmmmm.

38 minutes ago, BTF said:

The three largest schools do in fact win almost every year. Twenty seven state championships...........nine each.

Dick Dullaghan, Chris Geesman, nor Russ Isaacs stuck around forever. Neither will Eric Moore. 

So the equation for success is ......  Large enrollments x $$ = automatic success and championships.....unless, there is a HOF coach and that wipes out the formula.

Nothing else matters.....who knew it was so simple? Expand school enrollments and find some $$.

Carmel....crown them!!  Game over.  (exception Cathedral since they are private...forget about that adjustment to the success formula)