Bash Riprock
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Posts posted by Bash Riprock
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1 hour ago, Titan32 said:
I think the recent change that allowed all coaches to vote .vs when there were only 10 per class has removed the bias that (may or may not) have existed before.
But the bias wasn't about central Indiana...at least of what I read. It was about Kizer receiving all 10 votes by 1A and 2A coaches....which is what powered him to his victory. Voting in 3A and above was more balanced for both he and Bell. That is what I read that lead to the change. It was more based on coaches stacking the vote for candidates in certain classes, less about the geographical area.
Perhaps I missed what drove the change....let me know if I missed it.....
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31 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:
Lol.
You're right I don't need to prove anything, the prior award winners speak for themselves (and parallels everything I've stated). I said the Mr. Football award is usually biased towards players from Central IN and the largest class in my initial post and you have done absolutely nothing to contradict that statement. Knock yourself out though trying to show evidence otherwise.
And I will continue to say that purely looking at numbers from 1992 mean nothing statistically. Especially when the largest populations, overall largest schools and majority of the top programs/players come from central Indiana. You might want to consider basic probability in predicting outcomes.
Actually, you do have something to prove. You are the once with the bias theory..not me .I am asking you to list Mr. Football winners from Indy metro area that were undeserving and the recepients should have come from other parts of the state. Instead of making wide generic accusations of bias, I challenge you to be specific and prove your bias theory. When you can start to list examples, then we can start to have meaningful discussions.
Ball in your court....your bias theory has been challenged. Take a breath, try not to get triggered, fight off the urge to insult, and provide proof. My challenge is that the coaches across this state are not biased to select winners from the Indy metro area.
6 minutes ago, Grover said:C’mon man! I edited it on the LB. Just thought it was interesting that neither was 6A and neither from the Indy area.
that was the point he chose to avoid..........
18 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:I won't name names but some people (because I apparently already rail on him to hard) are too dumb for their own good.
Love it when you get stumped...that is the best you can offer...such a child.
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25 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:
The award has bias towards it and has for years and frankly don't give a Sh*t if you agree with me or not. That isn't my problem.
You absolutely have proved nothing...other than getting triggered as usual when you run into someone that doesn't buy what you are trying to sell. First you blame the IndyStar...and then when called out by me and others for that being false, you evidently believe now the coaches are biased for the Indy area. As if coaches across the state can't think for themselves. Your application of statistics is beyond laughable....you are no expert in that arena.
Another approach would be offering up players from outside the Indy region that were worthy of the award and lost out to Indy area players....that would have been a strong start in lieu of making unfounded accusations.
You must give a sh*t as to what I think...because you stop yourself from the childish responses.
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Just now, Footballking16 said:
Romeir Elliott DID make the list. He was Mr. Football for the Running Back position that year and was one of the finalist. We are talking about one year in the nearly 30 years the award has been given. Perhaps we call 2018 an outlier? Do you know what an outlier is?
Bottom line, more than half the award winners have come from central Indiana and 14 of the 29 winners have all come from the largest class. When there are 5 (now 6 classes) and one class has nearly 50% of the winners its hard not to conclude there is some kind of bias. Just stating facts, don't shoot the messenger.
Sorry...I meant the final 2...
Do you know what an outlier is? You just provided 2 examples over a relative short period with Warren Central alone.
So you understand the concept of populations to include the locations of the best overall football programs in the state churning out not only the largest volume of players but the largest % of the best overall all around players and programs, right?
You may not corner the market on statistics....then again, its not really statistics to claim the IndyStar influences the voting coaches across the state....that is more of a conspiracy theory......
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32 minutes ago, Grover said:
Russ Yeast should have won in 2016 but the voters went with the QB instead.
Absolutely.....the claim is that the award isn't based upon a career, but it didn't help Yeast that he only played one season in Indiana. Far and away, the best all around player in the state of Indiana (offense, defense and special teams) and won the Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year. Helped his team all the way to the state finals with a crushing OT loss, while the QB that won it played on a team that never won a sectional. (I believe)
BTW, congrats to Yeast making 1st Team All Big 12 playing safety for Kansas State this year.
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3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:
You could make an argument that David Bell wasn't even the most deserving player on his own TEAM that year. Romeir Elliott rushed for 3100 yards and scored 41 TD's that year. Only one other largest class player has ever rushed for 3,000+ yards in a single season, Shakir Bell who was also snubbed of the award.
How does that support your argument that the Indy metro area is favored by the IndyStar (which according to you influences the vote of the coaches across the state) when not only is David Bell not selected, but his teammate Romeir Elliott didn't even make the list? You further make a true statement about Shakir Bell being snubbed in 2009/10. These examples you provided don't support your claim of the Indy metro bias by the IndyStar......
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I was on the John Harrell site (thank you John for amazing info) at the 2020 and 2021 Center Grove seasons, in which the team went 28-0 and won consecutive class 6A state championships. Pretty interesting data.
Head to Head (CG victories)
Ben Davis 4-0
Warren Central 3-0
Lawrence North 3-0
Carmel 2-0
Cathedral 2-0
Westfield 2-0
North Central 2-0
Indpls Pike 2-0
Lawrence Central 2-0
Decatur Central 2-0
Columbus North 2-0
Franklin Central 1-0
Columbus East 1-0
Total 28 Wins 0 Losses
2020 - 589 points scored and 107 points given up. 42.1 points/game scored; 7.6 points/game allowed
2021 - 571 points scored and 154 points allowed. 40.8 points/game scored; 11.0 points/game allowed
Total - 1160 points scored and 261 points allowed. 41.4 points/game scored; 9.3 points/game allowed
Note: Both seasons were in the running clock era. Also, a number of points scored against the Trojans occurred after starters were pulled.
I am not sure where that places the Trojans 2 year performance in Indiana football history, but it has to be up there among the best, especially playing in the MIC against stellar athletes and excellent coaches. I guess that is up for debate.
Congrats Trojans football, Coach Eric Moore and staff for what you accomplished!! May be awhile before this type of streak is repeated.
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2 hours ago, CaptainHook said:
This is very accurate. Gotta be proactive in getting noticed. Get to a camp or two that record height, weight, and speed. Or run track. Send your film to the coaches of schools that interest you, but you gotta be realistic about finding your level. Twitter is a fantastic recruiting tool. Go to individual school camps if they show interest.
The biggest thing is having coaches come through your high school door and your head coach putting film in front of them. I do not think my son would be where he is if a lot of coaches hadn't stopped in to see the kid that scored 70 touchdowns in a season.
I don't know...your son was a lot of fun to watch on the field from his safety position....until he played CG. That wasn't fun at all!! 😄
Its great to see him doing so well at Toledo!!
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On 11/29/2021 at 9:51 PM, Whiting89 said:
Now a days does it really matter? You got the transfer portal if you are good enough you can transfer up no problem. Just don’t go to Air Force they don’t pass the ball.
unless you think you have pro potential, any academy is a great option. Service to country, a degree that will last a lifetime, and a network that will benefit a person their entire life. Plus, the academies play at some great venues. But I understand the academies are not for everyone.
More than stats.....
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14 hours ago, southend said:
Yea, but I’m not sure why he is choosing to leave? The Indiana coaching staff gave him Carte blanc as far as opportunities to be the starter. Too bad he has to dump on Indiana. Not a good look for Penix.
In fairness to Penix, we don't know the message he received. He may have been flat out told he did not factor into the plans....the same message Peyton Ramsey was given when Penix replaced him and he finished his career at Northwestern.
Looks like the Hoosiers have named a new offensive coordinator. Thoughts?
https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/report-iu-football-to-hire-walt-bell-as-next-offensive-coordinator/
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2 hours ago, Bobref said:
I’m hearing Fiesta Bowl vs. Oklahoma State. That’s a great matchup.
Would be last game for Indy Chatard's Danny Godlevske, C for OK State, assuming he's cleared from his broken foot injury about a month ago.
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On 11/29/2021 at 10:46 AM, FastpacedO said:
1.) I didn't see egregious players with no mouthpiece in. Are you sure your aren't over exaggerating.
2.) I will have to look into this not sure what you are refering too.
3.) So would you say it was targeting? Honestly we all had benefit of replay. On the field though in live action I would have agreed with helmet call. Sure when you do the replay it may not have been but that wasn't a benefit to the officials during the game in live action and there is no Instant Replay in HS football.
4.) You said it.
My only question for you is if you feel you are so perfect and enjoy calling out officials (some by name) why aren't you a current NFL official (serious question). My personal feeling is you are a current official, you are upset your crew wasn't on the field doing a game. Therefor you are hypercritical of the crews that were selected and pointing out some errors and calling out officials by name with an axe to grind. Perhaps your crew made more errors in other games and that is the reason you were not selected for the State Championship, but perhaps not. I have no idea on that but I think your posts have been in poor taste with an axe to grind and it shows. No offense but an observation from someone who has nothing to do with officiating.
@Bobrefwhile he and I haven't always agreed on everything. He is at least forthcoming and honest. @Yuccaguyclaimed not to be perfect (no crew is) but I thought they did a fantastic job. You seem to want more respect for your crew (if my hunch is correct), but you are failing miserably in gaining it if that is the case. Be humble and plug away for next year.
There were some misses...there usually always is. But YG and his crew did a heck of a job. I can only see a couple of misses when having the benefit of watching the replay, sometimes several times. Crews are making those calls in real time and doing a great job. I also loved the way YG had control of the game...authoritative as he should be, but very positive...positive with the players and coaches. Easy to tell he is a former player that has a passion for this game. The players and the fans are very fortunate to have crews like YG's calling games...and especially the big ones!!
Very proud of my fellow Lutheran!!! Salute to you YG!!
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5 minutes ago, temptation said:
Not much ROOM left.
not sure if limiting inventory reduces price...usually the other way around. Limited supply with same or increased demand doesn't lower price. I guess the question is does demand drop?
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4 minutes ago, temptation said:
Their socioeconomic profile inches closer and closer to the MIC schools daily.
maybe...but when I look at median home list prices for Avon and other suburban areas, seems pretty darn comparable. Even though they are seeing growth now, you are predicting things to start declining??
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15 minutes ago, temptation said:
Yeah, let's listen to the guy who threw 6 feet of dirt on top of Brady Allen and Gibson Southern in the 2nd quarter just 7 days ago.
"Gibson Southern won't win. If they were good, they'd have the lead right now." Same logic.
As I stated above, Franklin Central and Avon. Bank on it. Just a matter of WHEN and not IF.
FC...maybe...but what is the driver for Avon to leave the HCC??
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It has been interesting to see how some of the top programs in the country when I was younger have fallen on hard times....and how others that were ok are now competing at the highest levels. It will be interesting see if these programs can ever return to what they once were....
Nebraska, Florida State, Miami, Penn State, Texas, Arkansas, Pitt, USC, Washington....will some of these programs return?
On the flip side, programs have risen that were average back in the day....Clemson, Oregon, Cincy (not sure if even average)
I guess both Bama and Georgia fell on some tougher times after Bryant and Dooley. Saban and Smart sure raised really good programs to great ones.
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15 hours ago, southend said:
This. The man is driven. National title is what he wants to get. Loyalty is out the door. There is no deception here. He is taking on the pressures of the big show. He knows how to get there. And it ain’t at the has been institution ND. (For football dominance), them days is over for the Irish. Unless there is a scandal involved, I expect him to win one title befor retirement.
Who knew BK was a southern cajun man? That accent at the LSU arena last night....wow!!!
I expect by next season, he will put Coach Farmer Fran to shame. Let's go MudDogs!!
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1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:
I get your sentiment with these posts and Brady Allen is a terrific QB. I do have one question have you watched much of Caden Curry (aside from State Championship games the last 3 years)? He definitely has been a catalyst of Center Grove's defense being dominant the last 3 years. I won't deny there have been other very good defensive players for CG over the last 3 years (like Booker). Just keep in mind his presence even when he isn't the one making a tackle has drawn double and triple team opening up TFL's for LB's or other D-lineman. There is a reason Curry is recruited by the P5 schools he is and he is a freakish big athlete.
He may not win the award because of the way QB, RB, or WR stats are looked at compared to a defensive lineman. Curry though is extremely impressive and shouldn't be downplayed. He is 100% deserving of Mr. Football award as is Brady Allen. I would bet Allen will win due to Offensive stats. It is what it is when it comes to these awards. I am definitely curious to see where Curry chooses to play Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State (I personally feel it will be Ohio State but that is just a hunch I have), but it is a testament to his ability that he is getting looked at by all of those schools.
Both of your posts are spot on. I am not tearing down Allen...he's tremendous. We know this award (although not supposed to be) is just like the Heisman voting. The focus is on offensive players, especially QB's. Allen is an incredible "Offensive" football player....playing a solid 3A schedule. His team (a very good one with talented players) won the 3A championship with Allen having a really good game. (5 TD's and 3 interceptions) Those are the facts.
Curry is a 4 year starter....started in the MIC, which is the best conference in the state for football and is consistently nationally ranked. He goes up against the top players pound for pound in the state and excels in all 3 phases of the game. He is the best ALL-AROUND football player in the state. (tackling, blocking, running, catching, long snapping, and other special teams) Given his physical attributes and his play, that is why so many top Power 5 schools have offered him.
Both players are great. To try and compare them statistically given the positions they play, the value they bring, the competition they play, and sides of the ball they play is totally apples to oranges. Its silly. I question a person's football acumen when they attempt to do so. (or strike it up to emotion vs knowledge)
QB's and offense wins this award and has with the exception of once since the origin of this award. I don't expect it to be any different this year.
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9 hours ago, Footballking16 said:
The coaches do.
Thank you for confirming what we all knew.....
Yea, I am sure the IndyStar influences the heck out of high school football coaches..especially outside of the Indy metro area. Good to know the voters are subject to an organization doing the thinking for them and the IFCA.
Perhaps, statistically since 1992 more of the top players out of the state came from the most populated area of the state....crazy thought huh? 🤪
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5 hours ago, Footballking16 said:
It's the Indianapolis Star Mr. Football award....
I know the name of the award. But who does the voting??? Who actually determines the outcome??
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4 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:
Speak for yourself lol cuz I clearly just read someone trying to downplay having 8 D1 players instead of 10 and saying that was normal….and pointing out that not all are P5 offers like that matters.
definitely not ignoring the team but nice try at trying to flip my argument back at me…won’t work. I have been nothing but uplifting when it comes to the surrounding team at GS…..every year.
I don’t think you have watched Allen that much this year because he has had to throw on the run and evade pressure so many times….that’s what happens when you play a 5A+ schedule as a 3A school. In the state championship game alone there were probably 10+ passes completed just because Allen was able to extend plays and then put the ball exactly where it needed to be. The play of the game was him throwing a laser on 4th and goal from the 21 yard line in between 3 defenders right at eye level for the receiver. Couldn’t have been thrown better and it was the go ahead score
This is how I KNOW you didn’t watch Gibson Southern or follow that much.
GS put a running clock on all but 3 opponents. Allen played the 4th QTR of like 4 games total….played only the first half of probably 8…..if he played the full game every game, you would probably be looking at a 6000 yards 70 passing TD season….against a schedule more difficult than what most of 5A faces.
I know 6 things….
1. I’m not your cuz
2. Allen is an excellent player
3. Reviewed GS schedule It’s not more difficult than what most 5A schools play
4. Allen plays offense only
5. I’m not downplaying anyone
6. Anyone that wants to talk stats only hasn’t really played the game…they lack understanding
You need to relax and chill. Enjoy the title.
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36 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:
The fact that a Center Grove player won last year won't make a lick of a difference. The IndyStar loves giving the award to a large class player from Metro Indy.
I thought the IFCA awards Mr. Football...not the IndyStar
Metro Indy (Marion and donut counties) have won 15 of the 29 Mr. Footballs since 1992.
43 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:He does have impressive stats for a Defensive Lineman on a 3 man front.
Keep in mind, he didn't play a ton in the second half of most games given the margin of victory in a running clock era.....
That's another reason pure stats don't always tell the story
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1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:
10 or so…..I’m so wrong it’s only 8….omg the horror.
CG fans pushing down the rest of the roster to make the case for Curry is all anyone needs to know. Never seen fans discredit the talent on their team for specific player to get an award like this before.
problem is, Curry didn’t have the statistical season needed to make the arguments against Brady….which is why we see the arguments framed around team achievements like going 28-0.
not one of you has mentioned his actual statistics here…not the 86 or something career TFLs….not his 27 or so career sacks….nope…it’s “back2back….28-0….3 finals appearances”….team accomplishments.
Curry is amazing and has produced great numbers…let your arguments be around what he has done.
No one is pushing anyone down. And with all due respect, if you think football for a defensive lineman, who also plays offense and special teams having impact is all about stats trying to compare them to a QB, then my best guess is that you have never played the game. Its silly.
It is a team game....Allen doesn't succeed to the level he has without a fantastic Oline, excellent receivers, a balanced running game, and a defense that gets him the ball back. He doesn't do it alone...not by a long shot.
You are ignoring the team around Allen, not giving them the credit they deserve for his success. I can only bet he doesn't feel the way you do.
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1 hour ago, StatQueen said:
Hard Truth is Hard to Swallow... doesn't make it false.
FAKE NEWS!! This has to stop, I hear this crap all the time about various schools. So I had to confirm it. The falsity in "10 or so...". WRONG.
CG 2020 D1 Scholarship players =3 (1 power 5) (Booker, JackSchott, Steele)
CG 2021 D1 Scholarship players = 5 (3 power 5) (Jackson, JamesSchott, Curry, Carroll (played 4 games), Bennett (FCS))
This is equivalent to most top tier MIC and HCC and Catholic programs in most years. So all those schools should be "expected" to win championships ever year!!! No way, cause they are competing against eachother.
Curry = Best Player = Mr. Football
to be fair....
2021 - Add Buras (Ball State), Weems (FCS)
Some PWO's each year as well to Power 5 schools. Also 2020 team had some D2 and FCS non-scholarship players, NAIA Marion, etc.
Brady Allen: Mr. Football case
in The Indiana High School Football Forum
Posted · Edited by Bash Riprock
Your talking about exposure from the state's largest publication. So you don't think those same coaches read what sportswriters have to say in more regional newspapers in Bloomington, Evansville, Fort Wayne, the region, South Bend, Louisville metro, etc.? I lived in southern Indiana...if there is bias, it can actually work the other way. People may not care as much about Indy as you think and in some cases, it may even lead to disdain for the area. Varsity coaches think for themselves way more than you are giving them credit. You are merely speculating bias, with zero evidence. I don't believe coaches that are voting are lazy. Coaches in all classes voted for Kiser....and I am willing to bet he earned a vote or two across the state, including central Indiana.
I am going to ask you again, although its wasted breath. Can you name any Mr. Footballs from central Indiana (metro Indpls) that should not have received the award and should have gone to someone outside the Indy metro area?? Just one.
Its probably easier to rant on and insult...But understand, others see that as intellectually lazy. Pedantic...nice word...
thank you for correcting