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Everything posted by Bobref
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Gibson Southern (10-0) at Owen Valley (10-0)
Bobref replied to Titan32's topic in The Indiana High School Football Forum
So, it sounds like a blocked field goal recovered by the defense behind the neutral zone and advanced. The ball remains alive. When the whistle was blown is really important. If it was blown after the kick was recovered, it belongs to the team in possession at the spot where the ball was when the whistle sounded. If it was blown while the ball was still loose following the blocked kick, it belongs to the kicking team at the previous spot and the down is replayed. Unfortunately, an inadvertent whistle following a blocked field goal is an all too familia scenario in high school. That’s because on a kick try — which is much more common than a field goal attempt — the ball is dead if the kick is blocked. The field goal mechanics call for communication between all crew members prior to the snap to acknowledge that “the ball remains alive.” -
Gibson Southern (10-0) at Owen Valley (10-0)
Bobref replied to Titan32's topic in The Indiana High School Football Forum
Sounds like an inadvertent whistle. What was the status of the ball at the time the whistle was blown? -
I wonder how many coaches are even aware that the NF publishes a coaches’ Code of Ethics, which includes: “The coach shall master the contest rules and shall teach them to his or her team members. The coach shall not seek an advantage by circumvention of the spirit or letter of the rules.”
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And that’s why we have clinics, and association meetings, and online presentations … and the GID officiating forum … to promote as much consistency as possible. But to be honest, on a play like this one intent isn’t that hard to judge.
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I am passionate about this. The reason: As an official you have to make a real effort to not know this rule interpretation, since it’s been out there for years and years. So, one lazy crew let’s someone get away with it, and then every crew the rest of the season that tells the coach he can’t do it suffers as a result. Same thing with sideline management. A few bad crews spoil it for the rest of us. i might add, this is the type of thing that shows the unfairness and downright irrationality of the coaches’ vote system.
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Don’t forget to signal your count and communicate the strength of the formation to your wings, so they can get their keys.
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First of all, you are dead wrong to characterize this as “officials rallying around someone and trying to defend his mistake.” No one has done anything of the sort. This was an egregious mistake. They happen. The challenge is to learn from them and get better … just like coaches, players, and people from all walks of life. Criticism? Yes, it comes with the job. And this crew deserves it. Let me change your last question a little bit. How would I have handled this if this had been a game I was assigned to observe? First, in the locker room following the game this would have been the #1 topic of our debriefing session. And the discussion would be very frank. It is in no one’s interest to sugarcoat it. Then I would talk with them about how the other members of the crew might have been able to prevent this. There is a backup for almost every job on the crew. We would not leave the locker room until everyone on the crew had a clear understanding of what happened, why it happened, and how to prevent it from happening in the future. The last thing I would do is try to help the crew mentally move past this. A mistake like this can have a lingering effect on a crew … and the easiest way to make a mistake out there is to be thinking about the last mistake you made. If you are asking whether there should be some sort of sanction against this official and/or the crew, in my judgment, that would serve no purpose at this point. This crew worked only the first round of the tournament in 2020 and 2021, but this year they got a second round assignment. So, someone believes they are getting better. The last thing you would want to do is take a playoff game away from them and stifle that trend of improvement. Instead, use this as a teaching moment. I’m glad they have another game. You don’t want this to be the memory you dwell on the entire off season.
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This was inexcusable. There’s no defense for it. Having said that, it doesn’t help when fans like you make statements like this, which portray the back judge as a guy just standing around with his thumb up his a$$. In reality the back judge has a number of pre-snap responsibilities in addition to counting the defense, just like everyone else in the crew. Sometimes the hardest things to know are what you don’t know.
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You mean, as opposed to a dead virgin? 😵💫 Improvement is possible. I am living proof.
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Not everyone would agree. I have had very well respected and successful coaches tell me that if you aren’t pushing the rules envelope, you’re not trying hard enough. True story. It was a semistate game. In my conference with the visiting head coach, a Hall of Fame coach, I asked the standard question about trick plays or unusual formations. He described a play where they line up in their standard punt formation and then shift a ruin an attempt “to draw them offsides.” I explained why that was a false start. He told me they had run it 6 times that season and not been flagged once. I replied that if he ran it tonight, it would be a foul. Believe it or not, they tried it. We flagged it. They won the game in a cliffhanger, and went on to the finals. They tried the play again in the championship game … and got flagged for it.
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You have an unfair advantage in that regard. 😂🤣
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Demon Rum strikes again?
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Heritage Hills (6-4) @ Charlestown (10-0)
Bobref replied to HHPatriots's topic in The Indiana High School Football Forum
I have many stories about “digestive upsets” during games. 🤮🤢 I was working a short wing position in an NAIA playoff game in Findlay, OH. A player headed for my sideline between plays, and he was wobbling quite a bit. When he got within about 6 ft. of me, he went down into a face plant. I started toward him … and he looked up and projectile vomited all over my shoes! I’m not sure what the pregame meal was, but my best guess was Taco Bell. 🤣 -
This issue has been addressed previously, but like a bad penny it seems we’re unable to get rid of it. Had a coach contact me to ask my opinion on a play they use on 4th and less than 5 to try to make the defense encroach. They line up in punt formation, and then their linemen shift quickly from a 2 pt. to a 3 pt. stance. Here’s a video that demonstrates the technique: Lest there be any lingering doubt, this is a foul for a false start. Here’s what the rulebook says: “After the ball is ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if: a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap. b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.” The key to the proper ruling on this and similar plays is the speed at which the linemen go from their 2 pt. to the 3 pt. stance. Such an abrupt motion when the players are already set, “simulates action at the snap,” and is a foul. Of course, it is legal to shift while in punt formation, provided it is done in a deliberate fashion, and isn’t going to make anyone think that the play is starting. You still see this, and similar plays, with some frequency … because they work sometimes. If the play works, it’s because of an officiating mistake. And please don’t complain that it’s impossible to judge what Team A “intended.” Officials are asked to determine intent from a player’s actions all the time, e.g., intentional grounding. The bottom line is, this play is a foul by the offense in all of its many variations, because it is designed to produce a defensive encroachment foul. I just wish every officiating crew would get on board with this interpretation, since that is the only way to make this illegal tactic disappear.
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That is only marginally less likely than the back judge (as well as everyone on the sideline) missing it for 3 consecutive plays. 😂🤣
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Well, this is a breath of fresh air!
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Gibson Southern (10-0) at Owen Valley (10-0)
Bobref replied to Titan32's topic in The Indiana High School Football Forum
🤣😂😅 -
Hoosier Hills Conference
Bobref replied to starbacker's topic in The Indiana High School Football Forum
Yes, there are rules at other levels that provide for time to be taken off the game clock in certain situations. But we don’t have any of those at the high school level. -
🤣😂😅
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Maybe that’s true from the sidelines. But not from the back judge’s position. And he is required to count the defense every play, and signal his count to the wing officials. Lots of blame to go around.
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Gibson Southern (10-0) at Owen Valley (10-0)
Bobref replied to Titan32's topic in The Indiana High School Football Forum
I’m your huckleberry. -
That is up to Asst. Commissioner Faulkens. I know of instances where an egregious error resulted in the crew’s playoff run being terminated prematurely. This particular crew, by history, only gets one game in the tournament anyway.
