Bobref

Punt. Returner muffs the kick at about the 7 yd. line. Turns around on a muddy field to recover it, and accidentally kicks it. Subsequently touched by multiple players of both teams, and winds up in the end zone where a member of the kicking team falls on it. They go crazy. After talking to my back judge, I step out and give the touchback signal … and they go crazy again. So, I head over to the kickers’ head coach to explain, and the defensive coordinator meets me at the numbers. “Hey, they touched the ball first and then we recovered in the end zone!” I barely slow down as I walk right past him and say “you’re exactly right, Coach.” He was dumbstruck, as I went on to explain to the head coach why it wasn’t a TD.

I agree with your view, to a point. It is perfectly acceptable - even encouraged - for the crew to huddle in a situation like this. Obviously a critical play. Also, obviously a very unusual play. Typically, the Referee will consult the rest of the crew to make sure he has all relevant information before making a ruling. So, a so-called “late flag” is not an issue here. But I agree with you that the crew should have excluded everyone from their crew huddle before their decision was made. Regardless of what was said, the optics were terrible. And optics are a big part of selling the legitimacy of a big call like that.

And this morning that win over Louisville is also looking better, as the Cardinals went in to Clemson and made Dabo cry!

Let’s see if we can’t wrap this up. The assumption is that the facemask foul by A took place behind the spot where the ball became dead when the runner went out of bounds. First, we address the live ball foul. Go back to the spot of the facemask foul, and go back 15 yds. assuming it was a personal foul and not a 5 yd. facemask. Second, now that we’ve enforced the penalty for the live ball foul, we look at the chains. If the ball is beyond the line to gain, it’s a 1st down. If the ball is not beyond the LTG, then the down counts. Finally, we address the dead ball foul. It’s 15 yds. against Team B, enforced from the spot after the live ball foul’s enforcement. If that takes the ball beyond the LTG, then it’s a 1st & 10 for Team A there. If it’s not beyond the LTG, play the next down. Regardless, the clock will start on the snap.

Just a guess, but there were reports that the Brebeuf AD was one of the people who confronted the officials on the field after the play was over, but before the ruling was made.

As described by you, that’s an incorrect enforcement. You have a live ball foul and an unsportsmanlike conduct foul, which is always enforced as a dead ball foul. So, the penalties for both fouls are enforced. They are not combined to create multiple fouls.

I have a Homecoming/Girls’ Locker Room story from many years ago. But I have to check and make sure the statute of limitations has run before I tell it. 😉

So many stories like this …. Once we were told we had to dress in the room where the marching band stored some instruments. Some band members came in unannounced about an hour and 15 minutes before game time. I’m pretty sure most of them made it through psychotherapy and are now leading useful lives.

Had you taken the time to read any of the half dozen or so posts I’ve made on this subject, on this and other threads, you’d know that I’m on record as saying this was a mistake by the crew. After seeing the video, my opinion is that the proper foul, if any were to be called, would be unsportsmanlike conduct on Danville, not illegal participation. Since UNS is enforced like a dead ball foul, the play counts and the game is over. Now, so much for my being a “ref apologist,” a “moron,” or “asinine.” Let’s see if you’ve got the sack to do the right thing.

Strictly from a rules standpoint, a sideline warning and a coach being on the field are two unrelated situations governed by different rules with different penalties. So, I guess I don’t get your point.

In both cases you would assess the 5 yd. penalty from the spot of the illegal pass. If, after enforcement, it still leaves the ball beyond the line to gain, it’s a 1st down for A. If enforcement leaves it short of the line to gain, then it’s next down.

🤣

They did not.

At the end of the game, the Referee holds up the football, signifying the period is over. Maybe in college or the NFL, but not in high school.

No drones allowed during the tournament.

What was your ruling?

Given the numbers situation, it would take something really egregious — and I don’t mean “that’s the worst call I’ve ever seen” egregious — to take someone off the field. The far better response for an error in officiating judgment and/or rules application is education and training.

Just my opinion, but I believe (after watching the video numerous times) the correct call would have been unsportsmanlike conduct on the Danville bench. That penalty would not actually have been enforced, since it is enforced after the result of the play stands, which would have ended the game. The key is that none of the people coming off the bench participated in the play.

IHSAA bylaws provide that, in all contests, there can be no appeal of an official’s decision, which is binding and final. Rule 9-5, 9-24.

The rule provides that contact against the kicker is a foul, but there are 4 instances in which contact is excused, one of which is “The defense touches the kick near the kicker and contact is unavoidable.” In this play, the contact would be excused.

That is not accurate. If a player runs backwards or sideways out of bounds, without contact by an opponent, the game clock stops and doesn’t start again until the snap. It’s only when forward progress is stopped inbounds by contact, and the runner then goes backwards or sideways out of bounds, that the clock continues to run.

Thank you for your very thoughtful explanation. There are a number of significant points you make, but I’ll only address one, or we’ll be here all day. Just my opinion: Except for a handful of really elite crews, the ratings calculated to determine playoff advancement have only a very loose correlation with officiating proficiency. Go ahead, change my mind.

I see crews from all over the state. I don’t get whatever point you’re trying to make here. Could you explain your thoughts in a little more detail?