BTF

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

I see your argument here dude but you’ve got to let it go.

Based on what you saw last night, do you really want to see ND take a 30 point beat down at the hands of Alabama?

Venables had Rees guessing all night.  It was men against boys.  Bama will do the same.

If I’m an ND fan, I take my NY6 bowl game, in which I should be favored and continue to sell a positive trajectory to recruits after a big bowl win.

As for OSU, Day didn’t remember he had a running game that was averaging 7 yards per carry until the second half.  His pass first mentality blinded him to the fact that the winning game plan was pretty simple.  I’m betting he was overconfident and was seeking style points early, and then it just became about winning the game in the second half.  They nearly covered the spread despite sleep walking through two-thirds of the game on offense and missing 22 players.

They may be a notch below Clemson and Bama but they are the closest competitor.  

So is it "dude" or "chief"? Make up your mind disrespectful young one. I'm not sure if you've ever had any mentors in your life, but someone needs to tell you to quit referring to people in that manor. I will continue to discuss football with you as you seem to have a pretty solid grip on reality when it comes to the sport. 

Notre Dame should be in the playoff based on principle. Their resume is better than anyone else's. Will Notre Dame get waxed by Alabama? There is a good chance of that happening. The safe bet is to take the NY6 game like you suggest and end on a positive note. I get that and it would probably be the best thing for Notre Dame. But who in the hell wants to see a repeat of Alabama blowing A&M out? 

If it's not broke, don't fix it. When your team is averaging over 5 yards per carry, there isn't much point in keeping the defense honest when you have an offensive line capable of bullying their opponent. I've been saying that for decades. 

Say what you want, but Ohio State won't do any better than Notre Dame against Clemson. Take that to the bank and get back to me when it's over. 

9 hours ago, Irishman said:

There are a lot of nay sayers who will make ridiculous comments like ND was overrated, should have never been where they were, etc. But the fact is that you can plug any team into the 4th spot in the CFP rankings, and they face the same outcome. The gap between those 3 top teams and everyone else is so wide, it does not matter if it is Iowa State, ND, Florida, etc.......any number of teams, they will get throttled by any of those top 3 programs. The reality was that ND earned this spot. Another fact is that ND was exposed as far as just how wide the gap from the top 3 to the rest is. 

Do we honestly believe there is a gap between Ohio State and everyone else? I understand that Clemson, Alabama, and Ohio State have almost all of the 5 star football players. But Alabama and Clemson have Nick Saban and Dabo Swinney. I think the Buckeyes fit in nicely with Notre Dame, Texas A&M, and Florida. They don't deserve to be put on a pedestal with the best. Ohio State won't be any more competitive against Clemson than the Irish were last night. 

So who should Alabama play in the first round? A team they already beat by 4 touchdowns or a team that beat Clemson, beat a very good NC team, and was undefeated before facing arguably the best team in the country in a "revenge" game? 

6 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

I am fine with the "way too early predictions".  

But the issue with the conference as a whole, is that it is a CLOSED one as it relates to football.  The 3 privates are the benefactors of this system, IMO.  

It gives none of the larger publics any conception of how they relate to any of the other institutions outside of the area/conference/state.  So the playoffs become a crap-shoot for them.  

As for the privates, they always get the added bonus of then playing within the lower classification that they are assigned (playoffs);  After having gone through the grind of playing larger schools.  

Having said all that, it will always be the same thing:  Wash, Rinse, Repeat....year after year with the SAC!  

I assumed this thread was to see how SAC teams stacked up against one another. But I agree with every word of your post. 

4 hours ago, jakone said:

Who are teams going to play that will help them out? Indy area schools aren't going to travel to Ft. Wayne when they know it won't help them out they'll get better competition staying close to home.

Cathedral came up to play Snider less than a decade ago. I think you would be surprised. 

I'll take a stab at it.

Tier 1 - Any order is possible.

1.   Snider - With major D1 guys anchoring the offense and defense, a second year starter at QB, and an impressive RB...........I like Snider's chances at a victory bell and a deep run in 5A.

2.   Dwenger - I'm hearing they lose a lot. But they are still Dwenger and they still have Jason Garrett. 

3.   Homestead - The Spartans had a good two year run, but are they really at the same level as Snider and Dwenger as a program? Three years in a row might convince me. They do seem to have turned the corner after joining the SAC. 

Tier 2 - Any order is possible

4.   Luers - They didn't fair to well against the SAC's 6A big boys the last two years, but they've proved they can rumble with Homestead and Carroll in years past. I like their chances this year with several returning starters. 

5.   Carroll - They return a Division 1 caliber QB, but is there anything else left in the tank? He lost some phenomenal targets at wideout to graduation and they've never really had much of a defense. I'm not sold on the Chargers yet. 

6.   Concordia - As long as Tim Mannigel is calling the shots, I'll always give Concordia the benefit of the doubt. Although there is no shame at being ranked #6, I wouldn't be shocked if they finished in the 4 spot at seasons end.

7.   Northrop - I keep waiting for that break out year. Maybe I'm giving the Bruins too much credit. I feel like the Doerffler name carries some weight, but we're not seeing the results on the field yet. 

8.   Wayne - I'm still looking forward to seeing what Haydock can do with this team. Wayne has had some darn good teams in the past and there is no reason the new proven coach shouldn't get them back to a champion caliber level. If there is one pick that I'm wrong on, it's probably this one.

Tier 3 - Could go either way

9.   South Side - I'm going out on a limb on this one. I really liked the way they ended 2020.

10.  North Side - Losing their 3 star QB and head coach Mike Brevard will be too much to overcome. 

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Ok chief, not going down this rabbit hole.  
 

It’s irrelevant.

Chief? That worse than "hey, what's up Knight."

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Can’t really disagree but let’s pump the brakes on calling ISU “great” in 2019.

They were in the Champs Sports Bowl for a reason.

Cant have it both ways...

There was a lot of talk about how good they were going into the Notre Dame game.

#16 Iowa 18, ISU 17

#7 Baylor 23, ISU 21

#25 Oklahoma St 34, ISU 27

#4 Oklahoma 42, ISU 41

So that's four losses against ranked teams by a combined 11pts.

Notre Dame 33, ISU 9. The Irish beat them by 24. That's twice the number of the other four ranked teams combined. So either Notre Dame was really good last year and probably underrated, or ISU was highly overrated playing in an overrated conference. It's one or the other. 

Just now, temptation said:

Opens up an interesting debate:

Whom has embarrassed themselves in their playoff/championship opportunities more:  Notre Dame or the Big 12?

The Big 12.............it's an entire conference. ND is just one team. The Big 12 stinks and are overrated every year. Iowa State at #6 is the joke of the year. 

Just now, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

I understand the SEC bias but you can’t tell me (if everything plays out the way we think, Clemson, OSU, Bama win Saturday) that the playoff committee not to mention tv ratings would love to see Alabama vs Notre Dame and Ohio State vs Clemson. Does Texas A&M carry the same weight as OSU or ND? IMO they don’t.
As far as the past, there’s nothing you can do about it except win now. People will always remember the Bama game even tho it was 2012, Miami, Clemson twice, and of course Michigan a few seasons ago. It’s 2020, ND has been building towards this. The depth, the talent, and the coaching is way improved since 2012. 
 

Iowa State was great last year, they are great this year. ND 33, ISU 9........................crickets. 

Just now, temptation said:

The “fans” in my parts have usually flipped the page to IU basketball by this point in the year.

Lol. You live in Indiana. Notre Dame football, Indiana basketball. 

Just now, temptation said:

Ohio State had NO business being IN that game in 2016 but I’ll leave that for another thread.

(I’ll take that loss to my grave.)

To be honest, even though they are a rival of my favorite program, I’d like to see ND get another shot (though the “fans” around my parts would be unbearable).  They do things the right way, their kids go to class and they are rarely/ever involved in a scandal.

I know your not discriminating against them as a "hater" would. I appreciate your opinions, they are always well thought out. I just think this years ND team is a bit different. If they win this Saturday you'll have to subject yourself to the fans in your "parts." If they get wasted, ND fans around the country will want to bury their heads in the sand and endure another year of "getting embarrased", and "not belonging." I'd even be satisfied with a 14 point loss on Saturday. This is a revenge game for Clemson and they'll be as jacked up for this one as any they have played in over the last decade. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I'll take it a step further....10/10.  The talent discrepancy is one thing.  OSU is usually good for sleep walking through one game per season (still waiting on it to be Michigan, lol) and this was it.  They built a big lead and put things on cruise control.  Is their defense suspect?  Sure.  But in 2020 a good defense is secondary to a good offense when it comes to being elite.  You need a competent defense that can capitalize off of the opposition's mistakes, get an occasional stop (especially in the red zone, and create turnovers.

No, IU was playing flustered, then they woke up................8/10

27 minutes ago, temptation said:

The Irish have been flat out embarrassed in their previous two trips (2012/2018).

2012 was eight years ago, so anyone with a brain would leave that out of the equation. In 2018 Notre Dame lost to Clemson (supposedly the best team of all time) by the same margin of defeat as Alabama. Not really fair to judge ND what they did in 2018 against the "best team of all time." Funny how no one said anything in 2016 when Ohio State was embarrassed by Clemson. They always get a pass, lol. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I have NEVER disagreed, but your opinion and my opinion DOES not matter.  The SEC is and always has been king.

Do I want to see Bama/A&M part two?  Nope.  Will there be pressure for the CFP committee to make it happen on Saturday evening/Sunday morning?  Yep.

I get what you are saying. 

1 minute ago, DT said:

This OSU team is not as talented as the past few seasons.  They have lost a ton of talent to early NFL draft picks.  Even given that, they are a roster loaded with 4 and 5 star talent while IU is stocked with 2 and 3 star players.  OSU would beat IU 9 out of 10 times IMO.  I think they played poorly that day.  their season has been disrupted several times and they never reached full strength.  yet they are still so highly regarded that they almost get a playoff spot by default.  

I'm a little biased toward the Hoosiers, I admit. But I think Alabama, Clemson, and Notre Dame are in a different league right now. Bama and Clemson have explosive offenses while the Irish have an incredible defense. The Buckeyes lose to all three. 

What about the original purpose of this thread. Your thoughts on Iowa State? They don't have any good wins in my opinion. The Big 12 is weak. 

1 minute ago, DT said:

Indiana was behind OSU 35-7 early in the 3rd Qrt.  I turned off the game and went fishing.  I think Ohio State let up in the second half and gave up several uncharacteristic big plays.  I dont believe the game was as close as the final score indicated.

I would take both FL and GA as a 2TD favorite over IU, on any field.  There is such a huge talent disrecpency between these rosters that the game should not be close.  IUs pixxy dust is about to run out.  Congrats on a great season, but the record is more indicative of a very weak and COVID impacted schedule than a very strong IU football team

 

 

Indiana looked flustered and unprepared for a game of that magnitude. Not a slam on the coaching, it's just that they aren't used to being in a spotlight game like that. Once they got their bearings straight, they pretty much dominated the Buckeyes. Can we agree that IU has a better defense than OSU? That both teams have explosive offenses..........a decent edge going to the Buckeyes? Of course I'm speaking of IU with a healthy Penix. I personally feel like Ohio State is overrated and aren't much better, if at all, than Florida and A&M. 

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

Still say the Clemson/ND loser is OUT.

If Notre Dame loses by 10 points to Clemson, their resume is still stronger than anyone else, including Ohio State.

49 minutes ago, Bobref said:

That’s a very interesting scenario. Do you think the outcry that would result from a 2-loss non conference champion Clemson getting in would be a catalyst for expanding the field, changing the process, etc.?

There is a wide gap between a two loss Clemson team (both close games) and Texas A&M.

I think Cincinnati and Coastal are catalysts for expanding the field. With an 8 team field, you could guarantee two spots for non-power five teams. One stipulation though. They have to be undefeated to reserve their seat in the field. 

32 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Speculation. That’s all anyone has from this point forward. 

Here’s what I expect to happen:

Clemson will beat Notre Dame, OSU will beat Northwestern, Bama will beat Florida. The final order will be:

1.  Alabama 2. Clemson. 3. OSU. 4. Notre Dame.  Then, in the semis, Bama will beat ND, Clemson will beat OSU. In the finals, Bama crushes Clemson. In other words, chalk.

I agree with everything except the part where Bama crushes Clemson. That game would be a PK in my opinion. 

Something crazy will have to happen for anyone other than those four making the playoff. Where it gets iffy is if Notre Dame were to beat Clemson in another game that goes to the wire. At that point, Clemson is still in and plays Alabama. Notre Dame squares off with Ohio State. 

There is just too big of a resume gap after Alabama, Notre Dame, and Clemson. The media clearly loves Ohio State no matter what they do. It's hard to imagine one of those teams not in the Top 4. 

Clemson wouldn't have any problems with Ohio State. They'd probably drop 50 on that defense. I think it would be a 14-21 point game. 

45 minutes ago, temptation said:

Everyone in America has ah asterisk next to ND’s win over Clemson.

Lol, of course. 

23 minutes ago, temptation said:

Depends on which station you watch.

The “Notre Dame/Clemson HAD their chance” rhetoric will begin Saturday around 6pm.

Check that box for Notre Dame then since they already beat Clemson. If Clemson wins, both Clemson and Notre Dame can boast a "better win" than any other team in the country. It's a four team show in my opinion. The only team with an iffy resume is Ohio State, but I don't see them losing to Northwestern. I guess we'll have to see how Saturday plays out. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

You obviously don’t know how this SEC thing works...

I think this year is the exception to the rule. It's pretty much been decided on a national level that the ACC has two of the best four teams in the country. 

25 minutes ago, temptation said:

Texas A&M will slide in regardless of this weekend's outcome in my opinion.  Are you going to potentially set up a THIRD game between Clemson and ND?  This weekend's game is a quarterfinal contest.

Texas A&M is out in my opinion. Here is why:

Alabama will beat Florida. Even if they don't........ They are in.

Ohio State will beat Northwestern. They are in.

Clemson will beat Notre Dame in a game decided by less than 17 points.. Both teams are in. 

No chance for Ohio State if they lose. Texas A&M slides in.

Notre Dame loses by 30+. Texas A&M slides in.

A Clemson loss by any amount. Texas A&M slides in. 

Confident, even though Clemson will be as jacked up for this game as they have for any in the past five years. I'm not saying the Irish are going to lose, but any margin of defeat up to 21 puts them in the playoffs. The debate comes at the mid 20's. Positive 28 could push them out in favor of a one loss or undefeated team. Two loss teams can forget it. 

As far as a prediction goes. It's hard to beat a great team twice. Clemson may want this one a little more than the Irish. Tigers by 7. 

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

I like this game.

1.  When you’ve only played FIVE games, three losses (regardless of who they are to) disqualifies you from being given the title of “good team.”

2.  Home teams just look flat more often than not.  The Big Ten boasts the CATHEDRAL’S of college football.  The BEST home field advantage in America when packed.  It’s not intimidating to go and play in front of 100k empty seats.

3.  Maybe IU does deserve some credit for PSU’s spiral but they had plenty of time to right the ship and failed to do so until it was too late.

4.  Non power 5’s always get screwed which is why the system is still broken and why the NCAA basketball tournament remains the greatest sporting event on Earth.  They’ll never have a prayer in a 4 team playoff.

5.  I too, was never much of a believer in Allen.

1.   So what qualifies you as a good football team out of 130 Division l programs? Can we agree on the Top 30, leaving the other 100 teams out? The teams Wisconsin lost to are ranked 11, 14, and 16 respectively. If you think only 16 teams should qualify for "good team" status, then you make a pretty good argument. However, Sagarin has Wisconsin as the 12th best team in the country. Wisconsin not a good team? Not buying it. 

2.   Agree. Home field advantage is not the same when there are no one in the stands. However, there's still that level of comfort playing on your own field rather than getting on a plane, sleeping in a hotel, and using the visitors locker room. Can we at least agree that there is SOME advantage?

3.   Agree. One game shouldn't dictate how you play the rest of the season. Notre Dame didn't collapse when Michigan handed it to them last year. Difference in coaching?

4.   That's sad. I would much rather see an undefeated Coastal or Cincinnati over a two loss Georgia, Florida, or Iowa State. Time for eight teams? Six Power Five (including independents) and two outside the Power 5?

5.   Hard not to be now. I hope he stays at IU no matter how much anyone throws at him. The grass isn't always greener. 

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

1.  A 2-3 record indicates that this is NOT "a good Wisconsin team."

2.  Road wins mean less in 2020 than ever and I could actually make a case that playing on the road is an ADVANTAGE in the current setup.

3.  Penn State is 3-5.  They are also not a good team that is worth boasting about.  Teams ARE what they ARE at this point in the season.

4.  I used to get upset about these things, but as I mentioned in the Notre Dame thread, SEC teams ALWAYS get a bump.  Hell, A&M is likely getting a free pass to the playoff despite not winning its OWN division after this weekend's games shake out.

5.  You used "Iowa State" in your title to simply push your "IU is getting screwed" agenda.  

6.  I couldn't care less that IU is a good football team.  Its actually pretty damn cool to see.

1.   Losing to Iowa, Indiana, and Northwestern doesn't necessarily disqualify them from Top 25 status.

2.   Not sure how you can make a case for getting on a bus or a plane and then sleeping in a hotel room being an advantage. 

3.   I don't recall boasting about Penn State. Although you could give IU credit for sending them on a downward spiral. 

4.   Agree. We'll find out how much that is justified this postseason. 

5.   False. I just think Iowa State at #6 is rather insulting. If you actually think I had an agenda, it would be more accurate to say "LA-Lafayette is getting screwed." They are the ones who beat ISU by two touchdowns, not IU. 

6.   I'm especially happy for Tom Allen. I always felt like he was a great individual. I also thought that IU blew it when hiring him. How wrong I was. 

Indiana's best win was on the road against a good Wisconsin team. They took Ohio State to the wire in Columbus. Everyone else they beat in convincing fashion other than Penn State. 

I'll take Georgia and Florida by 9 in IU's current state. I would give them both 3 against the Hoosiers if Penix were healthy. And I'm really giving those teams the benefit of the doubt since they are in the SEC. With any luck, we'll find out the real answer on New Years Day.  Not sure what any of this has to do with IU being better than Iowa State. 

I think most are still struggling with the idea that IU has a pretty darn good football team. Good offense, good defense. If we are talking "eye test," they pass with flying colors. Hard to deny that.