BTF
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Posts posted by BTF
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1 hour ago, temptation said:
Well, there is one program in Indy that also has 5 or 6. But to your point, it’d be players 7-30 who decided the game due to the sheer numbers advantage.
I too, thought the same about Carmel. Until I turned on the regional game against BD and saw that they had a converted WR thrown in at QB.
I think that is where the diminishing returns argument comes in. Maybe there really isn’t an advantage once you get above 2500 students?
Schools ranked 1,2,4,5 & 6 have won 20 of the last 25 state championships. All of those schools are north of 3400 students. Half of those 20 coming from schools ranked 1 & 2. Coincidence? I don't think so. Either enrollment plays a HUGE factor or kids born in those school districts are just naturally better football players. I'm going with the former.
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9 minutes ago, DE said:
Ft. Wayne "all-star team" vs. Indy "all-star team". Who wins?
Maybe I missed it, but why are you guys talking about 1 metro area "all-star team" (Ft. Wayne) competing against 1 metro area single high school (Indy area)?
You'd have to re-read through the whole thread. I don't remember how it got started. An Indy all star team beats a Fort Wayne all star team 80% of the time. It's a numbers game.
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5 minutes ago, temptation said:
I hear ya. But as someone pointed out in another thread, enrollment eventually hits a plateau and has a point of diminishing returns. You can only put 11 out there at a time.
(Example: CG (school of 2700) beat Carmel (school of 5200) by 42 points...)
How many FW/SAC kids are we talking that currently have D1 offers off the top of your head?
Five or six, but I have even begun to dig deep.
As far as enrollment goes, I feel that part of a coaches responsibility is to get kids at the school to buy into the program. Carmel is twice as likely as Center Grove to find a D1 quarterback roaming the halls. Exactly the same for every other position. The chances of everything is two times. Carmel wins the state championship every year in swimming, it shouldn't be any different in football.
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4 minutes ago, temptation said:
Fair points and I don’t necessarily think you are wrong but I’m just skeptical of the “mercy rule” that you are implying...that’s all.
It's a matter of opinion. Who know if the mercy rule would come into play or not. The top Indy teams are damn good (some of the best in the country apparently). Just not good enough to compete with a school of 15,247 kids.
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Just now, temptation said:
Common sense states they’d probably win...but running clock?
Absolutely. You're talking about a high school of 15,247 kids. That's basically what all of Fort Wayne equates to. With a half way decent coaching staff, they would win every single year. With a good coaching staff they win with a running clock. Fort Wayne produces it's fair share of athletes:
24 NFL players since 1980. Indianapolis has produced 2.7 times that of Fort Wayne, but the city of Indy is also 3.4 times larger. So per capita, Fort Wayne holds a slight edge. Point being...........both cities produce quality NFL players.
Fort Wayne put a team together in 2016 that won the National IMG 7 on 7. That was against teams from Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Texas, and others. They finished 3rd in 2013. I'm not sure they ever finished outside the top 15 out of 50+ teams. Again, lots of talent in this little city of 300,000.
I guess if I had to start with a roster I would start with two offensive linemen. Vinny Fiacable (Indiana commit) and DE Moore (offers from Texas A&M, Ohio State, Indiana, Penn State, and many more). I really don't have time to put together an entire roster and I shouldn't have too. The chances of of an Indy high school beating an All Star team from Fort Wayne is about the same as someone's suggestion that Center Grove could beat a Division III/NAIA team.................which is basically slim to none.
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19 minutes ago, temptation said:
Let’s do it!
Gimme a roster.
You don't need a roster, just use common sense.
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3 hours ago, temptation said:
I’d hope they could compete.
My question is would they win 6A?
Every single year. The best team in Indy would be mercy ruled early in the third quarter.
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6 minutes ago, US31 said:
In regards to "generate revenue"....how would less tournament games achieve this? I would piggy back this on top of the dismissal of "because we can".
I'm not disagreeing with much of your proposal, there is a lot to agree with from a football perspective. But if "we can" do an all in tournament, in order to "generate more revenue"....isn't that the responsible thing for the IHSAA to do?
I would definitely agree with anything that would get us "better games" (via seeding, neutral sites, rolling success factor, etc), but not necessarily "less games" for reasons above.
Good point. We should all agree on an all-in format as long as there is a seeding system that makes sense. The extra game would need to be afforded to 5A & 6A schools since they would have an extra week with the bye. That would allow the bigger schools in Fort Wayne an opportunity to play outside of their conference. Therefore, making the the Sagarin Ratings more relevant.
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34 minutes ago, Bobref said:
Here’s my dream system:
- 6 classes: 32 in 6A & 5A, 64 in 4A - 1A.
- Top 16 in 6A & 5A, top 32 in 4A - 1A make the playoffs.
- Ratings system similar to the Harbin system in Ohio, that takes into account both strength of schedule and won-loss record.
- 10 regular season games.
- 5 week tournament, with 6A and 5A getting a bye the first week, in which they are free to schedule another game if they choose.
- 8 sectionals in each class, teams grouped geographically, seeded in accordance with ratings.
- Higher seeded teams always have home field in sectional.
- Classes reseeded after sectional, divided into north and south, and then matched up 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, etc., in the regional and semistate, both of which are played at neutral sites. Explore the possibility of semistate “doubleheader’s” at suitable venues.
- Keep the Success Factor, but double the points needed to move up & stay up, and double the cycle to 4 yrs., using a rolling calculation.
By the way, one of the collateral benefits of the implementation of my system will be a doubling (at least) of the traffic on the GID. 😉
Change my mind.
Your system makes too much sense. I'm all in.
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30 minutes ago, psaboy said:
Hey, don't forget about the Lutherans !!!
All three of them?
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26 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:
Define 'The North', DT
My guess is a horizontal line going right underneath Lafayette.
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2 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:
They weren’t in 6A for SF points it was enrollment so points don’t matter. STATE LAW!
Lol, so they do drop to 5a..............got it. Thanks.
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2 hours ago, DT said:
I have not seen this report previously. It looks life an excel spreadsheet
What is the source?
Looks like Portage and Terre Haute are seeing significant enrollment declines
Not sure of the source, but it looks like someone put some effort into it. Looks like Merrillville remains anyway due to the 2 point rule. It's too bad, they are a better fit for 5A doing battle with Snider, Dwenger, and Valpo.
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6 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:
The super fan on Facebook says they want to stay in 6A but they are dropping because of enrollment. I swear to God he did.
Well, if Psaboy is correct, it looks like Merrillville might be 5A after all. And there is ZERO chance they choose to move up.
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5 minutes ago, psaboy said:
I believe your data is for current cycle that is now ending, imirite??
Looks like it.
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3 minutes ago, psaboy said:
Enrollment I saw them at is 36th??
25
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3 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:
Some guy that doesn’t know the difference between their, there and they’re is saying Merrillvilles is getting screwed by dropping back to 5A. Can’t they request to stay up? I know Scecina did in the early 2000’s and Seegers went down to 1A and was runner up and champs against Ritters both games. He said the state already toad them they couldn’t. Have the rules changed? I gotta go.
It's really a non-issue since they aren't dropping down to 5A. But Merrillville is one of those schools who will play where they are told. If they did happen to drop down to 5A, there is absolutely no way their administration would elect to play up. They don't have enough sustained tournament success to warrant doing that. If they were in 5A, they would reach semi-state at least 50% of the time and possibly state 25% of the time. Not only will they add to their trophy case, but more importantly, more revenue for their athletic department. But like DT said, it's not happening with the states 25th largest enrollment.
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24 minutes ago, gonzoron said:
Everybody wants a trophy! Let's just do away with Championships and Classes and go to a 10 game schedule like the old days.
What's wrong with wanting a trophy as long as there is competitive balance? The 275lb kid shouldn't be able to thump his chest and proclaim greatness after pinning the 140lb kid.
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1 hour ago, Purdue Pete said:
Concordia losses a ton of seniors
Tim Mannigel returns. The road to Indy got much easier with Chatard bumping up to 4A. Not saying another team won't stand in the way, just better chances of getting there.
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2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:
Dwenger was 5A the last cycle and got the 2 points necessary to stay up. They will be 5A for this cycle. I saw in the enrollment thread that Valpo is projected to be in 5A for the next cycle, but that could be wrong.
I think you are right about Dwenger. I forgot about the "stay up" rule.
The enrollment figures I'm looking at has Valpo at 31.
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Just now, scarab527 said:
I believe both Dwenger and Valpo will still be in 5A next year.
Dwenger's enrollment ranks 105. That puts them in 4a.
Valpo ranks 31. That should put them in 6a.
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Over/Under 2.5. Number of SAC teams playing in Indy next year on Thanksgiving weekend. I'll take the over. Luers in 2a (no one will stop them). Concordia in 3a (Chatard bumps up paving the way for the Cadets). Dwenger in 4a. Snider in 5a.
5A North:
In: Snider
Out: Zionsville, Dwenger, Valpo
Really? Snider vs Cathedral for the state championship. Mark it down.
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59 minutes ago, Lysander said:
First thought that occurred to me.
True, Westfield did somehow figure out a way to squeeze by the likes of Penn, Lake Central, HSE, and Fishers.
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2 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:
Let's just split 6A into 32 different tournaments and give each school a state championship trophy.
I like the idea of splitting it into two. Doesn't make much sense for a school of 1800 (Snider) to have to go through schools of 3200 (Ben Davis) and 5000 (Carmel). It's fun trying, don't get me wrong. But at the end of the day, it's the high enrollment schools that get to thump their chest and proclaim "were the best."
Fort Wayne North Side Coach Mike Brevard headed to St. Francis
in The Indiana High School Football Forum
Posted
Because there is a heck of a lot of talent roaming the halls of Ben Davis and Warren Central..............both pretty big schools themselves.