BTF

12 hours ago, Temptation said:

Maybe two northern 6A powers agree to skip the semi state and join forces to take on the southern winner?

Snider (1860) + Valpo (2054) = 3904. Now we have competitive balance. That would be one hell of a football team. 

9 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

You talk about Carmel, BD and WC dominance...but there are a number of high schools about 3000 that haven't had that type of success.  Not even close.  Not even in the same stratosphere.  

Four of the largest five absolutely own the 6a division. You think those 32 state championships were won by accident? No, they were won by a combination of good coaching and enrollment. Would those same coaches have 32 state titles at smaller schools like Zionsville, Valparaiso, Chesterton, Warsaw, & Merrillville? Nope................case closed. 

5 hours ago, US31 said:

I always thought the best fix would have been to put bottom 16 in 1A, top 16 in 6A, divide the rest by 4.  

For those who don't like the idea of a 7th champion, this sounds like a great idea. I think more and more of us can conclude the the largest 16 need to be separated from the rest. 

8 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

I think this has been covered, but splitting 6A into 2 groups based on today's IHSAA enrollment is a 561 population difference.  (16 vs 32)  What does that really solve?

What does it solve. It solves the problem of Zionsville having to play a school with a 3231 population difference. If I'm a smaller 6a football program, I'd rather go through Center Grove for the state championship than I would Carmel, Ben Davis, or Warren Central. At the end of the day, Center Grove still only has 2 championships compared to the 27 of the Big 3. 

2 minutes ago, Temptation said:

We are agreeing WAY too much lately.  😉

Passion for high school football is our common ground. Even the two of us will agree sometimes, lol. 

6 hours ago, Lysander said:

Sad to say, but most years those teams listed aren’t even competitive enough to contend for a  3A title.   

You honestly believe that? You don't think that Homestead would "contend" for the 3a title most years? 

6 hours ago, Lysander said:

Dissecting and re-dissecting 6A until you give out 32 trophies isn’t the cure.

I think DT is suggesting that we give out 7, not 32. See my previous post regarding Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central's combined 27 state titles. Three schools who just happen to be 3 of the largest 4 in the state and double the size of most of their 6a counterparts. If Zionsville (2055) has to go through Carmel (5286) for a state title, then what is the point of having a class system at all? Has Chatard ever defeated a team twice their enrollment on their way to a state title? If not, then why are we asking Chesterton, Zionsville, and Jeffersonville to?

16 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

They already addressed the competitive balance by adding a 6th class you dolt. The next step is to play 180 bowl games at the conclusion of the regular season and give the winner a blue ring and the loser a red ring. Two classes of 16 teams is ABSURD.

You call me stupid, yet bring nothing of substance to the table to rebuttal my post. Go to bed, get some rest, and think of something intelligent to say in the morning. Goodnight. 

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Lol. So now I’m mentally challenged for not pandering to the lunacy of the thread title?

We don’t need 7 state champions between 300 some schools. That’s idiocy. We already let every team in the tournament to begin with, the idea of crowning 2 separate champions in a class of 32 teams is nonsense. It waters down the entire thing.

If a team like Center Grove can punch above their weight for nearly 2 decades, there surely is a blue print to follow. 

Dating back to 1978.

Carmel.....9 state titles. Ben Davis.....9 state titles. Warren Central.....9 state titles. Penn.....5 state titles. Those are 4 of the top 5 largest enrollment schools (mega-schools). 

Bloomington South, Castle,Center Grove,  Columbus East, & Snider (non mega-schools).....8 combined. 

And you think the topic of the thread is lunacy? You can seriously maintain that 6a doesn't need to be fixed?  Center Grove..........bla, bla, bla. Snider has an impressive track record too (although, according to you, have no chance against the New Pal, Cathedral, and Center Grove's of the world). By and large (taking Center Grove and Snider out of the equation), there is a problem. Not sure how one can be so blind not to see this. 

7 hours ago, DT said:

If the MIC sweeps then so be it.

Small 6A is the last group of schools who are basically without representation in the state finals.  The two division format addresses that inequity and is another step towards the achievement of competitive balance.

There are many schools that are doing what it tales to be a champion but are left behind due to the current structure.  They deserve a chance to make it to the big stage just as much as the mega schools do.  

Playing in the shadow of The MIC is the best thing to ever happen to The HCC.  It has pushed the programs to get better.  Most have improved

 

No point in trying to explain this to the mentally challenged. 

18 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I’m so happy for the Greyhounds and glad to see my son win a state championship.  

Congratulations. Memory of a lifetime!

9 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

3 point difference tonight

No one will remember the three point difference. Congrats to the Greyhounds on their 9th state championship. 

21 hours ago, Gipper said:

About 3 million students go to Carmel, yet they can only field 11 at a time.

 

Half as many attend Center Grove, but yet only 11 are permitted on the field at a time.

 

The same does for Adams Central, Batesville, Delta, Elwood, Floyd Central, Gary West, Homestead, Indianapolis (too many too mention😉), Jasper, Kokomo, Lawrence Central, Monroe Central, North Knox, Oregon-Davis (if they had a football team) Penn, Reitz, Southport, Terre Haute North (and South), Union County, Valparaiso, Warren Central, and Zionsville.

Due to economic depression, high school sports has been shut down for the last ten years. They are about to start up again. You are offered one million dollars if you can win the state championship in a one class system. You have a choice of three teams...............Carmel, Center Grove, or Adams Central. Who do you  choose and why?

52 minutes ago, Coach Hanson said:

I also think Cathedral also could have won 6A this year. I think them, Carmel, and Center Grove are all pretty even.

Just to clarify. You believe that Cathedral, Carmel, and Center Grove are slightly below or even with New Pal and Valpo?

On 11/27/2019 at 5:57 PM, cg_holmeaid said:

Don’t you worry, the north schools will finally be able to have a chance at a state title starting next year. But a MIC, HCC team will still take home the blue rings 😂😂

More than likely a team from the MIC. The stronghold on 6a belongs to Carmel, Warren Central, and Ben Davis. The HCC had a great year this year, no doubt. But let's not put them on the same pedestal as the MIC just yet. Besides, historically, the north has 10 titles compared to the HCC's 3. 

Just now, gonzoron said:

Not against Carmel they didn't.

Overall body of work.

4 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

Give us a week.  We'll play them again.  And win again.

The way Carmel and CG are playing right now? If I was a bookie, I'd have NP as a 1-3 point favorite. They certainly aren't the best team "by far" like someone else suggested. 

But giving credit where credit is due...............they did whip CG (early in the season). They did whip Cathedral. And they did beat a very good Valpo team. New Pal has earned the right to claim "best team in the state." We can sit here and say that CG and Carmel would give NP a game and even possibly beat them. But at the end of the day, not only does NP pass the eye test, they proved it on the filed. So congrats to them. Best team in Indiana 2019. 

40 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

 New Pal is by far the best team in the state.

Seriously?

11 hours ago, BendNotBreak said:

... fo shore.....

Say what?

1 minute ago, FWfootball10 said:

You were right earlier. This game did prove Dwenger definitely has one of the best D’s in the state along with Valpo New Pal Carmel and some others.

Kolkman and Garrett are doing something right at Dwenger. Their defense sold me last year at state when the held Evansville Central to 0 pts through 4 quarters. That teams was averaging over 40 a game. It carried over into this season. Great coaching, plain and simple. 

12 minutes ago, OldschoolFB said:

Yes it was.  New Pal is fun to watch.  So was Valpo.  Valpo actually wore New Pal down as opposed to what was supposed to happen.   What a great game with 2 great teams.  I think Valpo proved the North was much better than everyone down south thought.   

Difference in the game was New Pal coming at you on every play, very smart team, experienced team and made two huge plays on D causing TO’s that led to scores. Plus Spegal making 1 big play.   

They are a Championship caliber team for sure.  Congrats to New Pal. 

Outside of the Indy mega schools at the 6a level, there's not much separation in the quality of football between Central Indiana and the North. 

Congrats to New Pal. Those kids fight hard and make plays.

I didn't like the personal foul facemask call. It looked incidental to me. Other than that, I think the officiating has done a fantastic job. 

Two great teams. One just making more plays. Congrats to New Pal. 

9 minutes ago, Grover said:

So if it is split in half (again) you are left with 2600-5400.  Other than taking the biggest schools out of your team's division does that fix anything?

It makes it better. A school that ranks 17-32 winning the state championship is a once in a decade occurrence. And we all know that enrollment is, by far, the main reason. 

10 minutes ago, Grover said:

So if it is split in half (again) you are left with 2600-5400.  Other than taking the biggest schools out of your team's division does that fix anything?

Are you generalizing? Or are you referring to my team being Snider? I've always been an advocate of Snider staying up in the biggest class. Bumping them down just weakens the north overall. I've spent years watching Snider rumble with Penn, Carmel, and a few others in the MIC. The win in 1992 was special. Now, some might contend that Snider's not the same as it was in the 80's and 90's with many white collar families moving to Carroll and Homestead districts. And the fact they've lost about 400 in enrollment over the last couple of decades. I get that and those claims are valid. I still prefer for them to play up.  Overall, leaving the team that I follow out of it, I think a 16/16 split is the right thing to do. 

Agree or disagree, we all have a passion for high school football. Happy Thanksgiving!

2 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Better yet, move to Oklahoma

To an actual football state with an intelligent format? Bliss.

1 minute ago, DT said:

CG is right on the edge of 16-17.  They could go either way.  

But currently they are 6A Division 1 enrollment. If they did bump down, maybe they do dominate for 2 years. Then they bump back up. Class 6a is a joke in it's current state. An enrollment range of 1900-5000! How can anyone not see the problem here? I know it's fun to thump your chest and claim "were the best." But do it in your own weight class. 

10 hours ago, Grover said:

Center Grove would dominate the second division.

How would they dominate Division 2 with the 16th largest enrollment in the state?