BTF

9 hours ago, DT said:

Duneland also had a pretty good year.  Merrillville and Valpo can play with anyone in The SAC.  

I'm surprised you didn't mention the DAC in the first place. They would be my pick to challenge the SAC. And yes, Merrillville and Valpo would fit in nicely at the top of the SAC. I think what separates the SAC and DAC is depth. South Side is really the only bottom dweller. Wayne was near the top just a couple of years ago, as was Luers. They will both have a run on talent and climb back up again. 

9 hours ago, DT said:

I see Homestead as the future kingpin in this conference.  

Homestead would be my 3rd pick to challenge. If Garrett and Kolkman stay together, Dwenger may be the kingpin of the SAC. Homestead is the same community it was 16 years ago with the same coaching staff it has today. They've always trailed Snider and will more than like will continue to do so. If they haven't done it by now, they probably wont outside of an occasional win here and there. I think Carroll has more potential than Homestead. Outside of some of the Indy burbs, their community is growing faster than any other in the state. And like I said in an earlier post, they have the coaching to get it done. 

19 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Slow news day?

It's a good topic. I just think there is a gap between the SAC and the next best.

DT brought up some interesting points though. One being Snider's reign as the SAC's premier team. The main contender has actually been a contender for decades..............Dwenger. Jason Garrett is a great coach and has been stellar in his first two seasons. Of course having a guy like Casey Kolkman on his staff helps.  We will know over the next few years whether or not this conference belongs to the Panthers or Saints. Snider will always be near the top with Russ Bush (48 years with the program), Russ Isaacs (43), and Kurt Tippmann (28) leading the charge. 

There will be a lot of talk in 2020 about Carroll and Homestead. Carroll looks to have enough pieces of the puzzle coming back to dethrone Homestead and take the bell (victory bell that goes so conference champ). The Chargers also have a pretty good coach. Doug Dinan was an assistant under Russ Isaacs for 17 years at Snider. He knows what he's doing. Homestead returns QB Luke Goode. That in itself makes the Spartans a contender. 

Four great teams at the top. Then you have Concordia, Luers, and maybe Northrop (still waiting for them to breakout) on the outside looking in. Should be a fun 2020. 

I really didn't think there was a comparison between the two conferences. So I went to Sagarin to see if I was wrong. I have much respect for Evansville area football, but I don't think they challenge for the SAC for third. 

Homestead over Memorial by 11

Dwenger over Central by 18

Carroll over Mater Dei by 15

Snider over Castle by 16

Concordia over Jasper by 6

FW North over Evansville North by 2

Northrop over Reitz by 5

Luers over Vincennes by 4

Wayne over Bosse by 12

FW South over Harrison by 21

Top three are cut and dry. MIC, HCC, SAC.............in that order. 

1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

many programs have "leadership counsels"  that work with the coaches of the program to discuss these type of issues if they arise.  

I am with @Irishman  1st step, TALK TO HC

 

sidenote:  

Facebook is truly the cesspool of the internet   

And many coaches have leadership classes for their upperclassmen. It's the difference between a good program and a "play pretend" program (not really a program at all). Kids who lock a teammate out of a locker room and physically assault him are being taught nothing about leadership.  Starts at the top. 

Sounds to me that this goes deeper than just missing workouts. If one of the better players was missing workouts, would he be left out of the locker room? This is a bullying issue and has less to do with not showing up for lifts. I would go straight to the head coach and make sure the issue is addressed. Sounds to me like there is an overall culture issue on that team. Ninety percent of the time, it starts with the top. Be nice, but firm at the same time. 

8 minutes ago, roscoeguy said:

BTF review Penns record the past two years and get back to us on the math 

Lol, 14-8. But I don't think they should lose their king of the north designation just yet. They had 5 straight semi-state appearances leading up to 2018. Snider has always been a close second. Merrillville and Valpo were good this year, but neither of them are certainly worthy of the designation. Who would be your "king of the north?"

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Wright is a little too polished and buttoned down for Elkhart

Russ Isaacs - Bart Curtis type is better fit

 

Isaacs bleeds black and gold. He's perfectly happy as Tippmann's "assistant". Personally? I'd love to see him take over another program.................. even if that would mean a big hit to the Snider program. Won't ever happen though. 

I'm showing Penn is 5-2 against Snider since 2000. An upset by Carroll in the first round of 2012 prevented a what would have been loss number three. But your point is valid. Penn won 4 of the last 5 against Snider. 

9 minutes ago, Temptation said:

He didn’t anoint anyone.  It’s simple math.

Penn has been the consistent barometer of northern Indiana big school football.  Anyone with a pulse can see that.  They’ve made consistent trips to LOS (5 times since 2000) and when they haven’t, have been knocked out by central Indiana juggernaut Carmel in the semi state FOUR times.

The only other programs with any substance of an argument would be Valpo and Snider.  The Kingsmen are 17-7 vs Valpo and 5-1 against Snider in that same time frame.

Some of you just search for bulletin board material to fire at DT...

Hmmmm. Heading over to JH's..............be right back.

1 minute ago, Temptation said:

Solid choice of words, very subtle:

“APPEARANCE”...singular.

“APPEARANCE”...not “victory.”

Agree on both accounts.  It CAN be done...just not sure year in and year out.

 

I think there are enough good programs up north to prevent a year in and year out situation. Penn, Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville. I'm just saying a good coach could make Elkhart dangerous with those kinds of numbers to work with. 

Elkhart could be king of the north if the right coach comes along. Kevin Wright + Elkhart = appearance at state. 

1 minute ago, psaboy said:

Got ya 

In a nutshell, a kid on f/r/l typically has less access to resources than a kid from a wealthier family has.........training, camps, nutrition, etc. 

7 hours ago, psaboy said:

I think Homestead and Carroll should also be considered. I would add Snider, but they are likely dropping to 5A next year. 

No faith that the panthers can win Sectional 3 next year? I understand that Homestead and Carroll will have good football teams next year. But Snider is still the benchmark of Northeast Indiana. A sectional championship will keep them in 6a. 

On 12/13/2019 at 4:14 PM, superjay said:

That only goes back to 1994 when John Harrell site started.  

Also, any all time list without Sheridan in the top 5 is way off.

Way off? That's debatable. There is at least 10-15 programs that could make that same case for their school. 

Giving up a full scholarship and choosing to walk on shows enormous confidence. I have a ton of respect for a kid who says, "I'm putting on that Indiana football uniform no matter what the naysayers say." 

His agility scores scream Indiana State. But there is something special about this kid. I've seen the highlights. 

I remember thinking Drue Trainquill was crazy for accepting a last minute offer from ND after being committed to Purdue for a long time. He would never see the field competing against ND's abundance of 4-star recruits. We all know how that story ended up. Then the naysayers questioned whether he could compete at the next level. And we all know how THAT story ended up. 

Stay tuned. 

6 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Not when compared to Center Grove and New Palestine.

I only weigh public vs public and private vs private. I am of the belief that privates have an advantage, so no sense in comparing them against public schools. If I remember right, most of LLC, Center Grove, and New Pal's success came in the last couple of decades. I believe all three had SOME success before that.

16 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I think Reuben Holcomb (Snider) had a brief appearance in Tampa??

Possibly. There are several others who made appearances in the NFL, but the only ones I mentioned actually played in a game. 

9 hours ago, Staxawax said:

No LCC?

I don't think so if we are talking best programs of ALL time. LCC's dominance has come more recently by comparison.

2 hours ago, Staxawax said:

But Chatard is THE pound-for-pound team!

I think the private schools need a Mount Rushmore of their own. Chatard, Cathedral, Luers................Dwenger or Roncalli?

45 minutes ago, DT said:

Different culture.  Different kids.  Much more competition.  Ralph would not have nearly the same success in HCC he is having in HHC.  

I thought of that. You see it at all levels. When a coach goes from the MAC to the Big Ten. When a coach goes from high school to college. College to pro. Pro to college. In many cases it's a challenge far different from what the coach had faced before. I get it. But going from one high school to another isn't quite the same thing. I understand the "different culture, kids, and competition," and I do think it provides another challenge. But seeing what he's done with a small school of 1200, I have no reason to believe that he wouldn't prosper at a school with 3500. 

It's probably a moot point, I'm sure he's happy at New Pal. 

3 hours ago, saintsguyseh said:

Woodson went to Snider, but they might have been combined at the time? not exactly sure on the history of northrop/snider and why they share a field and everything.

Also i don’t know if it’s been said already but Rod Smith, Jaylon’s brother went to Harding and played for the Cowboys but now is East Coast, maybe with the Giants?

Snider and Northrop were never combined. Snider was built in 1964, Northrop in 1971. Rod Woodson went to Snider and attended from 1979-1982 (I may be off a year). Snider doesn't have their own field because.............well, I've heard many things. Campus not big enough, not enough parking, drainage issues. I never knew what the real issue was. I know several years ago they had the plans and financing to build their own stadium off campus, but nearby neighbors fought and took it to court. That property now is home to government subsidized housing and IU Health. 

I mentioned Rod Smith in my earlier post...........he went to Harding and was a top 5 RB coming out of highs school. Drafted by Jim Tressel, misutilized by Urban Meyer. 

On 12/4/2019 at 1:30 PM, crimsonace1 said:

Any job is a possibility and I'm sure their AD will call, but he's got a pretty good situation where he is right now. At Fishers, you're likely dealing with some combo of Carmel, HSE, Westfield or any of the northside MIC schools every year in the sectional. 

Look what Ralph did at a school of 1175. Imagine what he would do with 3509. He would be Carmel's worst nightmare. 

On 12/5/2019 at 11:52 PM, DT said:

Maybe Huntington North will take this as a clear signal that its time they get their program up to par.  They compete at a level well below their pay grade.

Agree. They have a program that can succeed given the right coach comes along. 

Pound for pound Mount Rushmore................ Snider, New Pal, Center Grove, and Columbus East.