Footballking16

I don’t know a thing about either team. And I never once digressed that Sagarin was 100% accurate or the end be all. But it’s a lot more accurate (and non-bias) than the human eye. I respectfully decline.

Center Grove not show up? Looking ahead? LN that good?

Might be eating my words... LN up 13-0 2nd Quarter

Cathedral should never be playing a 2-5 TH South team in any level of the playoffs. And I’m talking in general speak. Playing the defending big class state champion is the most extreme example in this scenario. A more plausible scenario is two 3-3 teams playing in week 7. Winner of this game more than likely controls its own playoff destiny while the loser is on the outside looking in with work to do. It’s a playoff level type game in of itself. In our current format, both teams already know their first round sectional opponent. That’s what I’m talking about.

I don’t get it either Bob.

Again you're missing the point. In a qualification based system, the level of play rises naturally. Would you disagree with me that a sectional game and a week 2 game are on the same level of intensity? That's semi-rhetorical but you get my point.

Trust me I get it. You will never convince me that a game that has implications doesn't mean more than a game that doesn't have any implications. Could just be me and if I'm in the minority so be it. Of course any game is going to be competitive. When one team wins and one team loses there is always going to be a level of competition. That's natural and isn't subjected to high school football. But this isn't or has never been my argument.

That isn't the argument. The argument is that under the current system regular season games (in regards to the postseason) are effectively meaningless and you can't argue otherwise. Regardless if you're 9-0, 0-9, 0-0 your regular season performance isn't indicative of your postseason. Every team is admitted to the postseason and your draw is determined by a ping pong ball. Not your W-L record, not your SOS, not a conference title, etc....but a ping pong ball.

It's a ton more accurate than you think. I wish the archives were still around but there was a 3-4 year period where I seeded each sectional based on Sagarin rating and you didn't need a full set of fingers on either hand to count how many bottom half Sagarin rated teams beat top half Sagarin rated teams. Fool-proof no, is anything? But it's a lot more reliable than people give it credit for.

How can you argue against that though, regardless of where you live? Any system that doesn't acknowledge regular season performance is in fact "meaningless". I'm not sure how you can factually argue otherwise. You could be #1 in the state, go undefeated during the regular season, win your conference title, and be "rewarded" with an away playoff game in the first round. That actually happened last year. #1 Avon went undefeated last year, was the #1 rated Sagarin team in the state heading into the playoffs and drew #2 Sagarin Brownsburg (a team they beat earlier in the year) on the road no less, and subsequently loss. Tell me how any of the 9 previous games Avon played meant a damn thing in regards to the postseason. You can't.

You're confusing the two. I think most, if not everyone is in favor of some type of seeding. You're not really re-inventing the wheel here. But you also miss the unintended consequences of seeding. I see it, the IHSAA sees it, and that's why it hasn't or won't happen. Seeding will eventually lead to a qualification format whether you like it or not. My guess is we see neither (for the reasons I've stated above) and we're stuck with the blind draw.

Even if you preserve the top 2, you increase the chance of unnecessary games. I would guesstimate that in the average sectional (relative to the sectional) there's 1, maybe 2 dominant teams, 2-4 average teams, and then the rest who have no business being in a postseason to begin with. Under the current format, the only way unnecessary first round blowouts are avoided are when the best teams play each other and the worst teams play each other. Cut the sectionals in half, seed 1-4, and it's a much more (usually) exciting and meaningful format.

This season in general is an outlier...

Again, extreme outliers that are exactly that, outliers. Ohio also has 2x as many high schools playing football schools than the state of Indiana. I can hardly envision a scenario where a 9-0 team in Indiana isn't at least one of the 32 top rated schools in their respective class regardless of the schedule.

There's absolutely zero way that any playoff qualification method or rating system would be based solely on W-L record. It would be a combination of multiple factors including SoS, opponents W-L record, opponent SoS, etc. I'd have a hard time believing that even a winless Luers team that played a bunch of 4A and 5A schools competitive week in and week out wouldn't still be a top half rated 2A team.

How is letting a 9-0 team play a team that's 0-9 whom they already beat by 70 points earlier in the year exactly improving the tournament? You want to improve the tournament? Force teams to qualify and seed accordingly.

An 8-1 team should NEVER be playing a 9-0 team in the first round the same way an 0-9 team has no business being in a playoff to begin with. A playoff qualification format (with subsequent seeding) solves both those issues. I don't see what the problem is?

Because at what point does it become practical to let the IHSAA allow unnecessary 60-70 point blowouts in a "postseason" game? There's 48 sectionals in this state. If you pitted 1 vs 8 and 2 vs 7 in all sectionals in classes 1A-4A, you would be looking at colossal blowouts with running clocks at half time in just about every one of those games. What purpose does that serve anyone. Why not just cut the field in half at the end of the regular season and let 1 play 4 and 2 play 3 in more competitive sectional format. I mean yes, you are theoretically correct, you could do seeding and not go to a qualification format...but at the expense of what? This is the reason the IHSAA hasn't, and won't go to seeding, to try and avoid as many blowouts as possible with a "blind draw" as justification.

The unintended consequences of seeding would make the first round of the playoffs redundant to the point where the next logical step is a qualifier. The IHSAA doesn't want that. If the sectionals were seeded appropriately, 85-90% of the opening round games statewide would result in 50-60 point blowouts. That is the definition of redundant. It's unnecessary and doesn't do anybody any good. The only way the IHSAA today can justify why a team that has gone 0-9 in the regular season surrendering 500+ points is allowed to play again is because of the all-in, blind draw. There's an off-chance that an 0-9 team meets another 0-9 team and a blowout is avoided. If you seeded the sectionals, the next and only logical move would be to eliminate the field in half after the end of the regular season. The IHSAA isn't ready for that.

LN is going to have to hit a couple home runs early or else this will get ugly. CG will assert their will on the ground.

It's a good showcase no doubt, but Center Grove will score every time they have the ball until their starters come out. LN doesn't have the line depth on either side of the ball to contain, let alone stop Center Grove. This will be a 42/35-7 type game at half with a running clock that shortly follows.

Who cares? Cathedral is an exponentially better football team than Lawrence North this year. And you saw first hand last week that # of D1 athletes (Merrillville) doesn't mean much. Cathedral starts more juniors than seniors and by the time it's all said and done you'll see a Cathedral team next Friday that sends 5-6 kids D1 by the time they graduate.

You've already cemented this Center Grove team as the best team in the history of Indiana. With 6A being as down as it is, Center Grove should be able to walk to a 6A title, injuries or not. The only way this Center Grove team goes down as one of the best of all-time is to finish with a high national ranking, and the only way that happens is if they beat Cathedral, who is also nationally ranked. Center Grove will have a MIC title secured by the time the Cathedral game kicks off, so that point is irrelevant and Center Grove can still win a state title even if they lose to Cathedral. The only way this Center Grove team goes down as one of the best teams in the "History of Indiana" (as you have proclaimed) is by beating Cathedral. There isn't a chance in hell either coach steps off the accelerator in this game for that reason. Winner of this game goes down as the best team in the state of Indiana this year as both teams are winning their respective class titles this year.

Everyone is banged up in week 9, that's the nature of the sport. I will bet our posting privileges that there isn't a single starter on either team that sits this game (unless already previously injured) next week. This series has seen everything from shootouts to defensive slug fests to OT thrillers. Far from unmemorable.

You must have missed the last 6 Cathedral-Center Grove games. Nothing window dressing about any of the prior meetings.