Footballking16

20 minutes ago, HHF said:

There are 100 high schools in Indiana that have "chosen" not to play varsity football.  No school is obligated by any entity to offer football on its athletic menu.  Its 100% choice.

Right. So why would they need an opt out clause?

14 hours ago, BTF said:

4.  Ohio State lost to Oregon at home, lost to Michigan by two touchdowns, barely beat Penn State and Nebraska, but would blow out Notre Dame? Now I've heard it all. I'm not sure the Buckeyes could beat the Irish with Hamilton on the bench. 

Who exactly did Notre Dame beat this year? They play a limited ACC schedule yet somehow avoided the two best ACC teams and lost (at home) to their one worthy opponent. Is 8-4 Wisconsin their best win?

58 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Still curious as to how CG will be next year. But I am more curious on Westfield and the HCC. Any information on the HCC next year and how about Cathedral? Lots of ?'s this off season. I find it hard to believe CG will roll again and I think it can be anyone's this year for 6A.

Cathedral loses a ton. Believe lose 9 defensive starters and their entire OL. They do return most of their skill position players though. QB, WR, and TE I believe will all be P5 players when all said and done. DE has several P5 offers including Notre Dame. Should be ready to roll once playoffs start, in whatever class they may fall. 

10 hours ago, HHF said:

I would also add an Opt Out Clause, giving a school the option to opt out of football if it no longer fits the overall athletic profile for any specific school, regardless of class.

Does a school need permission to not field a football team?

19 minutes ago, US31 said:

Micah Hauser > Drayk Bowen

Played full time both ways (like Bowen).  Better stat lines against better teams (or in the case of Merrilville, the same team).

I'll duck and cover now 🤪

Drayk Bowen is a borderline 5* recruit ranked in the top 50 NATIONALLY in his high school class. 

Ever think Micah Hauser had a better supporting cast more suited to play against a 6A school than 2A Andrean? Anyone want to take a guess what Drayk Bowen's numbers might look like playing for a 6A school?

Micah Hauser is a very good player in his own right, that shouldn't be lost in all this. 

Not sure comparing stats of one common opponent (in which one school is much more suited to compete against) is a fair assessment. 

27 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I hate to break it to you, but you are not always the smartest guy in the room...and no level of snarkiness and insults will cover up that fact.

You make it too easy. In every thread in which you post, every last one of us is automatically elevated. 

32 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I think best player is too biased.

The best player in the state a few years ago by far and away was GK3…and I don’t even think he was a finalist….and he didn’t even get his 5 Star bump until January after he early enrolled.  I don’t care what anyone says…we all seen his Junior film shared on here and followed him for his senior year.  But everyone wants to talk about kiser vs bell as being the best. 

there is a definite divide between “Best for winning this award” and “best damn football player in Indiana period”…that’s not to say I think this year there is that though lol

 

I definitely think Brady is a top 25 prospect in the country and a 5 star prospect and if anyone wants to argue…

 

http://www.hudl.com/v/2GBzfm

 

40 seconds in.  State finals game. Takes snap, surveys, evades blitz, runs to his left….while running to his left he throws a ball from the 27 yard line to the opposing 26 yard line…that’s where the ball was caught (47/48ish air yards).  Absolute dime only where Rory could catch it… in stride too.  Made the throw while a LB was coming at him. That’s a 50 yard bomb, with precision made live in game in a clutch moment while running to his left throwing across his body. 5 star arm talent no doubt and then some imo  

Drayk Bowen, a Junior, just won Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year. Have no qualms with it either. He wasn’t eligible for Mr. Football. I think if you really want Mr. Football to be associated with any kind of best player award, it needs to be open to all classes.

8 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Mr football should probably be an award that’s more than just about football…or at least success on the field. 

and imo it should be a longer process.

maybe midseason have teams/coaches make their nominees…they know who the best players/leaders/humans are on their teams…which kids are also doing great academically while maintaining on field success….then by the end of the regular season maybe narrow that list down to 100 or so voted on by head coaches/coordinators (limit 3 to team for safe measures lol) 

then from there let it play out and maybe have a list of 25 semi finalists after sectional championships/before regionals.  

conduct interviews to those 25….get it down to say 10 finalists before the state finals.

get the names out there earlier…make it a process and make it mean something. 

I can argue until I’m blue in the face that Brady is the best player in the state…that’s my opinion…I can argue the stats too for it all day every day…the same can be done by CG fans with Curry or any of the other outstanding players on other teams too

….point is, this award means too much to have the finalists decided after all football is over…and it means too much to have it just voted on without consideration for who these players are off the field and apart from their amazing stats…or what very flawed recruiting system/ranking site says about them. 

Honestly if it’s going to be a true best player award, need to scratch the idea that the best player is automatically a senior. If Mr. Football is truly designed to crown the best football player, it needs to be an open award.

Honestly, I’m pretty anti-participation award but I wouldn’t necessarily mind them giving out a POY award to all classes. At the very worst a big class (4A-6A) and small class (1A-3A) award. 

3 minutes ago, Grover said:

Maybe.  I live in the Indy area and don't subscribe to the Star.  Why would a coach in another part of the state given how the Star obviously has it in for the rest of the state?

I live in Indy and don’t subscribe to the Star either and every 15th tweet on my Twitter feed is some kind of repost or Star related article. Perks of being the states largest publication I guess 🤷‍♂️

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

am going to ask you again, although its wasted breath.  Can you name any Mr. Footballs from central Indiana (metro Indpls) that should not have received the award and should have gone to someone outside the Indy metro area??  Just one.

What does it matter what I think? I’m not a voter therefore my opinion is irrelevant. Pick any year between now and 1992 and I’m sure you can make a legitimate case for more than just the actual winner for different players all over the state in that given year.

But that’s my point. When in doubt the award typically goes to large class player that hails from Central Indiana. The data openly suggests and confirms that. 

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Your talking about exposure from the state's largest publication.  So you don't think those same coaches read what sportswriters have to say in more regional newspapers in Bloomington, Evansville, Fort Wayne, the region, South Bend, Louisville metro, etc.?  I lived in southern Indiana...if there is bias, it can actually work the other way.  People may not care as much about Indy as you think and in some cases, it may even lead to disdain for the area.  Varsity coaches think for themselves way more than you are giving them credit.  You are merely speculating bias, with zero evidence.  I don't believe coaches that are voting are lazy.  Coaches in all classes voted for Kiser....and I am willing to bet he earned a vote or two across the state, including central Indiana.

I am going to ask you again, although its wasted breath.  Can you name any Mr. Footballs from central Indiana (metro Indpls) that should not have received the award and should have gone to someone outside the Indy metro area??  Just one.  

Its probably easier to rant on and insult...But understand, others see that as intellectually lazy.  Pedantic...nice word...

 

thank you for correcting

 

No I don’t think a coach from Columbus IN is going to have the same access to high school football coverage through the NW Times as he would the Indy Star. Silly analogy.

Again you’re still caught up over one year: 2018. Why? 2018 doesn’t negate the other 30 years worth of winners that show the award has been given to a large class player from Central Indiana more times than not. 2 hours ago you acknowledged that you understood what an outlier meant? Were you lying?

1 hour ago, Grover said:

I greatly doubt that varsity head coaches are being influenced by sports writers at the star.

But they’re more likely to be exposed to players from Central Indiana due to the Star’s coverage as the largest publication in the state. 
 

Someone in Vincennes is going to be exposed to a player out of Indy before they’re exposed to a player of of the NE part of the state. 

19 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Also don't discount the power in numbers small school (3A and below) coaches will have.  They could very well band together out of some sort of general disdain for the audacity of INDY Metro footballs belief that the sun rises and sets in their proverbial sphincters. 

It may be headed that way now that everyone has a voice, but to deny that over time the award hasn't been favored towards large class players from Central Indiana is being disingenuous at best. You know that, I know that, everyone knows that. Well except the one elephant in the room who once again is acting pedantic.  

18 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Ball in your court....your bias theory has been challenged.  Take a breath, try not to get triggered, fight off the urge to insult, and provide proof.  My challenge is that the coaches across this state are not biased to select winners from the Indy metro area.

Read my most recent post. Coaches outside of Central Indiana aren't going to get to witness players live in Central Indiana, but they're going to get exposure to the best player on the best team in the state due to the IndyStar being the state's largest publication. A coach from Evansville is going to hear much more about a player from Central Indiana due to the Star's coverage than a player who resides up in South Bend or Fort Wayne as the IndyStar is much more polarizing than either of those regional publications. It's very rare for the IndyStar to denote coverage to a player outside Central Indiana.

That's called a bias my friend. 

27 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Not many of us had seen him. I've often wondered why Gibson Southern doesn't stream at least their home games. There is a huge audience out there willing to watch.

And it just furthers my previous insinuation as to why so many guys from Central Indiana playing in the larger classes have won the award so many times. Best offensive player on best Central Indiana team is likely to be the most publicized player in the state.

Anyone want to take a guess as to what the largest publication in Indiana is.....that may or may not present the award?

I won't name names but some people (because I apparently already rail on him to hard) are too dumb for their own good. 

25 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I think the recent change that allowed all coaches to vote .vs when there were only 10 per class has removed the bias that (may or may not) have existed before.

And honestly, I think extending votes to every coach in the state is only going to further muddy the award. There's 300+ coaches in the state of Indiana. How many of these coaches have actually seen the person they are voting for play live? Do you think the coach of Angola had ever seen Brady Allen up until the state title game Thanksgiving weekend? Assuming he even watched the broadcast? 

19 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

You absolutely have proved nothing...other than getting triggered as usual when you run into someone that doesn't buy what you are trying to sell.  First you blame the IndyStar...and then when called out by me and others for that being false, you evidently believe now the coaches are biased for the Indy area.  As if coaches across the state can't think for themselves.  Your application of statistics is beyond laughable....you are no expert in that arena.

Another approach would be offering up players from outside the Indy region that were worthy of the award and lost out to Indy area players....that would have been a strong start in lieu of making unfounded accusations.

You must give a sh*t as to what I think...because you stop yourself from the childish responses.

Lol.

You're right I don't need to prove anything, the prior award winners speak for themselves (and parallels everything I've stated). I said the Mr. Football award is usually biased towards players from Central IN and the largest class in my initial post and you have done absolutely nothing to contradict that statement. Knock yourself out though trying to show evidence otherwise.

19 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I think the recent change that allowed all coaches to vote .vs when there were only 10 per class has removed the bias that (may or may not) have existed before.

I started taking the award with a grain of salt when Morgan Newton won the award over Nick Zachery in 2008. 

19 minutes ago, Grover said:

McCullough is a linebacker who got beat by a 2A player from Andrean. 
Goodwin lost to a 3A player from Lawrenceburg. 

The 2A line backer is a junior thus ineligible for the position award and Goodwin has over 50 committable FBS offers and may shun Kentucky for Alabama on signing day. 

21 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

So you understand the concept of populations to include the locations of the best overall football programs in the state churning out not only the largest volume of players but the largest % of the best overall all around players and programs, right?

Define best? Mr. Football isn't a program award by any means and rarely does the "best football player" win the award. The two highest rated recruits in the state with the best offer sheets (McCullough and Goodwin) didn't even win their position awards this year. And neither reside in Central Indiana, go figure.

The award in most years (not every year...hence outliers) typically goes to the best offensive skill position player on the best larger class team. The best large class programs are located in Central Indiana. The award has bias towards it and has for years and frankly don't give a Sh*t if you agree with me or not. That isn't my problem. 

26 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

How does that support your argument that the Indy metro area is favored by the IndyStar (which according to you influences the vote of the coaches across the state) when not only is David Bell not selected, but his teammate Romeir Elliott didn't even make the list?  You further make a true statement about Shakir Bell being snubbed in 2009/10.  These  examples you provided don't support your claim of the Indy metro bias by the IndyStar......

Romeir Elliott DID make the list. He was Mr. Football for the Running Back position that year and was one of the finalists. We are talking about one year in the nearly 30 years the award has been given. Perhaps we call 2018 an outlier? Do you know what an outlier is?

Bottom line, more than half the award winners have come from central Indiana and 14 of the 29 winners have all come from the largest class. When there are 5 (now 6 classes) and one class has nearly 50% of the winners it's hard not to conclude there is some kind of bias. Just stating facts, don't shoot the messenger. 

1 hour ago, Screagle said:

That year finished 

kizer 

Bell

Lindauer 

Elliot 

I think George QB from WC was just outside top 4.  3 players from one team.  Wow. 
Bell wound have been my pick. 

Definitely make a case for Bell. Think you could have made a reasonable case for Elliott as well. We saw a 6A back win it last year with far lesser numbers. 

19 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Bell was the best player.

I didn't say best player, I said most deserving. As we've seen with this award, it's usually a best player award on best team. Hard to argue Jack Kiser's worth to Pioneer and what he did on both sides of the ball. That being said, there's only two players in then 5A/now 6A to rush for over 3,000 yards in a single season and Romeir Elliott is one of those players. 

26 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

David Bell would like a word.

You could make an argument that David Bell wasn't even the most deserving player on his own TEAM that year. Romeir Elliott rushed for 3100 yards and scored 41 TD's that year. Only one other largest class player has ever rushed for 3,000+ yards in a single season, Shakir Bell who was also snubbed of the award. 

29 minutes ago, southend said:

Me and everybody else knows Allen had this guy,Bell, hired after th 4th game of the season this year. Quick decision  but not a hurry up hire. I think he was very well (vetted). While Bells delve into head coaching didn’t go very good, seems like he was on some pretty good staffs at some high profile programs. Maybe a sleeper for Allen to land. Hope so.  

Paper resume was nice but success not so much. Was apart of some very good offenses at Arkansas State but was ok at Maryland and FSU. Maryland averaged in the 20's in ppg and FSU averaged 19 ppg against P5 opponents in 2018 and rushing attack netted barely over 3 yards/carry.

Like most Allen hires, this a guy that was likely recommended, assuming by Willie Taggart whom both have served under as coordinators. I hope Bell works out but obviously very hesitant given his past. For Allen's sake it better as this hire will likely determine his future. 

19 minutes ago, southend said:

I’m not sure Indiana can write off anybody right now. 
The  quick work by Allen, hiring an OC, means the coaches can huddle and get a game plan for the offense. Talent cures a lot of what’s wrong with IU.

The weak QB play  was compounded by the terrible offense line that they had to deal with this year. So first, linemen are priority, then set up an offense that fits who you have coming next year. 

Hope the new guy has some offense wrinkles to bring out whatever offensive talent Indiana has left. 

Have read up a little bit on new OC Bell. Decent resume with some pretty meh results but at least has some P5 play-calling experience. Runs a spread offense that's a little more run heavy. Sounds like he prefers to use the QB in the run game which suits McCulley as he can take some hits.