Footballking16

26 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Meh, this is weak.  Sheridan is in tony Hamilton county, part of the Indy metro area.  

Sheridan is also a 1A school and up until that time the state had never had a 1A winner. Again, there's more than enough data in the nearly 30 years the award has been given that shows the award goes to a 1) CENTRAL INDIANA PLAYER and 2) A LARGE CLASS PLAYER more times than it goes to anybody else. 

16/29 winners have come from Central Indiana

22/29 winners have come from the State's two largest classes a\with 14 of those from the largest class.

49 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Are you a career politician?  Smoke and mirrors.

AGAIN, I am going to ask you to provide one historical example since the Indiana Mr. Football award started in 1992, where one (JUST ONE) recepient from Indy metro was an undeserving award winner and the award should have went individual in a different area of the state.  I am giving you every opportunity to use an OUTLIER data point to make your case.  

I have ready Brady's passing stats and I know who has won the awards over time.  I'm done trying to get you to buy into largest populations, highest number of quality programs, largest population of high quality players, etc and the impact that has on the probability of success.  To you, its all about coaches that are biased and can't think for themselves because they read the IndyStar.  Pretty simple theory....just provide us an example where this has actually occurred.  A listing of award winners where a larger % of winners coming from central Indiana means nothing unless you can articulate with solid rationale WHY they weren't deserving and how selection bias led to their selection.  Without that, all you offer is OPINION and SPECULATION.  

The challenge remains in your court...give me ONE data point and make your case Mr. Stats....try not get frustrated, huff and puff and call others dumb because YOU can't make a case other then general speculation about selecting coach's behaviors.

This isn't hard to get. You can make a compelling case in every single year the award has been given that someone deserves the award over the winner. There's been one or two years where I thought there was an unanimous, no brainer winner. The fact that the award has gone to a large class, Indy area winner more than 60% of the time, reveals the bias in the award. 

I can make a case that in 2008 1A Nick Zachery from Sheridan deserved the award over 5A Morgan Newton from Carmel.

I can make a case that in 2005 4A Luke Schmidt from Jasper and 5A James Aldridge from Merrillville deserved the award over 5A Dexter Taylor from Warren Central who wasn't even the best back in his own backfield.

You could theoretically do this for every year if you truly wanted too. Point remains that when in doubt, the award more times than not goes to a player from Central Indiana who plays in one of the largest two classes. That's the bias in the award. 

9 minutes ago, HHF said:

My agenda is competitive balance.  Its a good topic.  A good agenda, as you call it.  Contraction is a small element of the larger issue of competitive balance.  Classifications, The Success Factor, The Mercy Rule, scheduling, conference alignment, these are all elements that make or break competitive balance.  Its not a perfect science, but something that should be continuously improved upon.  Surely you can understand that.  

How does contracting Benton Central or Bishop Noll make their respective classes more competitive?

8 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

If you had the first clue what an outlier truly was, you'd provide a single sample to back up your ignorant claim regarding coach's selection bias.

BTW. I'll buy circus tickets if you promise to leave and never come back

Said I wasn’t going to do it. Multiple pages worth detailing the large class, Indy bias to Mr. Football winners. Knock yourself out.

19 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Yeah...kind of like claiming coaches are biased in the selection of the state's Mr. Football award to the Indy metro area, yet failing to provide one example of a unfair selection of the award to a local Indy player over a non-local Indy player......

BTW, you did notice the selection of the Mr. Football Offensive Line was a selection from southern Indiana over an outstanding player from Zionsville correct?  Not sure how in the world the coaches were able pull their biased voting away from the metro area......🤪  #coachescan'tthinkforthemselves

Don't have the time nor energy to explain what an outlier is....again.

If I wanted to talk to a clown, I'd go to the circus.

21 minutes ago, temptation said:

If it doesn't happen or isn't seen at Cathedral its not reality.  Every player in the state of Indiana comes from a stable, two-parent household family earning six figures and if they lose to Cathedral, they just need to "get better."  

Also, Cathedral plays teams 2-3 times its size in enrollment and wins state championships, so everybody should be able to do it.

Any suggestion otherwise is a false narrative.

Also, what does the high school I attended over 15 years ago have anything to do with the topic at hand or DT's ability to spin and spew numbers and narratives out of his ass to further an agenda he's been on for over a decade? There's reason why he's quit, re-joined, quit, started his own site, rinse repeat for the last 15 years? He knows he's full of it as does everybody else and can't stand and has to take ball and run. 

It gets old. 

19 minutes ago, temptation said:

If it doesn't happen or isn't seen at Cathedral its not reality.  Every player in the state of Indiana comes from a stable, two-parent household family earning six figures and if they lose to Cathedral, they just need to "get better."  

Also, Cathedral plays teams 2-3 times its size in enrollment and wins state championships, so everybody should be able to do it.

Any suggestion otherwise is a false narrative.

Still trying to keep your head above water I see. 

Tread harder my friend. 

26 minutes ago, HHF said:

People such as yourself should really be banned from this type of forum.  You bring zero value to any conversation other than a "prove it" mentality that is toxic and negative and destructive.  If anyone was watching the gate here they would have shown you the door a long time ago.  Its too bad that you have become the prime representative of Indianapolis Cathedral High School on this forum.  If you are a good representation of the type of adult that place produces, Id advise anyone to steer clear of the joint.  

LAUGH OUT EFFING LOUD

Says the guy pushing for contraction based on unfounded and unsubstantiated claims on a high school message that's designed to grow and promote the game of football.

Take a lap, Walt. See ya with your next screen name. 

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

I thought its been a very substantial conversation.  Go ahead and chalk it up as another win.  You must be 75-0 by this time since we are keeping track.  Youre a legend.  

There's no winning and losing here, just exposing you for the fraud you are.

Anybody driving home a narrative that players on uncompetitive teams are being catastrophically injured in droves would have specific examples. "Go look it up yourself" isn't an example, let alone concrete.

Try harder.

19 minutes ago, HHF said:

Nope  Have nothing to prove to you.  Its all in the archives.  If you are that inquisitive go find it yourself.  

Figured as much.

Nothing substantial. Par for the course. 

21 minutes ago, BTF said:

Shoo shoo, run along now little fella. 

Good luck to the Irish!

23 minutes ago, HHF said:

I gave two examples.  There are likely hundreds that go unreported

"I've read on GID about injuries regarding Benton Central and Bishop Noll" aren't examples. That's anecdotal. 

What were the injuries? Who were they sustained against? Etc.

Do better. 

32 minutes ago, BTF said:

After Notre Dame beats Oklahoma State by 14 and Ohio State beats Utah by 14, you'll still come on here and say that the Buckeyes would beat Notre Dame convincingly. The Committee, the AP, and Sagarin all disagree with you. It's no secret that you don't like the Irish. 

I dislike Ohio State a lot more than I dislike the Irish. Don't kid yourself here. There's no secret agenda to push here. 

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

foxbat doesnt need a hack like you to fight his battles.  I understand where he is coming from.  If you dont think that huge roster imbalances occur in every class on every Friday night, then your just not operating in reality.  

You're the one insinuating that huge roster imbalances are leading to "catastrophic injuries". You've yet to provide one example of this actually happening. Asserting that declining numbers are impacting teams performances is one thing, doesn't take a genius to realize that, you figured it out so case in point, but offering nothing to support that roster imbalances are leading to catastrophic injuries to further your never-ending contraction agenda is complete bullshit.

23 minutes ago, HHF said:

This is not about winning or losing an argument, which is what you are all about on this forum.  Its about bringing attention to a serious issue which should be addressed by coaches, admins, ADs and The IHSAA  Ive shared my "opinions" on the topic and made my point.  Every schol has the free will to pick and choose which sports it wants to participate in.  Scottsburg is a 4A school that dropped football 8 years ago due to non competitive issues.  They are back playing again and rebuilding their program.  It was their choice, which is the way it should be.  My role here is to lobby for what I believe is in the best interests of the game, and as a strong proponent of competitive balance, to lobby for what I feel is in the best interests of the member schools themselves.  

 

If you're going to bring a "serious" issue to the table you're going to need a little bit more than anecdotal evidence and hyperbole. Foxbat debunked all of your talking points in a mere 20 minutes after you threw out the name of a team in which you clearly know nothing about.  

20 minutes ago, BTF said:

Let's talk about it after Notre Dame beats Oklahoma State. Wait, no one will want to talk about that. Just like a couple of years ago how everyone was talking about how good Iowa State was. Then Notre Dame beat them by a wider margin than anyone else on their schedule. All of a sudden, Iowa State wasn't that great of a team. 

This year it's all about Oklahoma State. How they were 6" away from making the playoffs..............well, not really. Just a couple of clowns on ESPN stating that they would have jumped Cincinnati. After Notre Dame takes care of business against them, and they will, all of a sudden the talk will be about how they really weren't that good after all and that the Big 12 was overrated. It won't have anything to do with Notre Dame being a pretty damn good football team. 

It's not like Notre Dame's schedule was weak or something. It was rated 41st by Sagarin. Speaking of Sagarin, he takes a lot of things into count when coming up with his ranking. All being said, he has Ohio State beating ND by 4pts............hardly a blowout. I think the committee looked at Notre Dame's consistency and how they took care of business all season long against teams they were suppose to beat. Purdue turned out to be a good win. Wisconsin was a good win. Their loss against the Bearcats came when they didn't even know who their QB was and the offensive line was still trying to figure things out. I think it really comes down to the eye test. Should beating Georgia Tech by a wider margin than Georgia did be considered? Maybe, maybe not. But there's a lot of folks out there that think the Irish are pretty darn good this year. 

What a rant lol.

I'm genuinely asking who Notre Dame beat this year? Not sure what that has to do with Oklahoma State or Iowa State three years ago or whoever else you decided to throw in there. Notre Dame beat probably the worst Wisconsin team the Badgers have put on the field in a decade and struggled to beat an ok Purdue team, a team Ohio State hung nearly half a hundred on.....in the first half. 

But to answer the linger question, yes I do think Ohio State would beat Notre Dame convincingly this year, with or without Kyle Hamilton. 

23 minutes ago, HHF said:

LOL

About the response I expected from somebody getting caught talking out of their ass. 

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

BC is 10-80 since 2013 under 5 different head coaches.  Perhaps they should consider contraction.  

Because they aren't good or because they keep getting seriously injured? Pick a narrative and stick with one. Please.

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

Dont have a clue.  One is too many in my view.  It should never happen if the sport is managed correctly.  It only takes one game for a 260lb kid like GK to run over a 130lb DB and its game over.  

GK hasn't played high school football in 4 years and is a generational type talent that you'll likely never see at West Lafayette or the 3A level again. GK would hurt a lot of 6A DB's in certain one on one situations. How many kids have been personally injured by GK type players to the extent they need to shut down their football program?

Of all the hills to die on this is your place? My god my expectations for you were low but this is incredibly low. 

20 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Showing 7.  Still made your number at 30.

Is this a new addition to your number cutoffs?  Now it has to been non-freshman?

Incidentally, WL only had 53 on the roster last season ... and 11 of those were listed as freshman.

Using your comparison issue, WL and Benton Central, which actually play each other every year, would have been 42 non-freshman vs. 30 non-freshman.  For 3A, seems close enough on straight numbers on paper.

He'll find one example from a game played sometime back in 2014 that fits his agenda.

Give him till the end of the day. 

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

If that football program is hyper uncompetitive over a period of time and causes other problems including game cancellations, contraction should definitely be on the table as an option.  

That didn't answer a single question I asked though?

How many times a year does a team with 70 varsity players with a few D1 athletes play a team full of 20 skinny kids and a 2 man coaching staff?

19 minutes ago, HHF said:

When two teams show up to play on a Friday night, one with 70 players dressed and a few D1 athletes, the other with 20 skinny kids and a 2 man coaching staff, something is clearly out of balance.

How many times a year does this occurrence happen? Often, seldom? Are you fudging numbers and using more hyperbolic nonsense? 

Sounds like a scheduling problem if anything to me. That can be solved without contracting a football program ya know?

24 minutes ago, HHF said:

I've read on The GID about serious injuries suffered by Benton Central and Bishop Noll players due primarily to the extreme physicality imbalance between themselves and their opponents.  Ive given my logic on the 22 starting point for class A.  The suggested MPS for the rest of the classes are assigned relative to the starting point and the percentage increase in enrollment bands.  Not a perfect science, but a start.  

What type of injuries? Like severe head trauma, paralysis, etc? Or we talking about unfortunate but normal football injuries such as torn ligaments, fractured bones, sprains, etc that occur at all levels of play regardless the size or strength of the athlete?

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Theres always a "Northwood" story to tell.  We/ve been fortunate to avoid catastrophic injury mainly thru the use of the running clock and mercy rule.  

So you have no examples of catastrophic injuries and your arbitrary number isn't founded or based upon anything? 

Noted.

Just now, HHF said:

How about a little common sense?

Does everything need to be proven by a set of scientific facts?  Are we not capable of seeing competitive imbalance using the eye test?

 

Common sense tells you that Foxbat just provided a real life example of a team fielding 19 players who more than held their own.

Feel free to share an example of a team fielding low numbers that has directly lead to a “catastrophic” injury.

Thanks