Footballking16

26 minutes ago, HHF said:

Why is this a good fit?  I dont get it.  

Because Harbaugh is better suited coaching in the NFL. He doesn’t have to worry about recruiting or developing kids and instead can focus solely on coaching X’s and O’s, which is by far his strongest suit.

With Rodgers likely moving on, Vikings become the team to beat in the NFC north. Harbaugh has two very skilled WR’s in Thielen and Jefferson + an all-pro RB in Dalvin Cook to work with and Harbaugh is known to get the best out of mediocre NFL QB’s.

Sounds like Harbaugh to the Vikings is all but a formality at this point. Makes perfect sense from all angles for all parties involved.

54 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Never understand why people always want to see these out of state games. Play teams affiliated with the IHSAA. I get that these games happen at times for various reasons, but I would much rather see Ben Davis play teams in Indiana rather than out of state. I do not care about how good teams from chicago or cincinnati are.

Meh.

Ben Davis/Louisville Trinity is a much more intriguing match up than Ben Davis/Perry Meridian. 

No one is forcing you to watch them either. 

No clue if this name is being considered or if he'd even want the job, but Adam Barth, defensive coordinator at Cathedral, has earned his shot. 

Saw Neddenriep's tweet that Rodenberg was stepping down to take a job back in Cincinnati. 

19 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Maybe. It's my understanding that they've attempted to join conferences a few times over the years. Other Cathedral folks might know better.

10-15 years ago it made sense as Cathedral still struggled filling a schedule and were forced to play IPS schools more times than not, but that has since changed. I do know that Cathedral has enjoyed the flexibility of being able to schedule whom they wish in that time frame. They've played as far east as Cleveland, as far south as Chattanooga, as well as Detroit, Chicago, Louisville, and all over Ohio. It's a unique situation for them and has really helped evolved their football program the last decade plus. 

Just now, temptation said:

Matt Campbell and Mark Stoops made me spit my drink out.  Harbaugh is a GREAT college coach and football coach in general, regardless of the level.

Matt Campbell has taken Iowa State to more bowl games in his short tenure at Iowa State than the previous 100+ years in their football existence. Mark Stoops has elevated Kentucky from SEC basement dweller to the second best program in the SEC East. Imagine either of those guys coaching at a blue blood like Michigan with those kind of resources?  In fact, in the event Harbaugh does bolt for the NFL, Stoops and Campbell are likely the two most likely candidates to take the Michigan job. 

26 minutes ago, temptation said:

LOL at your list after previously citing Dabo, Saban and Meyer playing on unlevel playing fields.  Put those guys in Ann Arbor or South Bend and lets see how they do.

Hell, Saban was slightly above average at MICHIGAN STATE!

Where did Jim Harbaugh do you wrong in life?  I am dying to know.  I am here to listen.

Meyer has won 10+ games at 4 different programs. Dabo has built Clemson into a top 5 football program in less than a decade at Clemson of all place. I shutter to think what he'd do at university that has the luxuries Michigan enjoys. Saban is the best college football coach of all time and it's not even close.

You're misinterpreting my opinion of Jim Harbaugh. He's a good college coach. He's a better fit in the NFL. Nothing more, nothing less. 

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

10 combined wins in the last three seasons.  The Harbaugh magic wore off after Shaw won initially with his players.  Shaw is the most overpaid coach in America.

Answer my last question.  If you were a collegiate AD, who are you interviewing before you give Jim Harbaugh a call?

He won 10, 9, 9 games from 16-18. Harbaugh last coached at Stanford in 2010 so don't give me any bull about Stanford being a one hit wonder under Harbaugh. Stanford had a string of some bad luck injuries and some recruiting classes that didn't pan out but have has put together 3 top 25 classes in the last 4 years. They will be fine. 

Jim Harbaugh isn't even in top 10 of coaches I'd interview if I had the pick of the litter. Outside the obvious of Saban, Dabo, Day, Smart, and Reilly I'd interview Brian Kelly, Kyle Whittingham. Pat Fitzgerald, Luke Fickell, Matt Campbell, and Mark Stoops well before I make the call to Jim Harbaugh. 

Now if I were an NFL GM, I'd cut my list to Brian Kelly and Jim Harbaugh. 

4 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Now that’s a truly bitter rivalry: smack talking in the off season.

FWIW, Roncalli’s schedule was ranked 19th most difficult in the state last year according to Sagarin. That was, by far, the toughest schedule in 4A, and tougher than all but 3 schedules in 5A, and it doesn’t even count their game against Cincinnati Elder, a playoff team in Ohio’s biggest class.

My comment is due to the fact that Roncalli will no longer schedule Cathedral and Center Grove who they used to play and beat regularly. Once they started losing they took their ball and went home. 

52 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Roncalli has turned down playing the Trojans in the past. And I have heard they do not plan to in the future. 

Well can't say I'm totally surprised. Roncalli and ducking competition have become synonymous with one another over the years. 

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

In the NFL, the playing field is about as close to even as you are going to see.  While I mentioned that Michigan is not Harvard, it is much closer to Harvard than it is Clemson, Alabama or Ohio State at least as far as the admissions department is concerned.  There are significant advantages to coaching at Michigan, no doubt but also some barriers...which also can be said about coaching at ND and is one of the reasons Kelly bolted to LSU.

Its not a coincidence that Harbaugh has now won at Michigan and STANFORD (by the way how has Stanford fared since his departure?).

If you were a collegiate AD and had a coaching opening, how many guys are you choosing to interview BEFORE Harbaugh?

How has Stanford fared since his departure? I don't know, won at least 9+ games in 7 out of the 11 seasons David Shaw has been there including 2 Rose Bowls. 

And you're making my point about Harbaugh and the NFL. Due to the fact that you don't have to recruit and place a huge emphasis on player development in the NFL like you do in the NFL (where Harbaugh struggles), ability to coach X's and O's is what makes and NFL head coach. It's why coaches like Meyer, Saban, and Chip Kelly have all been massive flops at that level, that out-recruit their weekly NFL opponents like they can in college ball. Harbaugh is one of the top X's and O's guys in the business. He beats Saban, Dabo, Meyer, etc on an even playing field which he'll never do at Michigan.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I guess I get that but this guy loves to argue and seems to have an axe to grind with Harbaugh.

He’s easily a top 10 coach in the country and I’ll even stick my neck out farther and call him top five based on the lack of a level playing field in the sport and some of the academic hurdles UM has to overcome in their admissions department.  Are they Harvard?  No.  Not even Notre Dame.  But the stories are out there a plenty.

There is no better suited human being to coach at the University of Michigan and as we mentioned above, the guy has won at all levels and is one of a few to do so.

He is polarizing and the talking heads love to give him hell.  Obviously he’s been a part of some tough losses and apparently @Footballking16 isn’t impressed and thinks 2021 was a one off.

How is 2021 not a one off throughout Harbaugh's tenure at UM? They're finally the 4th team to win the B10 East since hiring Harbaugh, congratulations. If suggesting Harbaugh is better suited for the NFL where he doesn't have to recruit and fully develop players is considered "throwing shade", then so the hell be it. There's nothing wrong or incorrect about that. Harbaugh has been a much better NFL coach than he has a college at this point in his career. 

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Opinion.  The gap from OSU to the rest of the conference has been enormous.

You predicting OSU to drop 60 on Michigan again?

Does it really matter after the first 6 TD’s? Michigan hasn’t really been competitive with Ohio State since Harbaugh was hired.

That’s semi-excusable. Losing to MSU more times than not isn’t however, especially considering the supposed talent gap UM has over Sparty. 

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

Lost me at “until this year.”  Playoff appearances and power 5 conference titles are damn hard to come by.

Take a look at Dabo, Saban and now Kirby?  How long did it take them to reach elite status and breakthrough?

Hell, I’ll be more specific…look up how many years to took Dabo to beat his main rival SOUTH CAROLINA?

Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself.

Harbaugh took almost a $30mil pay cut to stay employed at his Alma Mater because he wasn’t getting it done on the field. When a Harbaugh coached team gives up another 60 at the Shoe to OSU the same concerns will once again be voiced. He had a great year this year no doubt, he hasn’t delivered the results of a team who supposedly has the 2nd most talent in the B10.

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ll just continue to keep/post receipts while you grasp at straws.

Here’s another nugget for you…in the six full recruiting cycles since being hired, Harbaugh’s classes at Michigan have averaged 11th nationally and 2nd in the Big Ten.

Next…

Explain his record against the top half of the B10 East the last 6 years? All that talent  and no results until this year. Something isn’t adding up.

4 minutes ago, HHF said:

Agree.  Thats 3 games.  Have 6 others to fill.  Not sure FC would want to schedule CG ahead of that HCC schedule.  Whiteland already tried that and cancelled the series after getting drilled for several years.  Teams are not going to be running to help CG.  Its going to be a challenge for them to build a decent schedule.  

Cathedral to my knowledge is still under contract and I assume Carmel and Center Grove anticipate their rivalry continuing. Decatur has been the Trojans second week opponent the last few so there’s six right there. Center Grove is arguably the hottest commodity in the Midwest right now, zero reason to think they’d struggle adding a couple out of state opponents.

34 minutes ago, HHF said:

CGs best short term solution might be Conference Indiana, where they can be guaranteed 6 games against 5A/6A competition.

Center Grove would be better off scrimmaging themselves six times a season before joining Conference Indiana. Roncalli, Franklin Central, and Whiteland are solid south side schools that make sense from a scheduling standpoint.

27 minutes ago, temptation said:

“Harbaugh isn’t great at player development.”

Not sure using Tom Brady who played simultaneously with Jim Harbaugh in the NFL proves your point. I see Michigan players from Carr, Rich Rod, and Hoke all represented on that graph. So what?

Harbaugh isn’t a great developer of talent nor a great recruiter. You can agree or disagree with that notion all you want. It doesn’t bother me.

1 hour ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I’m not taking ANY PLEASURE as I was a Carmel dad up until this past year when my son graduated.  
 

Where are you getting envy?

I simply stated that your comment about not being beaten isn’t fact, it’s only true about a 2-year run.  Prior to that, Center Grove went 8-6 with a 1-4 start, 9-4 with a 2-3 start and 6-6.  That is fact.  I can’t state that it is fact that CG or Carmel won’t win in 2022, but both Warren and Ben Davis return a plethora of talent and in my opinion, it will be a major challenge for Center Grove and Carmel to defeat both WC and BD.  That’s how it’s worked with the MIC’s top 4 for nearly 20 years.  Don’t act as if CG and Carmel have ran the show, because that’s not true.

 

The sad truth is, that currently, CG and Carmel are left without a conference and, in football, that is a killer.  Both teams can play 2 HCC non conference games (dependent upon contracts), Cathedral, the Copper Kettle game, then only hope that 5 other teams will schedule them.  IMO, there aren’t but maybe 2-3 other teams in all of Indiana that will be competitive with both teams regularly.  This means you’re left with out of state opponents, and all I’m saying is a simple FACT.  CG and Carmel will not benefit from the tens of fans that the other schools bring, nor will a game with an out of state team.  I just asked my son who is now at Valparaiso, who he would rather play each year, Warren Central or East St. Louis and his answer, Warren.

 Carmel and CG’s best option now would be to lure teams from the HCC and maybe North Central to form a new conference.

Its also important to note that this only affects football in my opinion, but in your largest revenue generating sport, these two schools dropped the ball.  Nothing was gained.  Kids were affected today, and there’s no envy.  It infuriates me.  I’m mad that there wasn’t a better plan.  The two schools simply were like an employee who talked to other employees about quitting, then instead of being able to quit, they were fired without another job lined up.  

I have no affiliation now, so I’m not afraid to say, both schools hurt their students today.

Funny was not the appropriate word.  Ironic is more appropriate.

I think you’re dramatically overstating things. Carmel/CG are only guaranteed 4-5 home regular season games a year anyway. Could host Cathedral and Chatard every year and not only would it be an upgrade in competition, but they travel better than almost every current MIC team. Same with Roncalli. Carmel and Center Grove playing home and aways against schools like Louisville Trinity or Cincinnati St. Xavier is good for the state. Guarantee you either of those schools brings more fans the 100 or so miles to Indy than Pike or North Central does.

16 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I find it to be extremely ironic that both CG and Carmel were hoping to bring in programs that brought more gate revenue, yet they’ll now more than likely fill their schedule with Detroit Renaissance, East St. Louis, etc.

 Bravo!  Bravo!

Both schools will have the last laugh winning the 6A title as an independent instead of the HCC. How much gate revenue are HCC members potentially missing out on not including the two most prolific and visible athletic profiles in the state? 

Pretty wild that the three best football programs in the state now have no conference affiliation. Wonder if this will spark a new trend going forward?

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

 

So silly. 

So what's next?

On 1/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, BTF said:

If this new format comes to fruition. 

Who they should schedule and why:

1.        Snider vs Penn – at one time the best non-conference rivalry in the state. This one shouldn’t fade away. Penn leads 9-8, but they are 4-1 during the Yoeman/Tippmann era. Snider wants to right that ship against a program they have a ton of respect for. 

2.       Homestead vs Carmel – Homestead waxed the Greyhounds 27-3 back in 1998. But they are 0-4 ever since with the closest game a 21 point margin. The Spartans need another win to prove they belong with the big boys. Not to mention, the schools and communities are almost mirror images of one another (with the exception of size).

3.       Carroll vs Valparaiso – They’ve never played one another. But I think this would be a good measuring stick for both programs. Nor would they meet again in the playoffs. Both programs appear to be on a level playing field and the drive is only 1.5 hours.

4.       Dwenger vs Central Catholic (Toledo) – Indianapolis rivals Cincinnati, Fort Wayne should rival Toledo. Two cities of similar size separated by only 1.5 hours. Komets vs Walley is vicious. We need this in football too. A border war if you will. Like the Saints, Central Catholic is loaded with football tradition.

5.       Bishop Luers vs Coldwater – Two great programs separated by 1 hour. Both are small schools and Coldwater is widely considered one of the most dominating programs in Ohio pound for pound. If Luers doesn't go after them, someone should.

6.       Northrop vs Leo – Separated by 15 minutes and never met on the gridiron. This would be 5a vs 4a, but Leo is the better program. Northrop isn’t bad, they just play in a good conference. I think this could become a good rivalry.

7.       Concordia vs Indianapolis Lutheran – The battle of the Lutherans. Only three in Indiana with the other being Trinity out of Semour. It’s 3a vs 1a, but I like it. I think others around the state would like it too.

8.       Wayne vs Adams Central – It’s 4a vs 1a, but I think Adams Central would jump at the chance at playing the SAC’s southern most school. The question is, would Wayne go for this. I like the matchup, and at some point, we need to see some Fort Wayne schools take on the hard nosed football programs of Adams County.

9.       South Side vs Indianapolis Attucks – Central Fort Wayne vs Central Indianapolis. I like it. Two struggling programs with similar demographics.

10.   North Side vs New Haven – 5a vs 4a, separated by 8 miles, and have never played one another. Both programs seem to be of equal caliber. 

On the radar: Toledo Whitmer, Bishop Hartley, HCC, DAC, and any school from Lafayette. 

Do OH and MI start their season the same week as Indiana? I think Ohio and Indiana started the same week this year but seem to recall in the past OH starting Labor Day Weekend. I know Cathedral in the past has played teams from OH for their second week opponent that was opening week for the OH opponent. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

1.  59-20...anyone counting 2020 is a fool.  That equates to roughly 9-3 every season which is where Michigan was/has been for its eternity.

2.  Bowl games, outside of the NY6 are largely overrated when it comes to assessing a coach or program for obvious reasons.

3.  The records against OSU and MSU are what they are and it is difficult to defend them though neither program is chopped liver and the argument could be made that both are at an all-time high point in their programs' history.  NO PROGRAM has more "rivals" in America than Michigan (Minnesota, OSU, MSU, Notre Dame) so they will always get everyone's best shot.

4.  Your argument about a QB is also hard to dispute but that's not what you said.  You said he can't develop talent.  There are plenty of other positions on the field and if I am not mistaken, only LSU, Alabama and Ohio State have more draft picks than Michigan since Harbaugh took over.  (You may have to fact check me on that one as I don't have time as Notre Dame, Clemson and Georgia are also close, but UM is easily top 6.)

I told you in my manifesto above why Harbaugh is entertaining his NFL options and why a guy who was supposedly washed up and on the chopping block 365 days ago is suddenly a hot name again.  Its funny how that works.

1. 2020 obviously counts as Harbaugh was forced to take a significant pay cut to stay employed.

2. Michigan fans care about winning their postseason games and 1-5 isn't going to cut it.

3. Won't argue any of that but at Michigan you're expected to beat your rivals. Losing to Ohio State is understandable given the talent they've had, but he's been flat embarrassed in a few of the games. A losing record to MSU isn't acceptable.

4. Most of Michigan's NFL players have come from the defensive side of the ball. Not sure how big of a role Harbaugh plays in developing DL and LB's, but as a former QB who is revered as a QB coach, Michigan has struggled immensely at the QB position since Harbaugh has taken over.

I don't think Harbaugh is chopped liver. He likely is the best that Michigan can and will have as a coach. However, I think Harbaugh's greatest strength is X's and O's and is more suited for a role in the NFL where he doesn't have to worry about recruiting and player development. There's a reason why Saban and Meyer flopped in the NFL. Neither are fantastic play callers and don't have the luxury of recruiting the best talent every year. Harbaugh has shown to be a successful NFL head coach, something a lot of college coaches can't say. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Once again.  Not wasting my time.  You can look up the facts.  You are just recycling the same lazy narratives as the national pundits (who said he’d never come to Michigan to begin with back in 2015).

Dig deeper.

Facts? Harbaugh's record is what it is. 

He's 61-24 since he's taken and over and while that's a solid record, it's not anywhere close to Michigan's expectations. And it looks worse the further you dig into it.

1-5 in bowl games and haven't won a bowl since 2015

1-6 against Ohio State

3-4 against Michigan State

He's yet to develop an NFL caliber QB since he's been at Michigan. I think he's a way better X's and O's coach than he is at program building and that's better suited for a career in the NFL. I'm not entirely sure Michigan can do better than Harbaugh, but I believe Harbaugh is set up for better success in the NFL.