Footballking16

4 hours ago, Sledge said:

Bishop Chatard 2003 I believe

Didn't they win baseball that year as well?

1 hour ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Fort Wayne Snider is most definitely in the top half of 5A enrollment, so they do not fit the critera as defined by @temptation

What about Snider’s long term success when there was only 5 classes? 6A been around for a handful of years. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

A true clown show this guy is.  Snider is currently #42 in enrollment, making them #10 in 5A.

You said a program with long term success. 6A has been around for all of 7-8 years. Snider ran a very successful program long before 6A was created as one of the smaller 5A schools.

I answered your question and you were proven wrong. Clown.

Now go puff your chest some more.

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

Yep.  I get over 9.5 and +20.5.

You disappear for 6 months.

Those weren't my terms.

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

Noblesville and Lake Central have enormously low free and reduced percentages compared to their counterparts around the state/state average.  But you already knew that.

Instead of choosing these types of examples, try harder.  Give me examples that refute my point.  

Name a school that is over 50 percent free and reduced lunch and is not in the top half of its class in enrollment and has had long term success.

I’ll wait…

Snider

1 minute ago, temptation said:

That’s what I heard this year…and they did.  Punter went back to his dorm at halftime.  Wasn’t needed in the 2nd half.

So agree on the terms?

1 hour ago, temptation said:

My turn?

High free and reduced lunch numbers combined with not being in the top of your class in enrollment...a death sentence.

Definitely the reason why Noblesville and Lake Central have unsuccessful football programs. 

Nailed it. 

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nah, $50 is too rich.  I don’t have that Cathedral degree.  I’ll go $25 total and if you lose both, you go away for 6 months.  I’ll do the same.

$25 it is, however I'm not going anywhere win or lose. Not sure my employer knows or cares where I went to high school 15+ years ago but whatever. 

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

Your stats about the 4 times this millennium are hard to argue though only 4 of those contests meet your -20.5 criteria.

Then you're getting great odds and should readily pounce on the spread.

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

I have a feeling the names will change but Michigan’s offense will be better in 2022 than it was this fall.  Will OSU’s defense under their new Big 12 D coordinator?  I have my doubts.

No clue what Ohio State's defense is going to look like next year. Don't really care. just know that Michigan is going to have to score just about every time they touch the ball to keep it close. 

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

You left out one score.

Margin of victory. Ohio State didn't win last year. 

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

I heard that this year.  Day was "going to drop 100."  Fell 73 short.  I love your confidence in OSU's D and your assumption that the past also determines the future by dropping scores of guys that are no longer on either team.  It's cute.

5-1 against Michigan since Harbaugh took over. Michigan has only beaten Ohio State 4 times the millennium. More than enough data to show Michigan doesn't belong in this rivalry in current times.

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

How did the snow impact their linebackers decision to not tackle Hassan Haskins for 3 hours?

Haskins doesn't play on the team anymore nor does a bevy of lineman for Michigan on both sides of the ball. Are you taking both bets? $50 GID donation per each?

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

I pay, when I lose.  Doesn't happen very often.  

Can you enlighten me on your confidence in Ohio State -20.5?  I'm dying to hear your logic.

42-13

30-27

31-20

62-39

56-27

Ohio State's average margin of victory since Harbaugh took over is 19 points. You're lucky a game wasn't played in 2020 or that average margin of victory would be even higher.

Ohio State at home, waiting an entire year to avenge a loss with arguably 3 Heisman trophy candidates (Stroud/Henderson/Smith-Njigba) spells disaster for the Wolverines. Better pray for snow as Day will run it up, no doubt about it. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Ask @BTFabout our gentlemen's bets and how they have worked out for him. 

I'll take the over on 9.5 wins and OSU under 50...

You on board?

I'll take you up on the 9.5. I'll give the Wolverines 20.5 at the Shoe, it ain't going to be pretty.

You going to pay money out of your own pocket this time when donating to the GID fund? I expect it. 

17 hours ago, temptation said:

Will waltz to 10 wins minimum.

Stud transfer at center will ease the OL losses.  Schedule will allow them to break in the new starters on defense.

I’ll take the under on “50 in the shoe” or gimme Michigan to score 51.

Take a lap.

Waltz??

Play @ Ohio State and @ Iowa and Michigan Stadium might as well be renamed Sparty East. Harbaugh will find a way to lose to Michigan State/Penn State, has made a career out of losing a game he shouldn't while in Ann Arbor. 

36 minutes ago, temptation said:

I think this is likely the final nail in the coffin of @Footballking16

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/33305830/coach-jim-harbaugh-agrees-new-5-year-contract-michigan-wolverines%3fplatform=amp

My BOOTS on the ground tell me the base salary is in the neighborhood of $7-7.5 million with incentives that max at around $9 million.

Guess that “disarray” didn’t last very long huh?

Don’t look now but with Michigan’s pat a cake 2022 schedule (would almost make an ND fan blush) and returning talent, the Wolverines are primed to make another playoff run next fall.

Not going to make a playoff giving up 50+ in the Shoe. 
 

Cupcake schedule or not, Michigan will find a way to go 9-3. It’s who they are these days.

Lose their two best players by far in Hutchinson and Obajo and several other defensive starters. Believe they lose 2-3 lineman as well. At least McCarthy has foot speed, he’s going to need.

Happy for you that Michigan has their “Michigan Man”….for now. 

“One time thing”

26 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Some GID mods, both past and present, have think skins.  Not hyperbolic at all.

I like waffles.  Do you?

 

Huh?

DT previously admitted he was too aggressive in trying to take over the site as a pay for play subscription. 

There's no hyperbole, there's not even a slight exaggeration. It deadass happened. And he was banned.

About that waffle...

9 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Heh…heh.  

Arguably likely not your first time, probably just the first time I noticed (and like so many of us - he ain’t what he used to be), but I consider fighting with Muda a certain Baptism here.

I can just vaguely recall in those fictional “polite” days DT so pines for, Muda and I raging  at each other over 5-6 threads…..which was NOTHING compared to all the other windmills Muda was constantly tilting against on the GID.

These days, it’s hard for me to gather up an argument against this fellow sad old libertarian dinosaur as we both lounge and occasionally flop about in the warm tar pit…….Muda humorless as ever.  

Some things never change.

Definitely a right of passage for some.

4 minutes ago, HHF said:

That was probably an overly aggressive move at the time but totally within character.

So not the hyperbole @Muda69 suggests?

5 minutes ago, HHF said:

DrivenT - DT - HHF.  Those are 3 names that I recall.  Did I miss something?

Now that was hyperbole. DrivenTemptation was definitely one. There's 4.

Just now, Muda69 said:

What would TA think of the voluminous amounts of ads a GID user gets presented with on this side if they don't contribute?  How is that any better than a true subscription model?

And your "site takeover" comment is hyperbole at it's finest.

 

So hyperbolic the mods banned him.

Go eat a waffle. 

7 hours ago, Lysander said:

First, as to civility, its a grade school girlfriend's sleepover pillowfight these days on the GID as compared to 15-20 years ago. 

Seriously, are you simply delusional in your senior years or just hoping to pull the wool over the eyes of newbies? 

The knives were out those days.  Some wounds have never quite healed.

Second, didn't "kind, sweet and gentle giant" Tim send your sorry @ss packing? 

That's my recollection...at worst, his co-founders did so just after Tim's death.

I don't really care what you say currently.  I'm totally cool with that.  People say a lot of crap and you are amongst the best.  

But don't rewrite the past and somehow make yourself out as a hero or respecting Tim and his cofounders. 

That's Bullsh!t and you know it.

Vividly remember sometime around 2010-2011 (shortly after TA's passing), when DT tried to take over the site and make it pay for play subscription. Thought that was a total slap in the face to everything TA started and wished to continue. Was never a fan of DT's work before; multiplier, +1 bump, ad nauseum crap that still gets spewed every week here, but it completely turned me off. 

6 screen names and 9 resignations/unretirements later....well, here we are. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

1.  So now it’s “big games?”  ND has dominated its “rivals” in USC and Navy (lol) and won at home against Clemson last year.  Who gets to decide what’s a big game?  There are tons of things for programs to negative recruit and bowl games are low on the list.  How many teams would trade places with the Irish and dream of getting to the playoff?

Clearly I was talking post season, you knew that as you responded to my comment earlier specifically mentioning their postseason struggles. They’re 0fer in the playoff just as they were during the BCS era. Now you’re just being pedantic. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

2.  Your comparison of Indiana basketball still does not fit dude.  IU Basketball fans talk out of both sides of their mouths.  You pretend Purdue is irrelevant and then you rush the floor when you beat them.  Your annual March tradition is rooting for them to lose in the tournament so you can somehow throw shade and brag about your “banners.”  At least Michigan football’s rivals are winning conference championships and OSU even won a title.

I speak for myself, yet I understand they’re tons of delusional Indiana basketball fans just as there are Michigan football fans. Case in point ^^^^
 

Purdue may not have won a national title, but they’ve been damn good the last 5-6 years, winning multiple B10 titles. They’ve got as good a chance as anyone to win it all this year. And of course I root like hell for Purdue to lose in March, what rival wouldn’t? Did you suddenly become Ohio State’s biggest fan once Michigan’s miserable seasons end these last two decades? 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

3.  I gave you the win/loss records of the programs in question that you had around Michigan.  Each of them has had one solid year (more so in the case of a couple) but the ones you mentioned also had that year where they missed bowl eligibility (which is embarrassing in the current college football world where over 50% of the country gets a bowl bid).  Michigan’s “down year” was 8-5.

Michigan was so bad in 2020 that Harbaugh had to take a pay cut to stay employed. Michigan State was worse and still clowned the Wolverines once again. With the exception of one outlier year, Michigan has done nothing but lose to rivals and get embarrassed in bowl games. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

4.  If 4-3 is “owned” then Purdue is using a ball gag on IU in basketball.

Purdue has owned Indiana the last 5-6 years. Third time saying it. Again, I don’t need to find a way to rationalize consistently losing to rivals they way you do.

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

1.  “Everybody” (assume you are referring to the media) is dumb then.  You must be a fan of these shows with talking heads that scream at one another for 30-60 minutes?  Do you honestly think potential recruits take ND’s bowl record into account or (other than the playoff losses) their players that make it to the next level dwell/look back on Bowl losses?  Gimme a break.

You're delusional if you don't think other programs are negatively recruiting Notre Dame's poor track record in big time games.

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

2.  You brought up IU basketball so I ran with it but we are getting off course here.  Isn’t this thread about Harbaugh? If you wanna justify your “banners” and national relevance and need to go back two decades to drop the “they played for a title” line, that’s pretty pathetic.

I brought you up to speed. Like IU basketball, a once proud Michigan Football program has had minimal success at the national level for a long time. 

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

3.  Your 1/7 fits Big Ten titles but it also fits college football playoff appearances.  How many of those does Penn State have while going 3-4 against Michigan since 2015?  (By the way, the final score of the PSU/UM game in 2016 was 49-13 good guys, PSU just lucked out that the game was played early.)

I was talking about Big Ten titles. Does making one playoff automatically make you a top 10 program over X amount of years? Shouldn't Michigan St, Washington, Oregon, Cincinnati be a part of this discussion as well? I can go back and edit my top list if you'd like. 

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

4.  Man, if 4/7 is “owned” I’d hate to see what term you use to describe the Purdue/IU basketball rivalry.

I'd still used the word owned. "Little Brother". Ha. 

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

1.  Crucified by whom?  Once again, rational folks in the media (there are a few) and fans alike understand the steep climb for a program like ND when you against the likes of the big four. Their best RB chose to sit out of last month’s Fiesta Bowl and their coach skipped town prior to the game.  They didn’t care.

Crucified by everybody. Don't play dumb.

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

2.  While I already agreed that there are some parallels to the IU basketball/UM football programs but Michigan’s football success far surpasses anything IU has done in basketball since the turn of the century.  How many times has IU basketball even finished the season ranked or made the second weekend of the tournament?

IU's at least played for a national title this millennium and has as many B10 championship in basketball as Michigan does Football. 

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

3.  I am done picking on IU football.  I was referencing basketball with the 10th-11th best program in the Big Ten statement.

I was talking about IU basketball. IU's been terrible the last 5 years and inherently average the last 20 years sans 4-5 seasons. No shame in admitting that. But I don't need to rationalize it over 30+ posts the way you have with Michigan though.

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

5.  1/7 but that’s one more than Penn State, Wisconsin and Florida combined…all programs you placed ahead of Michigan.

Penn State won the B10 in 2016. 

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

6.  I’d also like to challenge your statement that Michigan State has “owned” Michigan.  4/7 is hardly owning someone, especially with the way the games have gone down, but you already knew that.

Michigan State has a winning record against Harbaugh and is 10-4 against Michigan since Lloyd Carr retired. #Owned

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

NO one outside of the CFP is graded on postseason success.  This isn’t the NFL.

That just isn't true. I'm the biggest Notre Dame detractor there is and they get absolutely crucified for their inability to win a meaningful postseason game dating back to the BCS era. 

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

You just put Michigan at 10/11 and in the next breath claimed they are irrelevant while making the IU basketball comparison again, lol?

Both are has-been programs living in the past. Still top 10 programs historically with minimal national success the last 20 years. I don't see it as a reach at all. 

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

IU has been around 10/11 in the Big Ten during the time period discussed.

Indiana has been terrible, but you don't see me making 30+ posts trying to rationalize why they aren't. 

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

“Michigan isn't a top team in the B10 anymore.”

LOL.

One year. Harbaugh's been there seven. 1/7 ain't great for a supposed top 10 program. 

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

I just can't imagine you dying on this hill without admitting you've been wronged by the University of Michigan somehow.  No rational/sane person uses BOWL games in modern football as a talking points, ESPECIALLY wins in late December bowls or wins against non-power 5 teams in bowl games.  

But here you are...backed into a corner using it as your last line of defense to stand by your sticking point that Michigan is AT WORST the 11th best program in America.

Michigan a) doesn't beat their rivals and b) doesn't win its postseason games. Am I supposed to pat you on the back and say congratulations for beating the Indiana's, the Rutgers', and the Maryland's of the world? You deserve your top 10 ranking? Every single team at the top is graded on postseason success and Michigan's record is pathetic. I'd be saying postseason games were meaningless as well if I were in your shoes. Getting pumped regularly and losing to teams like South Carolina probably does it for you. 

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

Imagine throwing shade at a team that just finished #3 in the country.

I've said repeatedly that Michigan finally had a good year. It's also an outlier to date. Change my mind.

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

The CFP is damn hard to get to and Michigan is fresh off of a conference title, a 12 win season and an appearance in the Orange Bowl and you want to talk about teams who are winning the Duke's Mayo Bowl and Pinstripe Bowl.  It is CFP or bust.  Hell, guys even opt out of NY6 bowls regularly in this era.  If they are deemed irrelevant and not worth the time of the actual players on the team, then hell yes I can call them meaningless as a fan.

You've been to one CFB playoff game and got embarrassed. Washington, Cincinnati, and Sparty can all lay the same claim. Doubt you consider those teams top 10 based on one game. One CFB appearance/national title implication game doesn't negate 20 some years of mediocrity at the national level. Teams who consistently perform at the national level are considered the best teams, Michigan ain't one of them. Try harder. 

15 minutes ago, temptation said:

As for the rivals comment, the record IS what it is.  I admit it is underwhelming. 

1.  But no program in America has more rivals than Michigan (Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan State, Minnesota, hell Michigan even plays Northwestern for a damn trophy now).

2.  At no point in either MSU or OSU's history has their brand been better or their football program in a better spot than it is now.  We all can't have PURDUE as our rival, or Tennessee/Iowa as I mentioned above.  Give those programs credit.

Those are not excuses but simple facts.

Any 10-11 win season for any program not named Alabama, Georgia, Clemson or Ohio State is a success.  Only 15% of college football programs can say they have won that many in any given year.

Michigan doesn't play ND regularly anymore and their two main rivals are OSU and MSU who both own Michigan right now. It's why I've repeatedly stated Michigan isn't a top team in the B10 anymore, let alone the country. They not only beat Michigan on the field, they win their postseason games as well. 

Until Michigan can consistently put together seasons like last year, they'll always be a has been program who talks about all-time wins and TV ratings. I get it, IU basketball fans do the same thing. It's one of the ways to rationalize about being nationally relevant. 

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

One of those NY6 bowls Penn State won was against MEMPHIS, while Michigan got matched up with Alabama.  

ONE playoff appearance trumps 2 NY6 bowl wins and gimme a break on the Las Vegas Bowl, Pinstripe Bowl, Duke's May Bowl or Holiday Bowl win meaning jack shit.

Penn State's rival is...PITT?  Wisconsin'sare IOWA and MINNESOTA?  Come on dude.  Admit defeat.

I'm playing your game. 

What is considered a successful Michigan season these days? 20-30 years ago it was was beating your rivals (ND/OSU/Michigan St), winning B10 titles, and competing for national championships.

Michigan has ONE B10 title since 2004, zero national title appearances, and a dogsh*t record against both OSU and Michigan State. Their postseason record is dogsh*t in said time frame.

What top 10 program can't regularly compete for a conference championship and gets continually clowned by their rival(s)? Outside this past year (my outlier), what is truly the last "successful" season Michigan has had? And if you want to try and tell me 2018 where they lost to both Ohio State and Notre Dame while getting housed in a significant bowl game, it further proves how far Michigan has fallen. 

You don't get to call Jan 1 bowl games like the Gator or Outback Bowl meaningless unless you're a team like Alabama, Ohio State, or Clemson who continually play for national titles, especially when you can't win the bowl games you're assigned too. 

There's zero barometer of success for Michigan under Harbaugh with the exception of last year. 

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

Now you are just doubling down.  I will be nice and give you the first 7.  With Penn State and Wisconsin, you are reaching.

Even if you include the losses to both Penn State and Wisconsin in 2020, which I have disputed but will give you in this instance, Michigan is 4-3 against PSU and 3-3 against Wisconsin.  Neither PSU nor Wisconsin has made the playoff and Michigan (61-24) has a better record than Penn State (62-29) and Wisconsin is slightly better at 65-23 with a MUCH easier path, playing in the Big Ten West (you said so yourself in so many words in the other thread).

Furthermore, your Florida "toss up" is laughable as the Gators are 58-31 in that same time span while playing in the SEC East which is akin to the Big Ten West in many ways.  Michigan has a 2-1 record against Florida under Harbaugh (1-1 in those "prestigious" bowl games you speak of where nearly anyone with draft potential opts out).  And as far as rivalry games, it helps when one of your rivals is TENNESSEE, which is a dumpster fire.

Playing devils' advocate, even IF I concede your list above of 9 certainties, you just admitted that Michigan is a top 10 program.

Thanks for playing.

Penn State is 2-0 in NY6 Bowls and has a Rose Bowl appearance.

Wisconsin is 6-1 in Bowl Games with their lone loss in the Rose Bowl.

I know you said bowl games don't matter, but I guess beating your rivals don't either. What's the draw for Michigan? I don't understand?