Footballking16

53 minutes ago, BTF said:

I don't buy the idea that a team doesn't have a shot without any Top 50 players. Football is a team sport which consists of 11 on offense, 11 on defense, and a slew of others on special teams. Sure top rated players help, but it's not the end all be all. 

Why are we acting like Warren is in the gutter? I could have swore they won the whole thing in 2018, correct me if I'm wrong. So they had a few down years, that means nothing. Again, good coach + big enrollment + lots of athletes = powerhouse. Someone keep a receipt on this please. 

Temp..........I'm misunderstanding your post. What I'm reading is that Warren had a kid transfer to Cathedral and Cathedral had one transfer to New Pal?

 

Never said Warren is in the gutter, simply disagree they are trending up. 

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

I guess we'll have to revisit this conversations after two or three years with Kirschner at the helm. He won state titles at Ben Davis, he'll do the same at Warren Central. 

Warren Central doesn’t have a single player in its senior class rated in the top 50 prospects in the state. That’s unacceptable for a program of that magnitude. I see 4, maybe 5 regular season wins for the Warriors this year and by the grace of playing in arguably the weakest pound for pound sectional in the state, get a free pass to the Regional round where they will inevitably lose to CG by 2-3 TD’s. 
 

There’s 4-5 teams in my opinion who have a shot at the 6A title this year and Warren isn’t one of them.

28 minutes ago, BTF said:

Warren is trending up.

Big enrollment + Mike Kirschner = very dangerous. 

Warren is sub .500 the last two years, lost to LC (scored 8 points) in the opening round of sectionals last year, and is now ducking premier opponents in the state. We have a very different definition of “trending up”.

Warren Central used to be in that same conversation with Ed’s, St. X, and Trinity as to who is the Midwest’s premier football program. Not any more they aren’t. 

22 hours ago, BTF said:

St. X, Trinity, and St. Ed's are "massive" upgrades over WC?

The way Warren has been trending? Absolutely.

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Dropped by Whiteland, Roncalli, Decatur Central and Warren Central

Probably works out better for Center Grove.

St. X, Trinity, St. Ed's, etc would likely love to get a chance to play Center Grove. All those are massive upgrades from the aforementioned. Doubt CG is losing any sleep over it. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

I will.  Next to my wife/girlfriend.

Nice!!!

I’ve been married all of 16 days, don’t jinx it.

20 minutes ago, HHF said:

You are argumentative and confrontational.  You've probably been told this by your HR Director, Therapist, Priest. Doctor, Attorney, wife and girlfriend. 

Im sure you are used to it by now. 

Like I said, I generally get along with all but 2 or 3 people on this site.

Don’t sweat it. Just be better.

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Curious where I fall here.  I might lose sleep tonight.

Please tell me I made the cut.

You owe too much money for all the space I occupy in your head and I don’t want to jeopardize that.

Sleep well.

3 hours ago, HHF said:

Why does this idiot have an argumentative tone with everyone he encounters on this site?  Is it us or him?  

I generally respect all but 2-3 posters on this site. Your comment yesterday was out of line, opinionated or not. 

15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

It is what this forum is all about.  If you and other don't like hearing other people's opinions just leave.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. And I'm entitled to call out a misogynic opinion when I see one.

If you don't like it you can leave. 

1 minute ago, HHF said:

There is clearly no connection.  If you took the time to comprehend the logic behind the post, instead of trying to be witty and stupid and a smartass, you might have already figured it out.

So just a wildly unfound opinion then? 

More schools might contract their football teams because a woman is in charge and they don't understand/care for football? How ignorant is that? 

Just now, HHF said:

Sub 1A fledgling schools dont move the needle on participation.  

What non-1A fledgling schools have contracted their football programs in the last 5 years?

7 minutes ago, HHF said:

ADs and Admins would rather get beaten to a pulp week after week than lose football revenue and deep six their entire athletic budget.  It is what it is.  

Looking forward, we have a new generation of admins who are considerably less sportsminded, often times more female, and will likely be more willing to pull the plug on football than would their predecessors.  

Evidence of this?

How many schools in the last 5 years have relegated to a JV schedule or completely contracted their football programs? If anything I see more and more schools offering football than ones voluntarily choosing to shut it down.

10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I'm just curious if the issue is Cathedral is actually more heterogeneous than the Roncallis and Chatards.  Most folks see Cathedral as a Catholic school, but it's more of a private school with a Catholic bent.  I'm not sure of the demographics of the school, but diocesan schools tend to be much more homogenous.  I know Brebeuf isn't a diocesan school, but I suspect it's much more Catholic than Cathedral.  Similarly Chatard, LCC, Guerin, and Roncalli.  That may well then have more of an SES impact across p/ps.  You find LOTS of Catholics at those diocesan schools that are scraping by to send their kids to those schools because of the Catholic education whereas I wonder if there's an SES difference between Cathedral and it's Catholic counterparts.  Again, I'm not sure if that's something at play or not.  Is there any info, either data-driven or anecdotal that speaks to the Catholic/non-Catholic mix at Cathedral vs. it's Catholic counterparts?

Cathedral is a private school that offers a Catholic-based education. It is true that Cathedral isn't as homogenous as the Diocesan schools and that is because Cathedral doesn't have any direct feeders as it not part of the Diocese. I'd still say Cathedral is 70-75% catholic but does tend to take a lot more kids from public schools as it really has to to keep it's doors open. 

Brebeuf and Cathedral both probably fall around the same split for Catholic/Non-Catholic, if anything Brebeuf has less % of Catholics, as well as SES. A lot of kids from Carmel and the affluent parts of Indy (Williams Creek/Meridian-Kessler) attend Brebeuf as it's just down the road. 

1 minute ago, BTF said:

I think Snider is just more committed to their football program than Northrop is. The Bruins have talent. They've always been solid at track and baseball. 

If Cathedral is more committed to their football program than Roncalli is, just say so. I'm not from Indy, I'm just wondering why their is the talent gap that you speak of. 

I'm not sure there is one specific reason as to why. I'd say looking at CYO over the last 10-15 years however is probably the biggest indicator. The northside deanery schools that feed into Cathedral, Chatard, and to an extent Brebeuf on average are usually significantly better than the average southside deanery schools that feed into Roncalli. Roncalli for the longest time ran an archaic offense under Coach Scifries that wasn't conducive to modern football that could have potentially been a turn off to prospective skill-position player. I can't tell you the last time Roncalli produced a D1 player at QB, RB, or WR. 

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Why is that? Why does a kid that goes to Cathedral have more talent then a kid that goes to Roncalli? Do the Irish do a better job of going after top rated talent? Or is Cathedral's strength and conditioning program just that good? If Cathedral's talent level is astronomically higher than their competitors, I'm just curious as to why. I can assure you that a Catholic kid from Dwenger is no different than one at Cathedral, yet Cathedral would have gone 10-0 against Dwenger over the last ten years. Why the big difference? 

Why is Snider some much more talented than Northop? 

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

Told ya. 
 

Triggered.

 

Roncalli having one blue chip recruit in the last 15 years doesn't equate to anything.

2 minutes ago, HHF said:

Roncalli is 25-2 with one state title over the same period.  Right on the Irish heels.  Both schools will be favored to win state again this year.  RHS will be 5A soon.  

They didn't get out of 4A regionals last year...

2 minutes ago, HHF said:

Thats not what the numbers and the recruiting analysts say.  Think what you will.

Cathedral is 28-2 the last two years with two 5A state titles. The numbers say it all. 

2 minutes ago, HHF said:

Keep in mind what I stated.  Im suggesting that RHS has caught up with Cathedral at the current moment.  Im not looking at 5 to 10 years into the past.

In the 2022 cycle, CHS had 3 players in the Top 62 (247 Recruiting) and RHS had 2 players.  RHS had the highest rated player in Sam Seacrest at #23

In the 2023 cycle, CHS has 4 players in the Top 39, RHS has 3.  RHS has the top rated player in Trevor Lauck at #4

RHS had the highest rated player between the two for the past two recruiting cycles. 

Based on the numbers and the rankings, Id call them close to dead even at the current moment.  

Fact is, over the past two recruiting cycles, if you were looking for the top college prospect between the two schools, you'd go to RHS first.  

And I'm still guessing Cathedral would have beaten Roncalli by 3+ scores any of the last two years and by more this coming year had they played. Roncalli isn't on the same stratosphere in overall talent as Cathedral. 

1 hour ago, BTF said:

If I'm living somewhere in the Indy Metro with a kid who is a gifted football player and wanting him to go to a private school, then I'm sending him to Cathedral more than likely. Sure, I'll take a look at Roncalli and Chatard. But it all starts with the Irish. Kudos to that program for building it to where it is today. 

If Cathedral is producing the kind of athletes from only their student body and no kids enrolling there for football reasons, then they need to hold a strength and conditioning clinic for every Power Five football program in America.

Again, not picking on them, just love seeing them rumble with the big boys in 6A. Because after all, they are a "big boy" when it comes to football. Easily a Top 5 program statewide, not sure why they would even want to play down a class. That's not challenging your program in my opinion.  

What on Earth does that have to do with anything? Every single private school in Metro Indy has the ability to draw from the same 2 million people and theoretically so does every public school in Metro Indy with open enrollment. Cathedral is playing in 6A the next two years because they accumulated the necessary SF points to bump up now a second class. Please alert me when the IHSAA starts classifying schools by the desirability of one of its members athletic programs. Your comment last night about drawing from 2 million as a reason why Cathedral belongs in 6A can literally be applied to every other private school in the state, none of which I’ve seen you advocate for playing in 6A.

7 hours ago, HHF said:

I think most college recruiters would tell you that today, RHS has more high end college talent on hand than does CHS.  The Roncalli offensive and defensive lines have just been loaded in these last two recruiting cycles.

RHS decided to drop CHS a decade ago when the Irish pulled well out in front from a competitive standpoint.  RHS has closed the gap and is right there, in my opinion.  Mt Vernon is a helluva program and RHS had a bad night,  It happens.  

If the two were to square off in this years opener, Id call it a pick em.  

You’re kidding? More high end talent than Cathedral? Cathedral has had a starter in each of the last two national title games, has now 3 active NFL players with Doyle’s retirement but will soon have a 4th when Emil Ekiyor is drafted next Spring.

Genuinely asking, does Roncalli have a single alumnus playing at a P5 school on scholarship right now? 

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Triggered.  Hang on tight boys.

Nah. Just making a point. 

3 hours ago, HHF said:

Roncalli is there .  Their talent is on par with Cathedral and they are a Top 5 team in the state.

Brebeuf not there yet but gaining.  Brebeuf does not have the football pedigree, history or deep gridiron DNA that CHS and RHS possess.  Im not sure yet if that is who they want to be.  

Really hard to tell where Roncalli stands in comparison to Cathedral because Roncalli has ducked Cathedral for more than 10 years. My guess is they’re still light years behind. They didn’t even win 4A last year.

3 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Cmon now

C’mon now what? 
 

4 hours ago, BTF said:

Someone on here told me that Cathedral doesn't have feeder schools. If that's false, and Cathedral  draws only from their pipeline like Dwenger does, then I stand corrected. It was my understanding that Cathedral draws from all over. 

Who told you Cathedral doesn’t have feeder schools? They aren’t a diocesan school per se, but make no mistake, they draw the same kids from the same schools year after year. Brebeuf is in the same boat as they aren’t a diocesan school either.
 

This debate ended 10 years ago when Indianapolis and the surrounding counties went to open enrollment. 

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Not only will this guy vehemently deny that Cathedral boasts HUGE advantages over its public school counterparts, he will actually consistently double down and cite their supposed “huge disadvantage” usually in terms of enrollment.

Someone should tell him, they are Goliath and not David.  I’ve tried.

Lol who said David vs Goliath? Certainly not me.

I was responding to the claim that Cathedral is now playing schools their own size. Cathedral hasn’t played in 4A in nearly a decade.