Footballking16

19 minutes ago, temptation said:

You are taking football.  There are 19 other sports to consider…and in most of them the remaining 6 aren’t competitive with Carmel and CG.

Once I saw Carmel and CG were going 1-2 in TRACK AND FIELD, I knew the baton (pun intended) had been passed.

 

The MIC is still very competitive in most of those other 19 sports in comparison to the rest of the non-MIC schools. Not sure how removing Center Grove and Carmel helps them in the long run considering each of those sports playoff format is all-inclusive. 

20 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

People do it all the time on GID.  Learn to ignore it if it bothers you.  Nobody if forcing you to respond in the manner that you do.  That is 100% under your control. 

And yes...I do understand the difference.  No need to be condescending.  

So again, forgive me for calling someone out trying to control a narrative that doesn't exist. 

22 minutes ago, temptation said:

Unless you are sick of losing to them in everything…

I mean maybe, but still don't understand why you'd kick out the two most visible programs in your conference. I get it if you're a school like Ben Davis and Warren Central who've had their thunder stolen by these two schools the last 5-10 years, but the MIC bottom feeders needs those two schools more than Center Grove in Carmel need them. 

Pike and North Central just went from being bad football programs in an elite football conference to bad football programs in just an ok conference. Perception means a lot. 

20 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Thank you for making my point.....after all, you are the smartest guy on GID.

You have serious issues dude....you are so ate up with not measuring up, it forces you to strike at people.  But only behind a keyboard is my guess.

SMH

So you agree with me? You can't tell the difference between forming an opinion and making a claim without any supporting data or evidence? Thanks for playing I guess? 

20 minutes ago, temptation said:

I think that FC and Avon have the ability to have more success in the long run if they go to the MIC.  Their socioeconomic profile would place them at the top of the MIC as opposed to the bottom of the HCC.  They aren’t winning much in anything currently.

I’m going to make a counter point here.  I think Carmel is the elephant in the room.  Though not quite as dominating, a Carmel move to the HCC means that current conference members will have an even steeper climb to the top of the top of the conference in most sports.

That’d be a tough sell for me.

There would have to be serious traction for CG and Carmel to already have open-ended invites to other conferences for the MIC to vote them out in the manner in which they did I would think. You just don't vote schools like Center Grove and Carmel out on a whim like that, hurting your conference profile. 

36 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Playing devil's advocate here - if that is how you feel about those schools - that one of the best high school coaches to ever roam the sidelines in Indiana could not win at any of the four schools mentioned... shouldn't they consider contraction and eliminating football?

Contracting a school's football program because they have no shot at winning a state title is about as bad as an idea there is. Much more to football at this level than winning. 

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

Agree but at this point, it’s about damage control.  They can’t elevate their profile but they can marginalize damage.

I still maintain Franklin Central and Avon makes the most sense.

Would Franklin Central and Avon voluntarily leave? Does the HCC vote them out to make room? Carmel to the HCC makes total sense given their geographical ties, CG not so much. 

Honestly think Center Grove is better served going independent, at least from a football stand point. Not sure if the current MIC teams would ever schedule Center Grove (and Carmel) again and vice versa, but I do think Center Grove would greatly benefit from being able to play a more regional football schedule. It would give them much more visibility if they were able to play the Cincinnati and Louisville power houses a couple times a year. 

21 minutes ago, foxbat said:

So what does "culturally align" mean?  I'm hoping it's not a dog-whistle issue.

So the questions, from a purely football perspective, is "Where do Carmel and/or Center Grove land?" and "Who does the MIC court for replacement?"

So could the NCC go smaller-school and have Jeff and Harrison and perhaps Kokomo and maybe McCutcheon join with Carmel and Center Grove in a new league?  That would open up things in the NCC for the remaining schools and provide better competition for Jeff/Harrison.  Perhaps not so much for Carmel and Center Grove.  Guess it depends if HCC opens up for Carmel / Center Grove.

At this point the MIC just needs to focus on becoming the premier basketball conference in the state. Sans Cathedral, there isn't a feasible school the MIC could add that elevates their football profile. LC/LN one day potentially consolidating would make a good football program but there's no guarantee in that. I'd add Tech and Bloomington South if they strictly wanted to focus on being a basketball dominate conference, but even that seems out of the realm. 

18 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

FTA:

How true is this statement?  If it is valid then I say the rest of the MIC voting them out is justified.

 

Justified sure, still equally as petty. If Alabama openly talked about becoming an independent on the premise of receiving their own TV deal with 100% revenue share you think the SEC is going to vote them out? Of course not. 

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

“Hey boss, rumor has it that the two guys who work in the front of the store are quitting soon.”

”Not on my watch they aren’t.  They are fired.”

Yes rumor has it. Let Center Grove and Carmel take their ball and leave if they're really about it.

Petty move by the MIC. 

22 minutes ago, temptation said:

Center Grove and Carmel voted out of the MIC.

 

The principals from the Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference from Ben Davis High School, Lawrence Central High School, Lawrence North High School, North Central High School, Pike High School and Warren Central High School want to share with our communities some decisions we have made regarding the future of the MIC conference.

 

During the 1996-97 school year, 8 schools came together with a clear vision: “The Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference provides a model for interscholastic excellence. Within a framework of appreciation and support of the unique characteristics of member schools, the Conference enhances student opportunities and achievement in all areas of each school’s program.” The 8 schools that formed the MIC were from urban, rural and suburban areas around Indianapolis. Those unique characteristics of the member schools were the bedrock of this conference.

 

The MIC was formed as more than an athletic conference; the founders wanted to enhance student opportunities and achievement in all areas of each school’s programs. Each year the MIC holds an academic banquet where department chairs and administrators from all the schools come together and learn from each other. Many of us who came into administration through our schools learned of the MIC Academic Banquet well before we understood the MIC as an athletic conference. Each year we hold a student leadership conference, a MIC Choir festival, a charitable fundraiser in ceramics entitled Empty Bowls, a MIC brain game, and we were in the process of adding a MIC Jazz festival. The collegiality of the MIC went well beyond athletics. All of our programs, from Performing Arts, to JROTC, from bowling to spell bowl, continue to be competitive statewide and nationally on a yearly basis. The principals have worked together for the past 24 years to create a community of learners.

 

This past fall it came to our attention that for athletic reasons, as well as a desire to “culturally align” (as reported in the media) with surrounding suburban schools, Carmel and Center Grove were seeking placement in a different conference. We value the historical relationships with these two communities, and while this news was sad to those of us who understand the rich history, we also understand that these two schools no longer share the vision that we are more than an athletic conference, that athletics should not drive our decisions, and that our unique characteristics are what make us strong.

 

On Monday, December 13th, the 6 remaining principals made the difficult decision to vote Center Grove and Carmel out of the conference. Article V, section 4 of the MIC Constitution allows for the removal of other schools with a unanimous vote of the remaining schools and just cause. This vote will allow these two schools to seek a conference that aligns with their visions.

 

Over the next few months, we will be in discussions with other school systems who value the diversity our conference offers, who want to engage in a strong community of educators who believe the conference should be more than athletics, but who also, as we have said in the MIC for years, want to “play the best in order to be the best.” The MIC was founded on these beliefs. If we find school districts who want to compete at the highest level, in every sport, and push our students and staff to be the very best in the state, all while helping to create a diverse yet unified community, then they will be considered great candidates.

 

Until we find such candidates, we will remain a powerful 6 and compete against other powerful schools in neighboring states if opportunities should arise. The 6 schools will honor all athletic contracts through the 2022-23 school year; however, during the spring season of 2022, the MIC Conference will comprise solely of the 6 schools listed below.

 

We believe Indianapolis, Indiana and the country needs unification, not separation. The MIC is built on understanding our differences and learning from each other. Our goals, as outlined by the founders of the MIC, are that the conference: 1) provides an environment in which sportsmanship is valued and displayed, 2) recognizes student achievement in a variety of endeavors, 3) raises the level of expectations and competition and 4) provides opportunities for the exchange of ideas, programs and people. Should we find other schools who share our vision and will affirm these goals, we will entertain expansion.

 

Can't wait for folks' thoughts on this one...

1. Incredibly dumb move by the MIC. Not only are they going to lose statewide visibility, but also regional visibility. Many considered MIC to be one of the premier athletic conferences in the Midwest, voting out your two bread winners makes ZERO sense.

2. While this obviously paves the way for CG and Carmel to the HCC, let it be known this is not CG and Carmel leaving on their own accord for greener pastures. The HCC will soon become the premier conference in Indiana due to the MIC's own demise. 

29 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

The manner in which you disagree absolutely are personal attacks.  Go back and read your responses.  Foxbat disagreed with HHF in a very positive manner....not making it personal.  Read his response and then with an open mind read yours.  Not sure why the bitterness or why you feel the need to demean others having an opinion differently than yours.  It really is a shame.....

LOL.

There is a 100% difference between "having an opinion" and then grandstanding the idea of contraction based on unfounded data and evidence as well as claims of hyperbolic and anecdotal evidence of catastrophic injuries that haven't occurred. Please don't fall into the category of not being able to distinguish between the two. I don't think I could possibly set the bar any lower for you as is. 

I have no problem with DT opining in his beliefs on contraction. But for the love of God do it on merit. "I said so" or "common sense" isn't a basis for which to form an opinion. Data however is and he hasn't provided a single source of evidence to back his claim. 

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

I was wondering the same.  

Calling you out on your BS isn't a personal attack by the way. 

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Im not in the data business.  Im in the opinion business.  Lets stay in our respective lanes.

 

Like I said, there's a reason why people in power don't take you seriously. 

19 minutes ago, HHF said:

We are not trying to get you on the bandwagon.  You are hopelessly clueless and demonstrably unable to consider anything other than statistical data.  Rational thought is not in your arsenal.

Oh wow, forgive me for not subscribing to something that isn't rooted in statistical data? If it was so rational you could provide at least one example of one of these catastrophic injuries you keep bringing alluding too, no? You've had all weekend to come up with something? Do you need more time?

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

Glad you enjoyed the read.  Again, what's right at Cathedral is right for everyone else.  

He mentioned specifically that he coached at public schools for more than a decade.

I'll take his input over yours everyday and twice on Sunday. I wouldn't trust you fetching my trash cans let alone providing some kind of data or proof to the subject at hand. And it's simply because you can't. 

22 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes. Safety first.  Not adults living vicariously through their children.

 

If you can shed to light one ounce of data or evidence that suggests small/rural school football players are somehow more susceptible to CTE than players who play at larger, urban schools then I'm all ears. Until then, I'm going to need more than hyperbole and made up statistics, and sure as hell need more than, "Because DT says so", to jump on the contraction bandwagon. 

Sorry.

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Youre not worth the effort.  Really, please leave,  Dont you have an HCC thread you can go visit?

Keep grandstanding, maybe somebody one day will take you serious....

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

Kindly leave so us adults can continue our conversation.  You will find some links in your toy box Im sure.  

I expected something a little more clever than that...

2 hours ago, HHF said:

Seriously?  You want me to link you to football concussion data?  You must be the laziest person on this site

No.

I want a link that small town Indiana football players are somehow more at risk to CTE than 6A football players from Indianapolis.

34 minutes ago, HHF said:

Given what we have learned about concussion impact on football players, it would be wise for the IHSAA to "nudge" some programs into contraction before somebody really gets hurt, or even killed.  Some small town Indiana schools are putting their young people in harms way, setting back 75 years of football safety progress, by allowing their youth to participate in horrific mismatches.  The Mercy Rule will not revive a dead teenager.  

Link?

1 hour ago, superjay said:

I would be for this idea.  But would rather see schools be allowed to opt out of the tournament and play one or two more games against other teams that have opt out.

If that’s the case, why not just go to a playoff qualifier? Add a tenth regular season game, cut the field in half, and the teams that don’t qualify are free to seek out an opponent in a bowl-like scenario to end their season?

26 minutes ago, foxbat said:

No nerve, just found it a weak argument, given that I have three school affiliations ... two public and one P/P ... and two conference affiliations ... and there's only a single P/P in both of those conferences ... listed on my account, and I get tagged for the P/P school as if somehow that negates everything else. 

Also, the issue has nothing to do with even competitive balance or anything else.  I don't see why ANY TEAM should have to not field a team because someone put in an arbitrary minimum number to force them out.  Whether or not a school decides to field a team or not should be the sole decision of that school and their constituency.  I'm not sure of the NFHS rules about minimum number that you can have on the field at a time, but about the only time I could the the IHSAA stepping in and telling a school no dice, or anyone for that matter, is if they have less than 11 on the team.

Exactly.

School officials and coaches are going to have a much better grasp on their OWN program over some blowhard on a message board who loves to yell, "CONTRACT, CONTRACT".

26 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Meh, this is weak.  Sheridan is in tony Hamilton county, part of the Indy metro area.  

Sheridan is also a 1A school and up until that time the state had never had a 1A winner. Again, there's more than enough data in the nearly 30 years the award has been given that shows the award goes to a 1) CENTRAL INDIANA PLAYER and 2) A LARGE CLASS PLAYER more times than it goes to anybody else. 

16/29 winners have come from Central Indiana

22/29 winners have come from the State's two largest classes a\with 14 of those from the largest class.