Footballking16

1 hour ago, gaby said:

Tayven Jackson, Daniel Weems, Caden Curry, Mitchell Evans.  That’s four things.

Anyway, the beautiful thing is they play head to head on October 15.  So it will prove itself out.  I stand by my statement, ignorant as you may think it is.

CG had all those guys last year as well. Two pretty evenly matched teams last year and I bet Cathedral returns more starters. I’m obviously biased, but I think Cathedral has the best defense in the state front to back. Obviously CG’s front 4 speaks for itself, but pretty sure CG is pretty inexperienced at LB and loses some key pieces in the secondary. October 15th should be a battle.

8 minutes ago, DT said:

I get it.  trust me, I get it

Well not really.

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Do you really think the other PPs have feeder systems similar to a Frankfort, Yorktown, Jennings County, Rushville, Highland, Wawasee< etc?

I have no clue what other P/P feeder programs look like and frankly don't care. From the poster above it sounds like a lot of the Evansville kids play in the same youth leagues as the public school kids. 

18 minutes ago, DT said:

Indy Catholic CYO football is run like a professional organization.  Tightly managed.  Huge community support.  Strong finances.  It is the basic building block of the Chatard-Roncalli-Cathedral football machine.

 

So why do the rest of the state P/P's get lumped in with regards to an automatic one class bump?

The CYO advantage stems from the depth that is produced at the feeder level. In other words, a 3A school like Chatard is drawing from 7-8 small catholic grade schools on the northside of Indianapolis who all have their own football teams comprised of 15-20 players who all get to play compared to a 3A public who may only be drawing from 1 large junior high school, in some cases two. So in most years Chatard is bringing in 3-4 QB's who have all started from 3rd grade on, 5-6 RB's, a ton of OL/DL, and so on. It not only provides depth once they get to the 9th grade but also competition that always rises to the top.

If a school like Frankfort is just learning how to put on pads and standing in a huddle in the 9th grade that is a Frankfort problem, not a Chatard problem. 

16 minutes ago, DT said:

There is no IHSAA conspiracy against the PPs.  Hogwash

Lol

44 minutes ago, Lysander said:

What a joke.  Just look at what the IHSAA (or the “stepped down” Tri-West AD if I recall correctly) did in Sectional 28.

It’s a given that Cathdral, Chatard and Roncalli will be lumped together In sectionals whenever and however possible.

 

Also, 5A isn't pretty spread out throughout Indy Metro, just more feeble conjecture on DT's part. Cathedral is currently a sectional with both Terre Haute Schools nearly 100 miles away. Only way Roncalli and Cathedral wouldn't be in the same sectional is if Cathedral somehow went North although Dwenger being an auto bump would almost assuredly prevent that from happening. 

22 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

What are you going to do if/when they dominate 6A, too?  Because they probably would.  Burn their schools down?

7A babyyyyy!!!

Really looking forward to the Class 84A one off state champion game between Cathedral and Roncalli in 2043.

16 minutes ago, DT said:

5A is pretty spread out in Indy metro and good chance IHSAA could keep the two apart in the first round.

Lol. If Cathedral and Roncalli are in the same tournament you can rest be assured they are in the same sectional and playing each other in the first round. Tale as old as time. Geographically, there isn't a school closer to Cathedral than Roncalli at the 5A level. 

15 minutes ago, DT said:

The SF/1 Bump combo would push Roncalli and Cathedral up to 5A with an opportunity to play their way up to 6A.  We all know that both schools are 6A level programs and given the direction of the game today, will likely remain there.  

Roncalli and Cathedral would be in the same 5A sectional and thus highly unlikely they would simultaneously be playing in 6A.  

35 minutes ago, DT said:

Would you not consider the combined 67 state championships of Cathedral, Roncalli, Chatard, Luers, LCC, Dwenger and Ritter to be an example of "success?"

Does an automatic one class bump really solve things? The SF has essentially been an automatic one class bump for many privates since it's inception and when you cut off the head of one snake the next one arises. Does anyone not think Roncalli and Dwenger are the odds on favorite to win 5A most years with Cathedral going to 6A? Chatard to win 4A with Dwenger and Roncalli in 5A? And so on and so on? 

40 minutes ago, Jon said:

Give me Westfield with the third best senior QB Webster over untested sophomore QB 

Westfield 24 Cathedral 21

 

I’d concede that argument if Westfield had Cathedral’s offensive line and defense but that isn’t the case. QB play is really the only one question mark coming into the season, and while starting a sophomore QB doesn’t seem ideal, O’Neil isn’t like most sophomore QB’s. Already holds FBS offers and played varsity last year.

Oh quick O’Neil settles down will probably dictate the winning margin, but I don’t see Westfield stopping Cathedral more times than they score on Cathedral. If there was ever a time to break in a sophomore QB, it’s with Cathedral’s offensive line and defense behind him.

22 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Westfield got a lot better last year as the season progressed.

I know they did.

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

It was also the first game of the season. Best of luck. 

Right. And I'd like to think Cathedral got better last year as the season progressed. 

Unless the the soph QB is just extremely overwhelmed (he played a fair amount last year) I don't see Westfield keep it close. Irish D is just too good. 

19 minutes ago, BTF said:

Westfield is better than they were last year and this is going to be a four touchdown game?

Cathedral is better this year than they were last year and beat Westfield by 5 TD's. And it wasn't that close either

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

If Popeye and the Dline can get pressure on an inexperienced QB, it could make for an interesting game.  But that is dependent upon keeping the Irish ground game in check.

2 very good teams!!

Believe O'Neil saw a couple series in this game last year as a freshman. McCahill was out a series with some cramps and O'Neil played the last few series in a blowout win. 

I think Westfield is going to struggle scoring. Going to have to force a ton of turnovers and limit big plays to keep this one close. I have the Irish 38-10.

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Although football teaches a lot about life, I still feel this life lesson talk regarding our economy, equality of outcomes, other people will always have advantages over you, is a bit of a stretch.  No one is talking about equality of outcomes, we are talking about rules in sports.  Let the outcomes fall where they may, but we need to fix our broken system in Indiana High School Football.  What I have taught my kids is that, along with hard work...life isn't fair etc.  is to not sit back and allow injustice....be the person with the courage to affect change.  That is what we are talking about here.  Not just sit back and suck it up because the "rules are the rules"  when they are clearly broken.  I would certainly hope we agree that sports need rules right?  Or do we?  One could conclude from your comments above that the class system itself isn't needed and football in Indiana shouldn't worry about trying to alight the classes as best as possible because...well life isn't fair so why should Indiana football be right?

We are talking about a sport played by children (channeling my inner Muda there lol) and if you would read my comments a little more closely you might see I am making a counter point that continually gets glossed over when P/P guys read my posts.  You may not be taking about advantages, but I am as part of my counterpoint.  

The same thing happens when this is brought up, trust me your response wasn't unique (neigher was my friends from CG) in that multiple folks will go into lengthy diatribes spouting what it takes to be a quality program in our state, or pointing out to me what GS, Jasper, HH, SR does well etc.  That really has little to do with this.  I am pulling these numbers out of my @ss, but you will get the point.   Let's just say that the top third of all football schools in Indiana have all the attributes these lengthy responses mention:  Coaching, work ethic (either community based or common purposed based), feeder systems, pool of athletes (community based or common purpose based), community support, admin support, etc.  This top third has many public and private schools in it.  GS, Memorial, Mater Dei, Jasper, CG....all of these schools have these things, so from now on let's just throw that out the window.  Everyone just STOP talking about those things in these discussions.  These are not the inherent advantages I am calling out.

Here is the part all you P/P guys (or Publics "just need to work harder guys") need to read twice and don't respond to any other part of my post but this:  You are not even the same institution type as a Public School, people pay for a service at your institution and expect a result for their 7k+ fee.  You get a higher quality customer when a premium is paid, particularly vs a free service.  Your enrollment make up is NOT THE SAME...it can't be...it never will be....it is simply an advantage that can't be ignored.  My four kids believe that there are at least 200 kids at GS who just take up space and probably aren't concerned much with extracurriculars or in many cases even too focused on academic endeavors either.  Many are only there because the law says they have to be.  A subset of those might even have behavior or other issues.   Another subset just wants to get that degree, get out and get that job.  Additionally many publics house wonderful programs for the disabled that can affect enrollment as well.

Let's do an experiment.....let's ship those 200 kids to Memorial next week.  How will that affect the hallways do you think?  Will the classroom environment/lesson planning/teacher focus change at all?  How will the day in the life of an administrator change?  And don't look now but Memorials enrollment will come in at 809, probably pushing them into 4A.  How about GS, now that those 200 kids are gone how will things change do you think?  How will life change for the GS administrators?  One change is that the enrollment would now be 503, squarely in 2A and look at that...so similar to the enrollment of Mater Dei 497.   We at GS have known for years we are much more analogous to MD than Memorial athletically.  

Honestly how intelligent people can sit on this forum and say that enrollment ONLY based classification is fair is mind boggling.  The data is clear on the P/P dominance and what I have pointed out above is the reason.  Life might not be fair but a game played by children should be.  About the only thing in common in the top third schools I mention above between Publics and Privates (other than doing football well) is that they both play sports and both have books.  These differences should be accounted for if we are going to play in the same tournament.

 

 

 

Just count your blessings that Chatard is 4A this year.

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I really don't concern myself with the south much. But having Valpo, Merrillville, Lafayette Jeff, Zionsville, and Warsaw as staples in the north vs Snider and Dwenger? Now you have some interesting matchups. Lol, that wasn't too hard. 

Put Carmel South permanently and the problem is solved  

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Count your blessings for having a guy like Eric Moore. Not everyone gets to have a Nick Saben or a Bill Belichick. We'll see what the Center Grove community is made of when Moore retires. Can the Center Grove football program sustain a couple more decades of success after he leaves? There's only a handful of communities who've sustained success for five decades, and Center Grove isn't one of them.................yet. Kudos to them for building what they have over the past two decades. Whether or not it continues remains to be seen.

Laughing at a school  of 1800 because they don't want to play a school of 5000 seems a bit arrogant. 

Name the school of 1800 that plays the school of 5000 (Carmel)?

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Elaborate if you don't mind. Go into a bit more detail

Put Souhthport, CN, and LC in a sectional w Cathedral and/or Roncalli. Tell me how it gets more interesting? Chesterton w Valpo?  I’m waiting.

22 minutes ago, DT said:

You are truly a blockhead.  We are not trying to change 6A.  We are trying to change 5A.  Haven't you figured that out yet?

 

 

 

 

Does 5A need changed? I thought we already changed 5A with the implementation of a 6th class. No?

And to be fair it doesn't sound like you're trying to change 5A, it sounds like you want to change the fortunes of a handful of schools. Big difference. 

28 minutes ago, DT said:

Is Merrillville and Columbus North football more boring to their respective supporters than Cathedral football is to Irish fans?

Shame on you

I don't care about Columbus North or Merrillville one way or the other. But moving either of those schools out of 6A does nothing to change the dynamics of 6A. 

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

Don't have a favorite school and am not fully on board with this proposal.  But as I have said, 6A is pretty damn boring.

Is 6A any less boring if the 8 smallest enrollment teams are moved to 5A?

15 minutes ago, Grover said:

This is why I am convinced the real goal of these proposals is to get the big bullies out of the way of the supporters' favorite schools.  

It's exactly what it is. Just come out and say you want Carmel, Center Grove, Ben Davis, and Warren in their own 4 team division. Don't dance around it and dress it up as a mega-enrollment issue. Half the mega-enrollment schools, when it comes to football at least, aren't worth a salt. 

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

Bishop Luers and Adams Central are pretty good. Maybe put them all in the same class? 

IF you have DOUBLE the enrollment of your counterpart, THEN you have a higher likelihood of having success against that opponent. Why is this so hard? It's why we have classes in the first place. It sounds to me like you want to go back to a three class system or even just one. 

Are you an attorney? You're going to hold on to your stance no matter what math and common sense says. 

You keep citing a scenario that doesn't come into play? Of the 8 the smallest schools in 6A, how many of them consistently have their seasons ended by schools with double their enrollment? Only on rare instances is that the case because the 8 smallest schools in 6A aren't good enough to advance out of their sectional against teams with like-size enrollments to begin with.

When it comes to a team like Columbus North or Warsaw, it's irrelevant that they play in a tournament with Carmel or Ben Davis because Columbus North can't beat CG or Franklin Central and Warsaw can't beat Carroll or Homestead in their respective sectionals. If Columbus North or Warsaw were routinely making it to SS and losing to schools with twice their enrollment then you'd might have a leg to stand on. But there's absolutely no earthly rhyme or reason why a school like Columbus North or Warsaw should be moved down a class because they can't beat times that have similar enrollments to them. 

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

You've finally come around on socioeconomic status' factor in athletic success.  Stop running from it and embrace it.

I haven't.

Last time I checked Noblesville and Lake Central have terrible football teams and HSE and Fishers are pretty decidedly average given their enrollment disparity among some of their peers. They all seem to be missing that one "It" factor though.....hmmm.