Footballking16

1 hour ago, temptation said:

No disrespect intended for Center Grove, but I feel like teams knew the game was going to be a no contest when they lined up across from 2006 Warren/2017 BD (I’m also too young to have seen 1991 BD in person).

CG let teams (LN/Cathedral) hang around last season.  The 2006 Warren/2017 BD squads were coasting after halftime.

The schedule strength argument is a good one though.  CG definitely has the advantage there for the reasons mentioned.

LOL.

That “Cathedral team” finished top 20 in the country by multiple publications. Blew out the 6A runner-up. Blew out the 3A champion. Beat the Ohio big school champion. Beat the Ohio D2 runner-up. And came within about 63 seconds of replacing Center Grove in this conversation.

Last years Cathedral team was better than any team the 06 Warren team by a considerable margin. 

18 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

They cancelled their Roncalli game at the last minute, so I did not get to see them play, but they lost to Bloomington North team that I did see play.  Was not impressed with Bloomington North.  They also got run over by Castle in playoffs.  So one would think the two move ins would have to be really good for them to improve enough to make a long run out of the South.

Their two move-ins have multiple power 5 offers and the senior to be was an Ohio St commit. But agree, two players aren't going to carry you at this classification of football. 

21 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I believe that Warren team had multiple 300 pounders up front. They wasted BD (ranked #2) 76-7 that year. Granted, BD may have been overrated to start the year, but they beat us up so bad in that game, BD had to start its fourth-string QB vs. TH North the next week.

CG had a B10 defensive end in Austin Booker and a DT in Curry who can go wherever he wants. I see Schott is getting B10 offers as well. May not have been as big as Warren but guessing the talent disparity wasn't all that far off.  

15 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

That 06 Warren team was the most physically dominant team I've ever seen.

Hard to argue that, but that CG defense is no joke either. Never gave up more than 14 points and did it playing arguably a harder schedule than the 06 Warren team. I think that CG team belongs in the conversation. 

24 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

My gold standards are '06 Warren Central and '91 Ben Davis. Those two teams were exceptional. I don't know if we've seen the likes of them since or will see them again.

Say what you want about last years CG team but I think they belong in that conversation. Can't really comment on the 91 BD teams as I was in diapers then, but the 2020 CG team is up there with the 06 Warren team.

2020 CG team

Average win 40-7

5 shutouts

Never gave up more than 14 points

2006 Warren

Average win 48-8

5 shutouts

That Warren team definitely had more D1 talent but would argue Center Grove played a much tougher schedule. MIC in 06 still had the Terre Haute teams and North Central wasn't what they were today. It's debatable because that Warren Central team was incredible but that CG team was as well. 

16 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

Castle lost one of their big O-lineman.  Transfered to Gibson Southern to play with the PU recruit they have at QB.

 

What about skill position players? I thought they started a few sophomores last year but my memory isn't the best. 

5A North will go through one of Dwenger, Snider, or Zionsville.

Cathedral heavy favorite to win 5A. Castle played Cathedral somewhat tough last year and seem to remember them starting a ton of young guys. Think they may be the biggest challenger to Cathedral. 

18 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Andrean 459 enrollment

crown point 2855 enrollment 

Andrean usually hangs with 4as but this is a whole new challenge 

Senseless that administrators would allow this game to happen. Think of all the potential danger @temptation🤡🤡

4 hours ago, Bobref said:

This is a common variation of the famous “Oklahoma” Drill popularized by Bud Wilkinson and his Oklahoma teams of the 1950s. I thought it had completely fallen out of use. Not because of head to head contact, because there isn’t any if done properly. But because of the general phasing out of full contact situations in practice. I believe it is actually outlawed in the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, along with the infamous Nutcracker Drill, and my personal favorite, “Bull in the Ring,” which was invented by some twisted sadist.

I think this is more of an angle tackling/pursuit drill, but point well taken, it’s completely unnecessary. Coached should be permanently banned from youth sports for life.

Most will look to the kid getting steamrolled as the shock factor, but the ball carrier is the one at the greatest risk. Runs full speed with his head down and makes direct contact with the crown of his helmet. That was tough to watch.

On 5/11/2021 at 8:03 AM, BTF said:

ESPN has Oklahoma at #1 in their preseason power poll. Not that I have an ounce of respect for ESPN or anything they have to say...........but that's another story. Is the media just bored? Tired of the same ol' same ol'? Are we just playing pretend this 2021 in thinking that anyone other than Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State will be the team to beat? I get it, it's fun to mix things up. Not that Notre Dame will ever be accused of being on a level playing field with those three programs (nor should they) even though they've been on par with Oklahoma over the past decade. Anyway, this isn't about Notre Dame. How good is Oklahoma and are they really good enough to overcome plethora of 5-star athletes that the Big Three programs are using to dominate the college football landscape? 

Oklahoma has their fair share of 5* talent as well and returns pre-season Heisman favorite and potential 2022 #1 draft pick QB Spencer Rattler. Are they the #1 team? Who knows, they haven't played a game yet. But it's not egregious. If I was a betting man I wouldn't take the field betting against Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State to win it all, but Oklahoma will run roughshod through the Big 12 and will be one of 4 teams in the playoff. 

34 minutes ago, temptation said:

First the Cathedral guy wants to chime in on poverty and now he wants to play resident expert on conference affiliation/scheduling?

Man, 2021 is just as wild as 2020 was...

Yawn.

45 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

If Penn and Elkhart stay away from the DAC (not so sure they’re even considering it despite an ongoing a thread) a new conference of:

Penn

Elkhart

Warsaw

Snider

Homestead

Carroll

Dwenger??

makes a ton of sense. Would instantly become the premier big class conference in Northern Indiana.

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Are you under the perception that Penn and Elkhart have no interest in joining The DAC?

In the DAC's current state? Why would they?

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Why would adding 3 state ranked programs to the DAC alienate existing conference members, assuming the goal is to push a DAC school to a  6A state championship?

Because at 12 members, its not feasibly possible for each school to play each other annually. And with too many dead weight programs currently in the DAC, it eliminates potential scheduling flexibility down the road. A conference consisting of the 12 schools you mentioned doesn't prepare the best 6A teams (in the DAC) for a state title run. The caliber of opponent is severely lacking. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that? A super DAC conference hinders schools like Merrillville, Penn, and Elkhart due to lack of weekly competition. 

20 minutes ago, DT said:

Maybe the DAC doesn't want to break up.  Maybe there is loyalty amongst the 8 existing members who have long ties playing meaningful games against each other.  You continue to tilt the conversation*tion towards what might be in Penn's best interest

Penn is a cog in the wheel, not the entire wheel

Our objective is to lift the entire north, not just a few select schools

Sharpening the Saw weekly will help achieve that objective

 

 

Your entire proposal hinges on Penn and Elkhart becoming new members lol. What incentive does Penn and Elkhart have to join the DAC under your new proposal alignment? The ONLY way the DAC comes out better is IF Penn and Elkhart join. You need to get Penn and Elkhart on board. Your proposal doesn't move the needle for Penn or Ellkhart.

If the DAC wants to remain loyal to its 8 existing members, then conference expansion to 12 teams really doesn't make much sense then does it?

14 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I like the idea of the compact 6-team conference that you mentioned and then a "power" sub-schedule.  Preferably those in that power sub-schedule are something that you don't see in the others on a regular basis ... air raid vs. pound-and-ground vs. Swiss Army knife, OH Catholics, etc.  Of course, it can also be a traditional rivalry game too.

Yes. I don't buy for one second that Valpo, Merrillville, Crown Point, and Michigan City would "struggle" fielding opponents with four open weeks. They already schedule two as is in the current DAC landscape. There would be four old DAC opponents who now have open weeks as well and a rotating scheduling of old DAC rivals/opponents would make sense in a worst case scenario. There's 250+ high schools in the Chicagoland area, would not be an extraneous task in the least. There's also a ton of Indy area schools who would be glad to schedule said schools as well. 

13 minutes ago, DT said:

 

Lol.

I already went over this last night. Penn's 2021 schedule includes 6 teams that are better than any DAC team Penn stands to play under your new proposal with the exception of Elkhart and Valpo, who they already play every year anyway. Penn would only be able to keep one of: Cathedral/St. X/Mishawaka/Mishawaka Marian in your DAC expansion. All four of those programs are better than any team in Penn's new proposed DAC East alignment and under your crossover proposal would only play Merrillville every third year. Regardless of what you think, there's no way under any circumstance Penn benefits in your new DAC. None. 

17 minutes ago, DT said:

Penn may have no difficulty finding non con opponents, but the others in your 6 team conference certainly would struggle to fill 4 open dates every year.  

How? If you split up the current DAC there's going to be more open weeks in the new conference alignment. Merrillville would still be able to schedule Michigan City/Lake Central/Portage whomever as they now have open weeks as well. 

13 minutes ago, DT said:

In my view, this expanded DAC, which includes an open week for non con play, will encourage additional investment in member high school football programs, and ultimately increase the level of competiton "within" the conference.  That will eventually parlay into better post season results.  

There's no way you actually think expanding the DAC to more Northern schools better prepares them for better postseason results as was your original intent. Penn losing out on the opportunity to schedule both St. X and Cathedral (or likewise programs) does not better prepare them for a postseason run. 

13 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Earlier in the thread when someone pointed out that adding Penn to your new system doesn't help Penn, you basically said that it wasn't really about helping Penn, but about helping your new conference.  Similarly, adding P/P wouldn't be about helping the P/P, it would be about adding to the competition.  I'm just in line with what you were saying earlier.  Of course, if you don't want to talk about competition ...

And it turns out that it is really about helping Penn (along with the rest of the 5A and 6A Northern Schools) in a quest for a state title. If we're talking about re-aligning conferences to the point it prepares them accordingly for a title run, conference expansion under this proposal makes very little sense.

Take Merrillville, Valpo, Crown Point, and Michigan City, form a new six team new conference with Penn and Elkhart where you're playing five quality conference opponents in succession and it leaves you 4 open weeks. There's an open week or two to still schedule former DAC rivalries and then two to three open weeks to schedule regional powers from the Indy/Chicago/NW OH/Cincy area. 

14 minutes ago, DT said:

As I mentioned previously, PPs dont need any more help.  The system already is heavily tilted in their favor.  My focus is on the public schools.  You are welcome to focus on whatever and whomever you choose.  Start another thread if you feel its necesary and the PPs  might need your assistance.

You still haven't answered how condensing schedules and subsequently limiting scheduling opportunities better prepares 5A and 6A Northern teams in a state title pursuit? Merrillville, Valpo, Penn, etc are better off playing powerhouse Chicago schools/Indy powers than they are fellow DAC opponents. Cathedral, Naperville Central, Homewood-Flossmoor are much more similar to the Carmel's, Warren's, Center Grove's of the world than they are Chesterton, Portage, La Porte. 

14 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Imagine this being your arguement against Chesterton 😂 God forbid any team 2A-6A lose to arguably the best pound for pound program in the entire STATE.

That "1A" school being Pioneer, a program that has gone 220-20 over the last 20 years with 2 State Championships, 4 Semi-State Championships, 7 Regional Championships, and 11 Sectional Championships during those 20 years.

Yeah... to hell with Chesterton! There's no chance for them to become a legitimate threat in 6A North 😂😂😂

That was no slight at Pioneer. But if you want to be in the conversation as a serious contender for a 6A title as DT put it, you need to beat schools with 250 students. Period. 

Chesterton hasn't won a sectional in 25+ years. They don't belong in the conversation as a legitimate threat in the North. Sorry. 

On 5/4/2021 at 7:03 PM, Coach Nowlin said:

nice:   was he not getting enough playing time?  or was the pull to play with his cousin too much?   seemed like a odd transfer but truly been out of the college football loop for months now 

He didn’t play a down last year. Highly rated recruit with some good offers out of HS, but no real way to say what impact he may have had as he literally never saw the field.

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Elkhart is rising.  Lots of talent.  They arew on par with Penn and will likely pass the kingsmen over the next few years

Crown Point is all in with their new staff 

Morton could be very dangerous post consolidation

Chesterton is closing in on Valpo

Remember LaPorte?

 

I said there was hope for Elkhart.

Crown Point and Morton need to accomplish something before before joining the discussion. They aren’t in it right now.

Didn’t Chesterton just lose to a 1A school?

La Porte has a decent football program, but not one that’s in perennial title discussion.

Valpo, Merrillville, Snider, Penn, and Homestead are the teams that belong in perennial title discussion and there’s a pretty significant gap between them and the Indy schools. 

2 minutes ago, DT said:

You're entitled to your opinion

We have 10 schools in the far north that should be in the 5a-6a past season conversation ;

MV

VA

CP

MC

Penn

ELK

Homestead

Carroll

Warsaw

Snider

It's about all of them, not just Penn.  What might be good for Penn may not be advantageous for the others

Remember the primary goal

The more schools we have in the chase, the better our chances

 

 

 

Realistically you have 4, maybe 5 on a semi-regular basis: Merrillville, Snider, Valpo, Penn, and Homestead, and you didn’t include Dwenger who is 5A due to the SF. Elkhart may get to that point but none of the other schools belong in that regular conversation.

What gives those schools a better chance of making a deep post season run? Condensing their schedules and auto-locking them into 8-9 game conference slates or perhaps some flexibility to schedule Indy or out of state powers? You tell me? 

1 minute ago, DT said:

We understand your point.  The objective here is to bring a 6A state title to Northern Indiana.  That includes The Region, South Bend and Fort Wayne.  Any recommendations we make are made towards achieving that goal

 

Conference contraction is the only way that is going to happen. Too many 6A teams landlocked in dead weight conferences with little flexibility and in some cases no flexibility (SAC) in scheduling premier programs from the Midwest.

It would make sense for the Big 4 SAC schools opting out (Dwenger, Snider, Homestead, Carroll) and joining up with Elkhart/Penn or a combination of Merrillville, Valpo, Michigan City joining up with Elkhart/Penn. A team 12 super conference of not so super teams doesn’t help anything.