Footballking16

Just now, CaptainHook said:

Except I can name 5 NP kids that went thru the NP feeder program only to go to Cathedral.

Enrollment should not be a factor for classifying private schools. This is why there is success factor and probably why someday there will be a multiplier.

 

 

And I can name 20 kids who went through the CYO feeder system, only to play at their public high school. It’s a two-way street. 

There will NEVER be a multiplier in the IHSAA (we can’t even seed the sectionals) and the success factor isn’t limited to P/P’s. You of all people again should know that. 

1 minute ago, CaptainHook said:

You keep talking about one game.  Why do we have the Tournament Success Factor?  If enrollment is what everything should be based on?  Privates have an advantage in building their sports programs.  Just look around the last 25 years.  Enrollment has nothing to do with it.

Exactly.
 

It has nothing to do with enrollment and everything to do with building and maintaining a successful program, starting with the feeder systems. As a fan of New Pal, you of all people should know this.

1 minute ago, CaptainHook said:

C'mon man.  This is the very thinking that led to the Tournament Success Factor.  Privates operate under different rules.  If you can't acknowledge that, I'm done here.

I don’t have a problem with the success factor. But operates under a different set of rules? Are you telling me P/P’s turn down as many kids as they accept? Hence the reason for a 2.0 multiplier? Roncalli operates under such a different set of rules they only have 1200 kids and not 2400 kids?

Genuinely trying to see your point of view. Mount Vernon didn’t lose to Roncalli last night because of who Roncalli accepts and doesn’t accept. I’ll tell you that much right now. Silly to suggest otherwise.

Just now, DT said:

The Multiplier exists in many other states in many different forms.  I have seen it range from 1.2 all the way up to 1.8.  2.0 is not the outlandish outlier you might think it is given precedence.  

COVID is a game changer.  Its a once in a lifetime event that has changed everything, including the balance that previously existed in our game of high school football.  

The impact on wealthy and urban communities has been significant, but not devastating like it has been on small towns and rural communities.  Many are being hallowed out, losing jobs and business at a much higher rate than are the wealthier suburban communities.  This reality will ultimately reach down to high school extra curricular activities, where rural and lower socio economic communities will see both reduced participation and fewer options.  

The powers that be will recognize this and do what they can to try and maintain some semblance of balance on the playing fields.  The Multiplier is the natural successor to the SF.  Its just the next step in the process of maintaining competitive balance.

You do realize that there are many p/p’s in inner-cities and blue collar parts of town who are feeling the same effects of their public counterparts? Cathedral, Roncalli, and Chatard make up a fraction of the Indiana P/P’s and have all been dominant football programs well before the arrival of COVID. Don’t be so dense.

This hegemony talk is 5-6 years in the making, have to realize that. Cathedral is going for its first state title in 6 years and you better believe the drubbings Cathedral took at the hands of public’s 2 of the last 3 years were conveniently forgotten.

6 minutes ago, DT said:

So if the IHSAA adopts the 2.0 Multiplier and Cathedral and Roncalli both are bumped to 6A, they will accept their new status and play on?

Has there once ever been serious talks of a multiplier passing legislation, let alone a multiplier that artificially doubles a schools enrollment?

To answer your question, yes Cathedral and Roncalli would accept as they are one of the few schools who could survive it. But the IHSAA would get sued to the high heavens by everybody else that in turn makes a multiplier nothing but a fantasy.

5 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

 

That's not what I'm saying at all.  But enrollment numbers mean nothing when classifying a private school

How many people do you think Roncalli is turning down a year? Serious question.

With as much negative attention as Roncalli has gotten not just in the local, but national media the last year and a half, they aren’t in any position to turn somebody down.

Isn’t MV’s starting QB or WR from Chicago? Who transferred in this year? MV didn’t have the option to decline his enrollment? It’s a two way street.

12 minutes ago, DT said:

Is it your understanding that there has never been any internal discussion or disagreement relative to the idea of Cathedral playing in 6A?  Do you have first hand knowledge of this?

No internal rift.

Cathedral’s already played a two year cycle of 6A football. Cathedral is ALWAYS going to play where the IHSAA mandates. Simply as that. Whether it be 5A or 6A due to the success factor or back to their original enrollment class in 4A, Cathedral is going to play where the IHSAA slots them to play and there really isn’t any more that needs to be discussed.

1 minute ago, CaptainHook said:

Mt. Vernon cannot control or limit the size/make-up of their student population as a public school.

And you’re delusional if you think Roncalli is somehow calling their enrollment to remain in 4A.

4 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

There you go,  leaning on the crutch of enrollment when you feel it's to your argumentative advantage.   Again, fair classifications should be about program, not enrollment.

 

It’s the only fair and logical way to classify teams. If your team has enough success in its enrollment-based classification, you move up. It’s not really a hard concept.

Most people would agree that there is a six year old or two good enough to compete and occasional beat a 10 year old in a game of basketball. Most people would also agree that 10 year olds playing other 10 year olds, makes a lot more common sense than vice versa. On the rare occasion the 6 year old is good enough, he plays up (success factor).

5 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

I watched this game.  Total domination on the LOS by Roncalli.  MV was simply overmatched.  I had a feeling that this would happen.  The Marauders turn the ball over a lot.  They have a lot of snap issues.  And quite honestly, they hadn't played a really good team all season.  

 

Not to defend DT, but you cannot use private school enrollment numbers to compare them to public schools.  That's been the issue for a long time.

You think Mt. Vernon’s socioeconomic demographics are that much, if any, different than Roncalli? 

2 minutes ago, DT said:

Its clear from past reporting that thererhave been some internal struggles at Cathedral relative to the 6A issue.  I believe that if I recall correctly, former Coach Streiff wanted to move up to 6A, while members of the administative team were against the idea.  I believe this caused friction within the athletic department and contributed to Streiffs decision to walk awy from CHS.  Therer are many CHS  insiders here who can comment in more detail.  

Cathedral is stronger now that it was in the Streiff years.

The admin may be more open to the concept now than they were in the past.

 

Streiff didn’t walk away from anything. He’s the current AD at Cathedral.

1 minute ago, DT said:

I see it differently.,  The 2.0 Multiplier doubles their enrollment and gives their kids the opportunity to play post season football at the highest level in the state.

Your looking at it from a negative point of view.  I see it as a positive and a great opportunity.  

 

What’s positive about telling a school of 1200 kids that they have to play in a tournament with schools that have 3000-5000 kids?

1 minute ago, DT said:

I didint see the game, but clearly Whitelands inability to throw the ball kiiled any chances for a comeback.  Whiteland is in a small group of schools that can claim that they are the best 5A public school in the state, along with DC, ZV and VALPO.  Cathedrals walkover in this contest clearly proves the point that the school is not giving its kids the opportunity to play at the highest level in state.  

Clearly wasn’t an issue for the last three public schools that knocked Cathedral out of the tournament.

Just now, DT said:

The 2.0 Multiplier Reclasses Roncalli's enrollment as 6A.  Nobody is being forced to do anythimg.  Its the Multiplier that moves them up.

Huh? The multiplier doubles their enrollment forcing them to play two classes up. What are you talking about?

4 minutes ago, DT said:

Sagarin has Roncalli as the 10th best team in the state, with only six 6A programs ahead of them.  Id say thats pretty high level 6A.   They will probably finish the season in the top 5, maybe even Top 3.  

Being able to “compete” against a 6A team on any given night is entirely different than playing 6A competition night in and night out for possibly 15 weeks. There’s a ton of non-6A schools who could “compete” with any given 6A school on any given night, doesn’t mean they should voluntarily or be forced to play 2 classes up. Hell I’d bet Mt. Vernon could “compete” with 75% of 6A on any given night (and beat a lot of them) and I’m sure you wouldn’t devote a thread to it.

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Roncalli, with the highest PP enrollment in the state at nearly 1200 students, moves up to 6A in my 2.0 Multiplier Proposal

The Rebels are sure playing like a high level 6A program on the field, as evidenced by their convincing win over undefeated Mt Vernon.

 

 

Here we go....

Roncalli is a great football program. Always has been, always will be. But a high level 6A program? C’mon.

11 minutes ago, DT said:

Cathedral is a 6A program.  Hopefully Peebles will recognize that and push his admin to petition the IHSAA for a permanent promotion to the top classification.  

That was quick. Any thoughts on the game?

10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Don’t forget his comments about Larry Bird either.

That being said, I think he’s criminally underrated in regards to the all-time greats. Most consider him a top 25-30 player. I think he’s in the 10-15 range. Arguably one of the best pure PG’s of all-time behind Magic and just a tremendous leader. He had a relatively short career derailed by injuries and only played 13 seasons retiring in his early 30’s. Pound for pound, Zeke is one of the most fearless players of all-time.

Don’t forget his comments about Larry Bird either.

4 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

I assume you are sarcastic.

Mocking DT.

1 hour ago, cbc34 said:

Can you explain? Seems Whiteland had success running the ball against some good teams this year. What does Cathedral do differently? Or is it simply a “Jimmy’s and Joes” thing?

Obviously Cathedral is more talented than Whiteland, but Cathedral’s 3-3 stack is all gap assignment football and just begs for teams to run east-west. If you’re going to challenge Cathedral, you have to run right at them, not around them.

3 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

This sure didn’t age well...

He’ll back with something next week. Always does.

Dwenger self-destructing. Strip sack as they were trying to take the lead.

Terrible match-up for Whiteland. One dimensional with no vertical passing game is a recipe for disaster. Fly sweep offense plays right into Cathedral’s defensive scheme.

14 hours ago, DT said:

I'm going with Whiteland 38-35 in the upset of the year

 

Cathedral giving up 38 would honestly be a bigger shock than them losing.