Footballking16

10 minutes ago, Spitting Llamas said:

I'm not sure why what we are currently using doesn't work. If a team is successful and earns enough points they "bump up". If they continue to be successful they continue to move up the ladder. Maybe we change the points system or what it takes to "bump up", but just moving all private schools up based on twice their enrollment regardless of success seems ignorant. There is no reason a school of any size should be penalized and placed in a class well above their enrollment when they might have an absolutely horrible athletic program. 

Indiana classed all sports many years ago to give more kids a chance to be successful. Now it appears some don't feel the right people are benefitting from classification.

Stop making sense, please and thanks. 

10 minutes ago, DT said:

Interesting that you rush to the defense of the two weakest PPs in the state.

You dont seem to be too concerned about the plight of Perry Meridian in 6A.  Of course, that is fertile PP recruiting ground

There's three P/P's that have dominated their respective enrollment classes in the last decade; Cathedral, Chatard, LCC. Telling Noll and Park Tudor they have to play schools twice their enrollment because Cathedral and Chatard punch above their weight doesn't make any sense. That's why the success factor was implemented. It punishes the schools that are actually successful not just by association. 

10 minutes ago, DT said:

Its not.  Its used in many states.  

How is having Park Tudor and Bishop Noll playing 2 and 3 classes up achieving competitive balance? It doesn't. We have the success factor already and it's more than suffice. 

9 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

And here we go with the "well p/p school X has a moribund football program, why should they get bumped up to class Y?" argument. 

If you're using a multiplier as the basis for competitive balance, how is doubling the enrollment of "p/p school x with a moribund football program" achieving that? It doesn't, which is why a multiplier is the single dumbest argument for achieving competitive balance. 

15 minutes ago, BTF said:

Snider goes down to 5a with an uptick in talent............what a shame. 

Let's negotiate and arrive at 1.75.

A multiplier is redundant if you ask me. Either keep the success factor or designate an automatic 1 class bump for all P/P's and be done with it. 

A 2.0 multiplier doesn't even get Chatard 2 classes up and you can be damn sure Chatard is one of two schools that a multiplier is supposed to penalize. 

10 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

Not disagreeing with the premise of your argument, but I believe Cathedral is guaranteed 5A the next two years after this season regardless. This is year two of the "cycle", and even with a state championship this year, they will not have accumulated enough points to move up to 6A next year.  They would have to win state next year and then win at least regionals in 2022 to bump up to 6A.

Would be curious if anyone know the answer to this?  If a school shares DT's competitive ambitions and wishes to play up in class, would the IHSAA even allow that?

Yes. Mishawaka did that for a few years. Played in 5A as a 4A when the IHSAA initially went to 6 classes. Could be argued that 4A was stronger than 5A and that was a primary reason. 

11 minutes ago, WilELee said:

What is the desired objective that the success factor doesn't achieve?

Should we just cap the number of PP's that can be at LOS any given year? 

Success Factor achieves it's primary purpose, "penalize" the successful teams. 

DT speaks in absolutes about achieving competitive balance, how is Park Tudor or Bishop Noll playing 2-3 classes up achieving competitive balance?

23 minutes ago, DT said:

1.5 does not achieve the desired objective.  2.0 does.  Id rather see the IHSAA go a little too far than not far enough with this initiative.  If it becomes too much of a burden for the PPs , they can challenge and push for a rollback.

Id like to see the arguments in this thread made by any PP against new class assignement based on The 2.0 Multiplier.  Show us where it creates a hardship.  Take all factors into consideration.  Lets debate it openly and honestly.  

so Guerin and Brebuef should be in 5A but not Chatard? How does that make any sense? The success factor works just fine. Good teams will bump up, others won't. 

Park Tudor and Bishop Noll playing in the 4A state tournament just because Chatard and Cathedral punch above their weight may be your worst take yet. 

There's three schools on that list who have dominated their enrollment class the last decade or so; Cathedral, Chatard, and LCC with LCC coming back down to Earth. Take out Chatard and Cathedral, and every one of those P/P's are cyclical just like any other public school.  

20 minutes ago, DT said:

I didnt say Cathedral is the same as IMG.  I said Cathedral is the IMG of Indiana.  Like IMG, Cathedral has a football program that is different in terms of makeup relative to all the other schools in the state, both public and PP.

Both schools are football magnets.

That is essentially their mutual bond.

What do you mean football magnets?

The only common bond Cathedral and IMG share is the fact they are both technically considered high schools and that is about it. And this doesn't start and stop with football, but IMG's sole person is to offer an education to athletes looking to enhance their athletic ability. It's literally in their mission statement. You don't go to IMG unless you have legitimate professional aspirations in your desired sport. 

58 minutes ago, DT said:

There is a real dichotomy that exists relative to the Cathedral way of thinking.  They insist on loading up their regular season schedule with a murderers row of quality opponents, and yet they will allow themselves on the other hand to play in a Class 4A state tournament.

Cathedral hasn't played in a 4A tournament in almost a decade. Cathedral loads up on its regular season schedule due to the terrible postseason format the IHSAA has regulated.

With no penalty or reward for regular season play, why wouldn't you do anything but play the best competition that gets you ready for the postseason? Is taking advantage of a poor system the fault of Cathedral?

54 minutes ago, DT said:

I believe somebody said previously in this thread that this is possibly Cathedrals best ever team.

IMG wasnt built overnite.  Neither were the 2020 Cathedral Fighting Irish.

IMG literally has kids from all over the country and Canada and has 4 and 5* players at every position. To my knowledge there isn't a single kid on Cathedral, who to date has a Power 5 offer. Calling Cathedral a traveling all star team and comparing them to IMG is over the top, even for you. 

Yes, Cathedral is having an exceptionally strong year a big reason being a phenomenal junior class, but Cathedral's last 3 tournaments have ended in this fashion: 

Regional New Pal 35-10 (4a school by enrollment)

Sectional Final Decatur 21-14

Semi-State Columbus East 42-13 

Cathedral hasn't won a state title since 2014. I don't disagree for a second that Cathedral couldn't compete in 6A year in and year out. But classification isn't built on could and couldn't compete. 

23 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Will Cathedral ever consider opting to move up and remain in 6A? Honest question. Not trying to troll. I would think a rematch with Center Grove would be more rewarding than picking up easy hardware in 5A. 

No and they shouldn't have too. No school should voluntarily play up 2 classes especially when opposing schools have 3-4x their enrollment. 

32 minutes ago, DT said:

That sounds very disrespectful to Whiteland who is in the midst of the most successful season in school history.  They would be wise to post the comments of yourself and a few of your cohorts in the lockerroom for additional motivation.  There is nothing more motivating for a gritty community like Whiteland than the knowledge that your snooty rich competitor is looking down his nose at you before a big game.  

It is what it is.

Cathedral in their own right is in the midst of arguably their greatest season and have been steamrolling teams. No real disrespect to Whiteland but for Cathedral to lose this game it would take colossal failure on several fronts. Cathedral, along with Center Grove, are simply on different planets than the rest of teams this year. 

I'm predicting a 48-7 win for the Irish.  

13 hours ago, DT said:

Whiteland is one of the most disrespected and overlooked programs in the state.  They play in the shadow of CG and schools like DC, Mooresville and Plainfield get more pub that the Warriors.  New Pals emergence has further pushed Whiteland off the map.  This team is on a roll and has done so very quietly this year.  I could see Cathedral looking past them due to prior year success in head to head matchups.

We just saw IU beat Michigan for the first time in 33 years yesterday.  This is not a normal year, and abnormal things will continue to happen until the season is over.  

No disrespect to Whiteland but this will be a 2-3 score game 6-7 minutes into the game. Cathedral will then go on cruise control until the mercy rule sets in sometime early in the 3rd Q and the 2's and whoever else that is left on the dress will play out the remaining minutes. 

14 hours ago, Bobref said:

Well, that was fun. I am most encouraged by the fact that Clemson’s 5 star freshman threw for over 400 yds. ... and the Irish still won. I hope that means that - if we take care of business between now and then - we can absorb a big game by Trevor Lawrence in the ACC Championship and still win. Because you know he is going to bring it.

Lawrence’s on-field presence probably alters ND’s game plan to a degree. From the first snap, ND was committed to stacking the box and shutting down Etienne while forcing the freshman to beat them over the top. And while he threw for a ton of yards, I’m guessing ND isn’t going to do that with Lawrence in the game.

Still, a hell of a win for the Irish. Gutsy performance till the very end.

7 minutes ago, DT said:

If you like 7 on 7 Texas style no defense football, OU is your team

I personally enjoy seeing guys like Kingsbury and Riley and Leach get their butts kicked when they run up against a physically superior team.  They have no answer than to keep throwing the ball and try to score as many points as possible.  Im glad we dont have to watch that crap every week in the Big Ten.  

The Big Ten just needs to worry about getting a team in the playoffs. And outside the inaugural year in which Ohio State won it all, it’s not like the B10 has fared any better.  
 

Michigan State was blanked in 2016.

Ohio State was blanked in 2017.

Big Ten didn’t have a team in 18 or 19.

And Ohio State choked last year.

3 minutes ago, DT said:

Nebraska used to do that too until they joined the Big Ten.  Your comment on OUs success speaks more to the poor overall level of their competition than it does about their program excellence.

 

Nebraska had been fading since the late 90s. Eric Crouch and Co was their last good team and they got smoked in the 2000 national title game. Oklahoma is in the next tier of teams behind Clemson/Alabama/OSU. It’s those three and everybody else. Oklahoma I’m my opinion is the best of the rest.

38 minutes ago, DT said:

OU is not in the same class as AL/CLEM/OSU/GA and LSU last year.  They have been exposed as the tallest midget in the Big 12 with their poor playoff performances.  They will never be a complete team until they become dominant on the defensive side of the ball.  At times, they are outright awful on defense.  That cannot be overlooked, and is a clear indictment of Lincoln Riley's offense always first philosophy.

I’m not talking about individual seasons. I’m talking about program status. To say Oklahoma isn’t an elite program is preposterous. They’ve consistently been one of the best programs in the country the last 15-20 years. They’ve won 10+ games 17 times since the start of the century. By far and away tops in the country in that regard. 

8 minutes ago, DT said:

Oklahoma is not elite this season.  Nowhere near it.

Elite takes on more than year ya know? The last 10-15 years without a doubt elite.

9 minutes ago, DT said:

I think you also have to look at pre covid and post covid impact and status of conference situations.

The SEC and the ACC took aggressive steps forward to minimize disruption to their seasons.  That will pay off for both in the long run.

The Big Ten got back into business just in time.  It seems as if we are rolling inot mid season after just 2 weeks of Big Ten play.

The PAC 12 hasnt even started.  They are in trouble and playing catch up in every phase, including recruiting.  This makes coaching jobs there less appealing to the top candidates.

The Big 12 is a hot mess.  There are no great or elite teams in the conference.  The leagues reputation for  all offense and no defense has been damaging to its reputation, and  has hurt its post season chances for inclusion into the playoffs.  Elite Coaches have taken note of this and are likely to avoid overtures should they come 

?

Oklahoma is a perennial CFB participator and would be the second best team in the B10 behind Ohio State, no questions asked. Saying Oklahoma isn't great or elite is flat out preposterous. Texas has the most resources out of any athletic department in the country and COVID isn't changing that. 

10 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Thanks! He still took Florida when given the chance at ND. It's an odd fit in my opinion. Would he really want to move to South Bend at this point in his life? Would the highbrows in ND's Alumni base want a coach that brings baggage with him? 

I've heard from both Martin brothers, whom I grew up with, that Notre Dame wouldn't touch Urban with a 10 foot pole. Wayyyy too much baggage.

10 minutes ago, DT said:

I disagree for two reasons

1. We have no idea if Meyer has any interest in eith TX or SC.  I believe Meyer was told the SC job was his last year if he wanted it.   I believe he wasn't ready and wanted to stay in TV.   There is no prior connection between Meyer and TX other than Herman

 

2. I have given my reasons for why TX and SC are not the jobs they used to be   neither fits Meyers personal style.   He is basically a Midwest guy.   Osu.  Nd.  Um. 

 

Texas and USC aren't as good as they used to be (currently) because their respective athletic departments keep making bad hire after bad hire compounding the issue. But the USC and Texas job in of itself are top 5 jobs in college football along with OSU, Oklahoma, and LSU. There was a 10-15 year period from the Mid-90's up until Alabama hired Saban where the Crimson Tide sunk into heavy mediocrity due to several consecutive bad hires. Saban righted that ship overnight. The right person at Texas and/or USC has either program right in the thick of things almost overnight. 

21 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

I hear this quite often, but when has Meyer actually been quoted as saying it? Was it back when he was an Assistant at ND? 

You continue to ignore Footballking's point. Texas and USC would easily have Top 10, more than likely, Top 5 recruiting classes if Meyer were their coach. Both schools are wallowing due to bad coaching hires and still pulling in respectiable classes. Texas was #8 last year in 247 and USC is currently #7 with quite a few recruits out of Georgia/Florida. Texas is the wealthiest Athletic Dept in the Country and USC is LA's real "Pro" Team. They have an alumni base that cares about football and a rabid subway-alum following. You're really reaching DT if you don't think either of those programs are sleeping giants that Meyer would turn into regular CFP contenders. He isn't going to need years to fix recruiting pipelines. He's Urban Meyer. He calls and players listen. I think you're also underestimating the desire for a lot of recruits to reach the NFL. A lot of offensive skilled players are going to be more worried about Meyer developing them into an NFL draft pick as opposed to playing in the SEC, Big Ten, etc.

 

 

This ^^^

DT continually fails to see or completely ignores the recruiting pipeline into USC and Texas has been halted due to coaching athletic department incompetence. 

It's not like Texas and and Southern California stopped playing high school football, recruits just stopped going to those schools because of the current coaching climates. Urban Meyer fixes that instantly and then some. It's easier to recruit at Texas and USC than it is at Michigan naturally, hire one of the best college football coaches of all-time and it becomes cake. 

12 minutes ago, DT said:

Harbaugh is 47-18 at UM, 72.3 winning percentage.  That would be off the charts good anywhere else but at Michigan.  He has not won the big games, which is why we are having the discussion.  But Michigan is not far from being a Top 10 team.  We both know that.  

If Day were to go to the NFL, OSU would probably bring in Fickell now that he has successful D1 HC experience.  

Harbaugh is:

0-5 against Ohio State

3-3 against Michigan State

3-2 against Penn State

1-4 in bowl games

Ohio State is just a small part of Harbaugh's problem

13 minutes ago, DT said:

Michigan is relevent and in the conversation every year.  Its due to the sheer strength and breadth of the brand.  Michigans biggest problem has been that it has run into the OSU juggernaut for nearly trwo decades now.  Harbaugh has had much more success than Hoke or Rich Rod , but Brutus Buckeye has become a bully and manhandled all comers.  Michigan has fans and supporters all over the country.  Texas support is based in Texas.  

Michigan can't even beat Michigan State with any kind of regularity, Harbaugh included. What are you talking about?

Only once has Michigan finished better than 3rd in their own division since Harbaugh has taken over. Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State have all won the B10 in said time frame. It's still a big job considering their namesake and tradition, but it's not the ticking timebomb that is USC and Texas.