2024 6A Who can win it all?

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Break through?  They have as many titles as WC and Carmel combined since the inception of 6A.  And they lost 2 title games to Carmel during this period by a total of 6 points.  They also have more titles than BD over this period.

Its not about bragging about CG, its simply an example that one doesn't have to be in the top 3 for enrollment be a state elite.

I concede. The Indy guys have spoken. Carmel, Warren Central, and Ben Davis have 28 titles because the "do things better", lol. 

Moving on. 

[BTF]

One last thing: Footballking & Bash. You guys are smart. You both understand football. Two of the smarter posters on this forum. The fact that you don't comprehend what I'm saying is massively bizarre. Good luck to your teams this year. 

Moving on for real now. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

We still doing this?  
 

How’s everyone see the HCC/MIC shaking out?

My thoughts:

HCC:

Tier 1:  Brownsburg, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Westfield 

Tier 2:  Avon, Franklin Central, Noblesville. Zionsville

MIC:  

Tier 1:  Ben Davis, Center Grove, Warren Central

Tier 2:  Carmel, Lawrence North

Tier 3:  Lawrence Central

Tier 4:  North Central, Pike

So basically no surprises this year?

Edited July 9, 2024 by BTF

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

One last thing: Footballking & Bash. You guys are smart. You both understand football. Two of the smarter posters on this forum. The fact that you don't comprehend what I'm saying is massively bizarre. Good luck to your teams this year. 

Moving on for real now. 

So basically no surprises this year?

I mean, I think that teams like Avon, LC and FC will be much improved but the win/loss record simply won’t be all that impressive.

Stated I think LN is about as close as I will come to picking a surprise/sleeper.

I am really intrigued by the HCC this year.  By no means has Brownsburg’s window closed but they’ve had their chance and failed repeatedly in the postseason.  I’m ready to give someone else a chance.

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

I mean, I think that teams like Avon, LC and FC will be much improved but the win/loss record simply won’t be all that impressive.

Stated I think LN is about as close as I will come to picking a surprise/sleeper.

I am really intrigued by the HCC this year.  By no means has Brownsburg’s window closed but they’ve had their chance and failed repeatedly in the postseason.  I’m ready to give someone else a chance.

Who has the best chance of breaking through in the next couple of years........Fishers, HSE, or Westfield?

[psaboy]

6 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Saban paying those transfers thousands of Benjamin’s doesn’t hurt either….

4 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Per 247 Sports, Penn hasn't had a scholarship football player attend a D1 school since 2018 when they sent Paul Moala to Notre Dame (ended up at FCS Idaho) and Anthony Torres to Western Michigan. Clearly enrollment isn't the issue considering Penn is the 6th largest high school in the state. 

Maybe it is the free lunch situation??

Edited July 9, 2024 by psaboy

[temptation]

22 minutes ago, BTF said:

Who has the best chance of breaking through in the next couple of years........Fishers, HSE, or Westfield?

Westfield sorta already has.

It’s time for Fishers/HSE.  They have D1 talent.

4 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Maybe it is the free lunch situation??

Nah, it’s Penn being stuck in the past and a lack of regular season competition along with poor youth leagues.

That’s what the Penn posters on here have implied anyway.

The Kingsmen are pretty damn good in most country club sports.

Edited July 9, 2024 by temptation

[psaboy]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

I'm referencing the largest football division since 1978. From 1978-1982, it was 3A. From 1983-1984 is was 4A. From 1985-2012 it was 5A.  

I knew what you were talking about, it is hard for some to connect the dots sometimes

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I knew what you were talking about, it is hard for some to connect the dots sometimes

True story. 

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

Westfield sorta already has.

It’s time for Fishers/HSE.  They have D1 talent.

The problem in my opinion is twofold. 

1.   Center Grove - Eric Moore's passion is second to none.

2.  One of these schools will always be in an "up" year..........BD, WC, or Carmel. 

Every program in the state faces these two road blocks. Rarely can a program put together a team better than all three of the "Big 3" in the same season. Then you have to be better than Center Grove to boot. 

[temptation]

44 minutes ago, BTF said:

I concede. The Indy guys have spoken. Carmel, Warren Central, and Ben Davis have 28 titles because the "do things better", lol. 

Moving on. 

1.  Indy schools are never wide eyed when the tournament starts because they are tested more so than any other geographical area of the state.

2.  For the most part, Indy schools boast an enrollment advantage with a few exceptions.

3.  Coaches at Indy schools have been hired as coaches first and teachers second for decades.  Their job is to win football games so their building schedule is laughable in most cases.  They eat, breathe, and sleep football for 8+ hours per day.  Administrators don’t even hide it anymore.

4.  Indy is the population hub of the state which is why the suburban schools have also joined the conversation and in some instances surpassed the Marion County schools.

 

Just now, BTF said:

The problem in my opinion is twofold. 

1.   Center Grove - Eric Moore's passion is second to none.

2.  One of these schools will always be in an "up" year..........BD, WC, or Carmel. 

Every program in the state faces these two road blocks. Rarely can a program put together a team better than all three of the "Big 3" in the same season. Then you have to be better than Center Grove to boot. 

“Passion?”  While I am sure that may be accurate, I’d put that well down the list of Moore’s best attributes.  Every football coach has “passion” right?  I mean, you are talking 60+ hour work weeks away from your family in many instances so you’d better be passionate about it.

If I am wrong about Moore, let me know @Bash Riprock.

[psaboy]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

Westfield sorta already has.

It’s time for Fishers/HSE.  They have D1 talent.

Nah, it’s Penn being stuck in the past and a lack of regular season competition along with poor youth leagues.

That’s what the Penn posters on here have implied anyway.

The Kingsmen are pretty damn good in most country club sports.

I can buy into the Penn youth leagues not being good or having poor competition outside their area. Not sure about regular season opponents, they have a weak conference, but have normally played 2-3 out of conference higher caliber teams. Why were they so dominate in the 90's/early 00's, but not know. Maybe coaching and no more Geezer?? Coaching, coaching and coaching!!!! 

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

1.  Indy schools are never wide eyed when the tournament starts because they are tested more so than any other geographical area of the state.

2.  For the most part, Indy schools boast an enrollment advantage with a few exceptions.

3.  Coaches at Indy schools have been hired as coaches first and teachers second for decades.  Their job is to win football games so their building schedule is laughable in most cases.  They eat, breathe, and sleep football for 8+ hours per day.  Administrators don’t even hide it anymore.

4.  Indy is the population hub of the state which is why the suburban schools have also joined the conversation and in some instances surpassed the Marion County schools.

 

Agree with all four. Best post in this thread. Thanks for sharing that. 

[BTF]

1 minute ago, psaboy said:

I can buy into the Penn youth leagues not being good or having poor competition outside their area. Not sure about regular season opponents, they have a weak conference, but have normally played 2-3 out of conference higher caliber teams. Why were they so dominate in the 90's/early 00's, but not know. Maybe coaching and no more Geezer?? Coaching, coaching and coaching!!!! 

1.   Geesman first and foremost. 

2.  When Penn was winning, all they had to do was beat Snider. Then they had to be better than the winner of Carmel, BD, and WC. Now there's 15 teams that can beat you on any given night. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

1.   Geesman first and foremost. 

2.  When Penn was winning, all they had to do was beat Snider. Then they had to be better than the winner of Carmel, BD, and WC. Now there's 15 teams that can beat you on any given night. 

There’s 15 teams that can beat PENN on a given night, let’s be clear.

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

There’s 15 teams that can beat PENN on a given night, let’s be clear.

Lol, that's fair. 

But...............I still think if the best team goes into a game half asleep, there are 15 teams waiting to take you out. 

[psaboy]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

There’s 15 teams that can beat PENN on a given night, let’s be clear.

I agree. Just was reminiscing on what has gone wrong with the once mighty Kingsmen, can they ever recover and bring the crown back to northern Indiana. Or for sake of thread, is the 6A title forever a "Indy area" title for the taking, unless there is a "team of the decade" out of the North. I believe it is, Indy area schools will win 9 out of 10, maybe 14 of 15, with a flyer school from the north that has a seasoned team ever once in a while. FYI, seeding will not making a difference in larger class football, JMO

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I concede. The Indy guys have spoken. Carmel, Warren Central, and Ben Davis have 28 titles because the "do things better", lol. 

Moving on. 

Why has North Central been largely terrible throughout their existence despite having a mega-enrollment since the inception of class football? Haven’t sniffed a state title.

[temptation]

21 minutes ago, BTF said:

Lol, that's fair. 

But...............I still think if the best team goes into a game half asleep, there are 15 teams waiting to take you out. 

I know this analogy has been made on here before and it pains me to say it, but the MIC is the high school version of the SEC.  They are invested and have many built in advantages that have been discussed as nauseam on this forum.

Does not mean an HCC school/Snider/Penn/other school CAN’T or WON’T break through, it’s just one hell of a steep climb. Above, it was discussed how the Clemson’s and Bama’s of the world have come back to the field and NIL was credited as a main reason why.

Hell, a Big Ten school won the title this year but it was a generational team from Ann Arbor that did it.  A fellow Big Ten school has gone ALL IN this season, reportedly spending $30 million on their roster for this upcoming season.  Not to be naive, but SEC schools have done that forever…similar to how MIC schools have been “all in” (see my points above) forever.

It’s going to take a generational team from outside of the “MIC 4” to dethrone them.

 

[psaboy]

16 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why has North Central been largely terrible throughout their existence despite having a mega-enrollment since the inception of class football? Haven’t sniffed a state title.

Kevin O'Shea, not very familiar with him, but thought there were high expectations when he started coaching there. what was his background, was there an higher expectation there then what was real?

[BTF]

20 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why has North Central been largely terrible throughout their existence despite having a mega-enrollment since the inception of class football? Haven’t sniffed a state title.

Coaching/Administrative buy-in. Can't have one without the other. But if you have both, you're 6A title dangerous. 

[Justasportsfan]

18 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why has North Central been largely terrible throughout their existence despite having a mega-enrollment since the inception of class football? Haven’t sniffed a state title.

North Central seems to focus on other sports imo..basketball n track..similar to Northrop..so much success in one sport yet nothing in football..on the other hand wc bd and Carmel all have titles in the other 2..

[temptation]

19 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Why has North Central been largely terrible throughout their existence despite having a mega-enrollment since the inception of class football? Haven’t sniffed a state title.

Discussed earlier.  NC is loaded in the country club sports and had a legendary basketball coach that was adamant about his athletes being on the hardwood year round.

NC had a couple of good years under O’Shea that just happened to coincide with their basketball coach hanging em up…makes you wonder.

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Coaching/Administrative buy-in. Can't have one without the other. But if you have both, you're 6A title dangerous. 

NC is undergoing a massive renovation to their facilities currently.  Could this be a big step in the right direction?

[BTF]

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

It’s going to take a generational team from outside of the “MIC 4” to dethrone them.

It's been that way for four decades and will be for at least another one. But if communities like Westfield, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, and Carroll continue to grow, that gap will close. The "MIC 4" won't dominate the next four decades like they did the last four. 

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

NC is undergoing a massive renovation to their facilities currently.  Could this be a big step in the right direction?

I guess. But it really starts with the youth programs/camps in my opinion. Buy-in from the middle schools. Booster club. It's a process. 

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

It's been that way for four decades and will be for at least another one. But if communities like Westfield, Fishers, HSE, Noblesville, and Carroll continue to grow, that gap will close. The "MIC 4" won't dominate the next four decades like they did the last four. 

I guess. But it really starts with the youth programs/camps in my opinion. Buy-in from the middle schools. Booster club. It's a process. 

I would not say 4 decades.  2.5 tops.  And yes, those gaps have already closed.  Hell, it’s been stated on this thread that if one were asked to rank Hamilton County’s programs today, Carmel would be 4th.

I have proclaimed the HCC as the future for a half decade now and always end up with egg on my face in November.  I am going to remain subdued this time around.
 

With BD/Warren likely starting the season 1-2 in some order, maybe THIS is the year someone else surprises?  I was all about Brownsburg and Cathedral the last couple of years so maybe the reverse psychology plays a role this year, lol?

O’Shea seemed like the guy at NC, until he didn’t.  No clue what happened there.

Edited July 10, 2024 by temptation