2024 6A Who can win it all?

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

All enrollments are not created equal.  You put 4600 kids at Carroll and you have a national powerhouse annually.

CG has punched above its weight and broken down the enrollment barrier for two decades now, it’s Carroll, Westfield and Brownsburg’s turn (along with HSE and Fishers) to do the same.

I'm not sure I'm willing to put more stock into rich kids than I am fast kids. I think coaching is the ultimate factor. Now, I do think an "average" coach is probably going to have more issues with a poor socioeconomic factor. I think Merrillville is a lot like Ben Davis and Warren Central. Good coaching, fast athletes, very dangerous. The only difference there is enrollment. 

I have a lot of respect for Eric Moore and what he's done at Center Grove. If there's a blueprint to follow, it's probably his. But you're right, it's time for the others to step up. Looking forward to Week 2 in Greenwood. 

[BDGiant93]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

If Cathedral could not win 6A with the talent they’ve had in recent years, it’s hard for me to fathom them doing it in 2024.

Cathedral was very close last year. That Ben Davis game in the Regional was a classic. You are 100 percent correct. Last year, they were loaded.

[BDGiant93]

15 hours ago, KmartGiant said:

It's funny I've been on this forum since many of you were in diapers. Haven't posted in years. Just been a long time fan and observer. Outside of Warren, BD, CG and Carmel can any of you prove that the word irrelevant isn't true for the pretenders? Not one of you can. Those 4 schools own 6A and Penn being the only big school in the conversation and they have been irrelevant for way too long. Since the pathetic IHSAA won't seed the big schools. we will continue to get the results we have gotten. Indy champ and some northern chump as runner up. It's never going to change. I compare it to the Carmel girls swimming dominance. Not one team outside of the Indy metro area will ever win a 6A title. Prove me wrong. Original forum poster.

Can confirm @KmartGiant has been around these here parts as long as I have. Probably since K-Mart was still a national thing...at least since the one on Washington Street on the Westside was open.

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

The usual suspects will be in the hunt in 6A, and it will come down to whomever wins the South Semi-State.

You have to respect what Craig Buzea has done at Crown Point , they've improved in each of his first three seasons. If they improve in year four, they could make some noise again. I also think the excitement Travon Curry brought to Elkhart is worth noting.  Carroll has a D1 quarterback and a D1 tight end, that could be interesting. I see what you're saying though. Weeks 1 & 2 are going to provide some answers. Carroll vs HSE, Snider vs Warren Central, and Carroll vs Center Grove. That will show how big the gap is, if there is one at all. 

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm not sure I'm willing to put more stock into rich kids than I am fast kids. I think coaching is the ultimate factor. Now, I do think an "average" coach is probably going to have more issues with a poor socioeconomic factor. I think Merrillville is a lot like Ben Davis and Warren Central. Good coaching, fast athletes, very dangerous. The only difference there is enrollment. 

I have a lot of respect for Eric Moore and what he's done at Center Grove. If there's a blueprint to follow, it's probably his. But you're right, it's time for the others to step up. Looking forward to Week 2 in Greenwood. 

Here is the thing…”the rich kids” (your words) are also fast.  Look at what Carroll and CG have done in track and field recently.  
 

If one thing was a given over the first 10-15 years of this century it was this:  

Whenever a team like BD/Warren faced off against a team like CG, it was widely accepted that the two Marion County schools had a decided speed advantage and that CG would have to rely on other variables in order to succeed.

That is no longer the case.  Folks may be curious why I have CG at 35 percent and BD/Warren tied for 2nd.  It’s because CG is the total package these days from the ground up.  They have it rolling.  Speed advantage, culture, coaching, etc.  Their consistency, specifically at the way they operate and their coaching staff remaining in tact while their rivals hit reset 2-3 times per decade makes them hard for me to bet against.

I like your Merrillville example and they are sort of like Cathedral in that their inability to win even when they had D1 talent gives me pause they’ll ever breakthrough, especially at the 6A level.

Carroll/CG should be a fascinating watch and even if the Chargers come up short, they should soak it all in and mimic the way CG operates after getting a front row seat in week 2.

 

Edited June 18 by temptation

[BDGiant93]

Just now, BTF said:

You have to respect what Craig Buzea has done at Crown Point , they've improved in each of his first three seasons. If they improve in year four, they could make some noise again. I also think the excitement Travon Curry brought to Elkhart is worth noting.  Carroll has a D1 quarterback and a D1 tight end, that could be interesting. I see what you're saying though. Weeks 1 & 2 are going to provide some answers. Carroll vs HSE, Snider vs Warren Central, and Carroll vs Center Grove. That will show how big the gap is, if there is one at all. 

I stand by my answer.

14 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm not sure I'm willing to put more stock into rich kids than I am fast kids.

Do you think Center Grove is the Sisters of the Poor?

[BTF]

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

but a lack of depth at other positions dooms a team’s chances.

Offensive line most specifically. If you don't have a deep, imposing offensive line in 6A, good luck and God speed. 

[temptation]

6 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I stand by my answer.

Do you think Center Grove is the Sisters of the Poor?

While BD and Warren are in the weight room each spring, CG’s kids are competing in track and field.

This cannot be ignored when folks take a look at how the “speed gap” has changed.

Eric Moore is heavily involved in track and field and is huge on multi-sport athletes.

Its funny how things seem to have flipped…the strong county outlier trying to get faster while the strong metropolitan schools trying to get stronger.

Edited June 18 by temptation

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Here is the thing…”the rich kids” (your words) are also fast.  Look at what Carroll and CG have done in track and field recently.  
 

If one thing was a given over the first 10-15 years of this century it was this:  

Whenever a team like BD/Warren faced off against a team like CG, it was widely accepted that the two Marion County schools had a decided speed advantage and that CG would have to rely on other variables in order to succeed.

That is no longer the case.  Folks may be curious why I have CG at 35 percent and BD/Warren tied for 2nd.  It’s because CG is the total package these days from the ground up.  They have it rolling.  Speed advantage, culture, coaching, etc.  Their consistency, specifically at the way they operate and their coaching staff remaining in tact while their rivals hit reset 2-3 times per decade makes them hard for me to bet against.

I like your Merrillville example and they are sort of like Cathedral in that their inability to win even when they had D1 talent gives me pause they’ll ever breakthrough, especially at the 6A level.

Carroll/CG should be a fascinating watch and even if the Chargers come up short, they should soak it all in and mimic the way CG operates after getting a front row seat in week 2.

 

Good post, not much to add. I have a lot of respect for Carroll and their willingness to go to Greenwood when many others turned them down. Dinan's no dummy, he knows that front row seat will make his program better. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Good post, not much to add. I have a lot of respect for Carroll and their willingness to go to Greenwood when many others turned them down. Dinan's no dummy, he knows that front row seat will make his program better. 

I am a fan of athletic departments that don’t duck competition.

CG was unfairly painted in a certain way due to the actions of a handful of students while also dominating their conference foes so their rivals turned tail and ran.

No one has apologized but kudos to the Giants for realizing the errors of their ways and putting them back on the schedule.

Edited June 18 by temptation

[BDGiant93]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

While BD and Warren are in the weight room each spring, CG’s kids are competing in track and field.

This cannot be ignored when folks take a look at how the “speed gap” has changed.

Dick Dullaghan used to say, "Speed kills...just like on the highway."

 

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I stand by my answer.

Do you think Center Grove is the Sisters of the Poor?

As you should, any sane betting man would. 

Not sure what your correlation is with CG and Sister's of the Poor. Someone help me on this. Sister's of the poor are a bunch of nuns who care for old people. Do the Trojans take mercy on their lessor opponents? I really don't know. 

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Dick Dullaghan used to say, "Speed kills...just like on the highway."

 

Can’t argue…and even most D1 football coaches publicly state they want multi-sport athletes but some high school coaches just seem hesitant to get on board.

Can’t figure it out for the life of me.

Just now, BTF said:

As you should, any sane betting man would. 

Not sure what your correlation is with CG and Sister's of the Poor. Someone help me on this. Sister's of the poor are a bunch of nuns who care for old people. Do the Trojans take mercy on their lessor opponents? I really don't know. 

I believe he thinks you are calling CG slow.

[BDGiant93]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not sure what your correlation is with CG and Sister's of the Poor. Someone help me on this. Sister's of the poor are a bunch of nuns who care for old people. Do the Trojans take mercy on their lessor opponents? I really don't know. 

Center Grove has been successful and they are socioeconomically advantaged in that area. That was my point...inartfully made.

[BTF]

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

CG was unfairly painted in a certain way due to the actions of a handful of students while also dominating their conference foes so their rivals turned tail and ran.

Dinan don't give a shit. He just wants to be good and will do whatever it takes. I hope he's not "just having a good run" and his program continues on the uptick. 

[BTF]

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

While BD and Warren are in the weight room each spring, CG’s kids are competing in track and field.

This cannot be ignored when folks take a look at how the “speed gap” has changed.

Eric Moore is heavily involved in track and field and is huge on multi-sport athletes.

Russ Isaacs' model in the 90's........."year round training."

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

Dinan don't give a shit. He just wants to be good and will do whatever it takes. I hope he's not "just having a good run" and his program continues on the uptick. 

Carroll’s district still experiencing growth, no?

[BTF]

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

Carroll’s district still experiencing growth, no?

Massively, it's outgrowing the other districts by far. Fort Wayne used to look like a circle. It's starting to look like the shape of Idaho. They'll be 3000+ in a few years. 

[Boilernation]

28 minutes ago, temptation said:

Can’t argue…and even most D1 football coaches publicly state they want multi-sport athletes but some high school coaches just seem hesitant to get on board.

Can’t figure it out for the life of me.

 

I was watching one of the CWS games over the weekend, possibly NC State vs. Kentucky, and the entire announcing crew took a deep dive into essesntially scolding parents and baseball coaches for not allowing today's athletes to play multiple sports. They said MLB scouts prefer to see multi-sport athletes. They mentioned that a lot of the great baseball players from Puerto Rico were also very good volleyball players. Especially Carlos Beltran. One of them claimed that Beltran was better at volleyball than baseball.

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, BTF said:

Massively, it's outgrowing the other districts by far. Fort Wayne used to look like a circle. It's starting to look like the shape of Idaho. They'll be 3000+ in a few years. 

So, if Dinan is patient and sees it through I’d expect the ascent of the program to continue.

10 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

I was watching one of the CWS games over the weekend, possibly NC State vs. Kentucky, and the entire announcing crew took a deep dive into essesntially scolding parents and baseball coaches for not allowing today's athletes to play multiple sports. They said MLB scouts prefer to see multi-sport athletes. They mentioned that a lot of the great baseball players from Puerto Rico were also very good volleyball players. Especially Carlos Beltran. One of them claimed that Beltran was better at volleyball than baseball.

The AAU/travel/club sport trap that parents fall into is worse than it’s ever been.

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

While BD and Warren are in the weight room each spring, CG’s kids are competing in track and field.

This cannot be ignored when folks take a look at how the “speed gap” has changed.

Eric Moore is heavily involved in track and field and is huge on multi-sport athletes.

Its funny how things seem to have flipped…the strong county outlier trying to get faster while the strong metropolitan schools trying to get stronger.

CG's kids are in the weight room too...trust me on that one.  One incredible strength and conditioning coach.  But I did understand your comment.

You could say Coach Moore has been heavily involved in track....was the varsity boys track coach for a couple of decades.  Won a state title and had a number of top 5 teams.  Handed off the baton (no pun intended) to Brad Timmons this season (long time football assistant) and they had another fantastic track season in 2024.  

[BDGiant93]

14 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

CG's kids are in the weight room too...trust me on that one.  One incredible strength and conditioning coach.  But I did understand your comment.

You could say Coach Moore has been heavily involved in track....was the varsity boys track coach for a couple of decades.  Won a state title and had a number of top 5 teams.  Handed off the baton (no pun intended) to Brad Timmons this season (long time football assistant) and they had another fantastic track season in 2024.  

I didn't write it, but many of Ben Davis's football players are in track, too. After all, BD's boys track coach, Mike Davidson, was a football coach from like 1989-2016 or so. 

[Bash Riprock]

3 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I didn't write it, but many of Ben Davis's football players are in track, too. After all, BD's boys track coach, Mike Davidson, was a football coach from like 1989-2016 or so. 

Yep...have seen many of the football players run track for BD over the years.  BD has an excellent track program.

[temptation]

26 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

CG's kids are in the weight room too...trust me on that one.  One incredible strength and conditioning coach.  But I did understand your comment.

You could say Coach Moore has been heavily involved in track....was the varsity boys track coach for a couple of decades.  Won a state title and had a number of top 5 teams.  Handed off the baton (no pun intended) to Brad Timmons this season (long time football assistant) and they had another fantastic track season in 2024.  

Sorry for my lack of clarification.  Did not mean to short change the CG S&C program.  There are multiple ways to accomplish strength, and the weight room is one component.  

5 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Yep...have seen many of the football players run track for BD over the years.  BD has an excellent track program.

The BD/Warren track and field programs are shells of their former selves.

Far from “excellent.”

Edited June 18 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

32 minutes ago, temptation said:

Sorry for my lack of clarification.  Did not mean to short change the CG S&C program.  There are multiple ways to accomplish strength, and the weight room is one component.  

The BD/Warren track and field programs are shells of their former selves.

Far from “excellent.”

I didn't take it as a negative....just giving props to an incredible strength program at CG.

You are most likely closer to the track programs than myself....I am thinking of the days in which my kids ran (boys ands girls) and that was a few years ago.  Back then, typically always strong programs.  

Just looked up IHSAA season results...BD did win a sectional.  Warren...struggled.  Looking at regional and state results, I definitely get your point.  Not where both schools used to be.....