Temp’s Preseason Top 50

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Safe to assume you have Crown Point, Valpo and Merrillville in the Top 25? And Avon/Zionsville are the only HCC teams not in the Top 25?

Correct.

[NLCTigerFan07]

I feel like you have either overrated or underrated my Warsaw Tigers. I would have probably put them in your "Best of the Rest" category, especially since they are a combined 5-1 over the last 3 seasons against Michigan City and Northridge, and 2-2 over the last 4 years against both FW Carroll and NorthWood (likely teams in your Top 25). I realize this is a ranking for this season, but with Bart Ball humming along into it's 7th season, the Tigers simply reload with the next man up these years and still churn out 7, 8, 9 win seasons.

If they are not included this Friday in your 21-25 rankings (which I think would be awfully generous), I would say you have underrated Warsaw.

[temptation]

33 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I feel like you have either overrated or underrated my Warsaw Tigers. I would have probably put them in your "Best of the Rest" category, especially since they are a combined 5-1 over the last 3 seasons against Michigan City and Northridge, and 2-2 over the last 4 years against both FW Carroll and NorthWood (likely teams in your Top 25). I realize this is a ranking for this season, but with Bart Ball humming along into it's 7th season, the Tigers simply reload with the next man up these years and still churn out 7, 8, 9 win seasons.

If they are not included this Friday in your 21-25 rankings (which I think would be awfully generous), I would say you have underrated Warsaw.

 “The Tigers simply reload with the next man up these years and still churn out 7, 8, 9 win seasons.”

I think you may have answered your own question…😉

[temptation]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:28 PM, from_the_sidelines007 said:

Appreciate all the work you've done in preparation for your Top 50!

Would be difficult for a 1A/2A team to get listed.

 

What criteria do you use to separate these teams?

 

as always, the game is better

 from_the_sidelines007 

It’s definitely an inexact science like any poll, more so because I don’t see many teams “in person.”

To be honest, there are about 15 teams that simply reload and get the “tradition” benefit, then I take a look at coaching staffs and give a bit of a “bump” to those with proven coaches, scour any type of online intel (MaxPreps, newspapers, this board, social media, 247 recruits, etc) and then put my personal touch on things in terms of strong regions annually.

Really hard for a 1A/2A school and even most 3A ones to crack the initial list but opportunities are there once the season starts.

[temptation]

25.  Warsaw

24.  Valparaiso

23.  Mishswaka

22.  Noblesville

21.   Merrillville

Edited July 26, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

25.  Warsaw

24.  Valparaiso

23.  Mishswaka

22.  Noblesville

21.   Merrillville

Good representation from the Northwest. Not sure I'd bank on Merrillville beating Noblesville in a head to head game though. 

[temptation]

16 minutes ago, BTF said:

Good representation from the Northwest. Not sure I'd bank on Merrillville beating Noblesville in a head to head game though. 

Like Brownsburg but on a smaller level, I’ve gotta see Noblesville win a meaningful October game before I can elevate them to the next level or take them seriously.

Hell, as I typed that I said to myself out loud, “I could say the same about Merrillville” lol.

[BTF]

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

Like Brownsburg but on a smaller level, I’ve gotta see Noblesville win a meaningful October game before I can elevate them to the next level or take them seriously.

Hell, as I typed that I said to myself out loud, “I could say the same about Merrillville” lol.

Agree.

My next question is whether or not you're buying into the Elkhart hype. Certainly they are Top 50 with the addition of some talented transfers, but definitely a wait and see. Don't spill the beans though, surprise us. 

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Agree.

My next question is whether or not you're buying into the Elkhart hype. Certainly they are Top 50 with the addition of some talented transfers, but definitely a wait and see. Don't spill the beans though, surprise us. 

Not ready…yet.  Could see them slowly climbing that top 50 towards the top 25 as they have a couple of early season tests but the October 4th game at Penn will tell me all I need to know.

That could truly be a contest of northern Indiana’s past vs northern Indiana’s future.

[Komets2727]

6 hours ago, temptation said:

25.  Warsaw

24.  Valparaiso

23.  Mishswaka

22.  Noblesville

21.   Merrillville

25. Merrillville 

24. Valparaiso 

23. Mishawaka 

22. Warsaw

21. Noblesville 

[BTF]

2 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

25. Merrillville 

24. Valparaiso 

23. Mishawaka 

22. Warsaw

21. Noblesville 

Looking forward to what Mishawaka can do in 4A. Two top notch athletes getting poached by Elkhart shouldn't affect Coach Kinder and the program that the Cavemen have built over the last few decades. 

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Looking forward to what Mishawaka can do in 4A. Two top notch athletes getting poached by Elkhart shouldn't affect Coach Kinder and the program that the Cavemen have built over the last few decades. 

I agree with you on Mishawaka. Very hard team to defend when you don’t play them yearly. I would expect them to make some noise in 4A. I would say that Mishawaka by far gave Snider their toughest game in the playoffs last year

[BTF]

4 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I agree with you on Mishawaka. Very hard team to defend when you don’t play them yearly. I would expect them to make some noise in 4A. I would say that Mishawaka by far gave Snider their toughest game in the playoffs last year

From beginning to end? Without a doubt. 

[Komets2727]

15 hours ago, BTF said:

From beginning to end? Without a doubt. 

I dare say, after rewatching that game, Snider was very fortunate to win that game. It shouldn’t have come down to a 45 yard field goal to win the game as the Panthers made some critical errors, but good teams figure out a way to win those type of games 

[NLCTigerFan07]

On 7/26/2024 at 7:21 AM, temptation said:

25.  Warsaw

24.  Valparaiso

23.  Mishswaka

22.  Noblesville

21.   Merrillville

I will be interested to see how Warsaw does these next two years (and possibly beyond) in class 5A. The Tigers have always been in the largest class since the start of class football moving to 5 classifications in 1985 (and then 6A in 2013) and were always included in a sectional grouping that had either Indiana High School perinnial powers Penn or Fort Wayne Snider (sometimes BOTH!). The only exception was a 4 year run from 2013-2016 when they were grouped with Carroll, Homestead and Northrop.

Now Warsaw moves into a Sectional grouping featuring an NLC conference duo of Concord and Goshen joined by, usually, a middle of the road SAC squad Fort Wayne North Side. Then, if they can win that sectional, a regional matchup against Kokomo, Lafayette Jeff, McCutcheon, or South Bend Adams would await. No disrespect to any of those programs, but none mentioned are not up to the level of competitiveness as a Penn or Snider (or Carroll or Homestead for that matter), let alone potential regional opponents like Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Crown Point, Merrillville or Valparaiso over the last decade.

I'm not saying the Tigers have a cakewalk to a Semi-State appearance whatsoever, but these next 2 years are as good an opportunity as they have ever had in the history of their program. Here's to hoping they can do it!

[temptation]

2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I will be interested to see how Warsaw does these next two years (and possibly beyond) in class 5A. The Tigers have always been in the largest class since the start of class football moving to 5 classifications in 1985 (and then 6A in 2013) and were always included in a sectional grouping that had either Indiana High School perinnial powers Penn or Fort Wayne Snider (sometimes BOTH!). The only exception was a 4 year run from 2013-2016 when they were grouped with Carroll, Homestead and Northrop.

Now Warsaw moves into a Sectional grouping featuring an NLC conference duo of Concord and Goshen joined by, usually, a middle of the road SAC squad Fort Wayne North Side. Then, if they can win that sectional, a regional matchup against Kokomo, Lafayette Jeff, McCutcheon, or South Bend Adams would await. No disrespect to any of those programs, but none mentioned are not up to the level of competitiveness as a Penn or Snider (or Carroll or Homestead for that matter), let alone potential regional opponents like Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Crown Point, Merrillville or Valparaiso over the last decade.

I'm not saying the Tigers have a cakewalk to a Semi-State appearance whatsoever, but these next 2 years are as good an opportunity as they have ever had in the history of their program. Here's to hoping they can do it!

Warsaw/Warren spread right now in your mind is…

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Warsaw/Warren spread right now in your mind is…

Why Warren vs Warsaw? Last year, I would have had Warsaw by 4 points, this year, no clue. Based on hype for Warren, 17-21 points, but games are not won on paper. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, Komets2727 said:

Why Warren vs Warsaw? Last year, I would have had Warsaw by 4 points, this year, no clue. Based on hype for Warren, 17-21 points, but games are not won on paper. 

They play in week 2.  A measuring stick game for Warsaw.

Edited July 29, 2024 by temptation

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

They play in week 2.  A measuring stick game for Warsaw.

Well, considering Warren plays Snider week 1 will tell you whether Warren should be favored by 28 points or it is a pick em game vs Warsaw

[temptation]

18 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Well, considering Warren plays Snider week 1 will tell you whether Warren should be favored by 28 points or it is a pick em game vs Warsaw

You got lucky once.  😉

I respect the hell out of Warsaw (enough to rank em) but if they are even close to Warren in the 2nd half, that is damning for the Warriors.

Edited July 30, 2024 by temptation

[Komets2727]

16 minutes ago, temptation said:

You got lucky once.  😉

I respect the hell out of Warsaw (enough to rank em) but if they are even close to Warren in the 2nd half, that is damning for the Warriors.

I respect Warsaw enough to know that possessions will be minimized and blowing them out is extremely difficult unless that have uncharacteristic turnovers. That is “Bart ball” to a t…

Now, let’s clarify right now, I am not calling the upset now, I want to see how week 1 plays out and how teams mesh. History tells me that Warsaw plays ball control very well and possessions are at a premium

Edited July 30, 2024 by Komets2727

[temptation]

27 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I respect Warsaw enough to know that possessions will be minimized and blowing them out is extremely difficult unless that have uncharacteristic turnovers. That is “Bart ball” to a t…

Now, let’s clarify right now, I am not calling the upset now, I want to see how week 1 plays out and how teams mesh. History tells me that Warsaw plays ball control very well and possessions are at a premium

See a lot of 3 and outs for Warsaw in this one…hard to control the tempo.

[BTF]

Carroll beat Warren last year. Warsaw waxed Carroll. All bets are off when you go up against "Bart ball."

I think coming up with a spread in that game is difficult. I think comes down to how good Warren's offense is. They've had some very talented offenses in the past. If this is one of them, they'll score some points against the Tigers. Warsaw will eat the clock for sure, but will they get enough first downs against a VERY talented defensive line to run the clock down far enough to keep the game close? I don't want to underestimate Warsaw, so I'll just sit on the sidelines and see how it plays out. 

[temptation]

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I respect Warsaw enough to know that possessions will be minimized and blowing them out is extremely difficult unless that have uncharacteristic turnovers. That is “Bart ball” to a t…

Now, let’s clarify right now, I am not calling the upset now, I want to see how week 1 plays out and how teams mesh. History tells me that Warsaw plays ball control very well and possessions are at a premium

What do you need to see in week 1 to convince you that Warsaw has a chance at being in the game/winning at Warren in week 2?

[temptation]

7 hours ago, BTF said:

Carroll beat Warren last year. Warsaw waxed Carroll. All bets are off when you go up against "Bart ball."

I think coming up with a spread in that game is difficult. I think comes down to how good Warren's offense is. They've had some very talented offenses in the past. If this is one of them, they'll score some points against the Tigers. Warsaw will eat the clock for sure, but will they get enough first downs against a VERY talented defensive line to run the clock down far enough to keep the game close? I don't want to underestimate Warsaw, so I'll just sit on the sidelines and see how it plays out. 

Those games were at completely different parts of the season.