Warren Central at Snider (Wayne High School)

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Warren had 3 interceptions, 1 running back fumble, and 1 fumbled punt, all recovered by Snider. Snider had 2 turnovers. Both offenses were bad, Snider’s was worse. It was a very ugly game…

So, the argument could be made that even though the Warren turnovers did not lead to any Snider points, the 15 point margin of victory could have been worse?

Couple that with Warren’s lack of a kicking game and I’m thinking Snider was fortunate to only lose by two scores.

I know at least 1 of Warren’s INTs was in the end zone…

Edited August 24, 2024 by temptation

[Justasportsfan]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

So, the argument could be made that even though the Warren turnovers did not lead to any Snider points, the 15 point margin of victory could have been worse?

Couple that with Warren’s lack of a kicking game and I’m thinking Snider was fortunate to only lose by two scores.

I know at least 1 of Warren’s INTs was in the end zone…

Could also have been closer..the Warren offense really didn't do much..Snider just did less..way less..

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

Could also have been closer..the Warren offense really didn't do much..Snider just did less..way less..

Usually takes a couple of weeks for the offense to catch up to the defense but if I were a Warren fan, it’d be cautious after watching that last night.

Taking nothing away from the Snider D, but from my vantage point (limited) Warren looked reminiscent of last year on offense and really looked most competent when the backup (non transfer) QB was in.

[Justasportsfan]

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

Usually takes a couple of weeks for the offense to catch up to the defense but if I were a Warren fan, it’d be cautious after watching that last night.

Taking nothing away from the Snider D, but from my vantage point (limited) Warren looked reminiscent of last year on offense and really looked most competent when the backup (non transfer) QB was in.

True. Their sophomore qb looked to be their best option..that defense will win games for them though..

[Komets2727]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

So, the argument could be made that even though the Warren turnovers did not lead to any Snider points, the 15 point margin of victory could have been worse?

Couple that with Warren’s lack of a kicking game and I’m thinking Snider was fortunate to only lose by two scores.

I know at least 1 of Warren’s INTs was in the end zone…

Actually this is not accurate. Snider did intercept a pass in the end zone but it was negated due to an offside call so they could have had 4 interceptions hence why I said the starter for Warren was bad. You are also failing to mention Snider missing 2 field goals as well. Really, it should have been an 8-6 final score, but Snider gives up an 80 yard TD pass with multiple missed tackles on a 3rd and 26 early in the 4th quarter. The argument could be made that both offenses were hapless…

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Usually takes a couple of weeks for the offense to catch up to the defense but if I were a Warren fan, it’d be cautious after watching that last night.

Taking nothing away from the Snider D, but from my vantage point (limited) Warren looked reminiscent of last year on offense and really looked most competent when the backup (non transfer) QB was in.

Backup QB was way better than the starter

Edited August 24, 2024 by Komets2727

[temptation]

27 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Actually this is not accurate. Snider did intercept a pass in the end zone but it was negated due to an offside call so they could have had 4 interceptions hence why I said the starter for Warren was bad. You are also failing to mention Snider missing 2 field goals as well. Really, it should have been an 8-6 final score, but Snider gives up an 80 yard TD pass with multiple missed tackles on a 3rd and 26 early in the 4th quarter. The argument could be made that both offenses were hapless…

Backup QB was way better than the starter

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

No offense to Snider, but there will be tougher teams on Warren’s schedule and I have a hard time taking them seriously as a contender without an offensive identity and consistency.

They’ll roll Warsaw but afterwards, there’s only one more gimme (NC) on the schedule before the tournament.

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

No offense to Snider, but there will be tougher teams on Warren’s schedule and I have a hard time taking them seriously as a contender without an offensive identity and consistency.

They’ll roll Warsaw but afterwards, there’s only one more gimme (NC) on the schedule before the tournament.

I agree at this point. Hell, I see Snider struggling with East Noble next week. Warren is hard for me to take seriously as well. That offense was awful. Good running back, horrid QB play. Not going to beat good teams with 5 turnovers week after week no matter how good your defense is. I give much more credence right now to Brownsburg, Cathedral, HSE, Westfield as the top 4 teams 

[psaboy]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

No offense to Snider, but there will be tougher teams on Warren’s schedule and I have a hard time taking them seriously as a contender without an offensive identity and consistency.

They’ll roll Warsaw but afterwards, there’s only one more gimme (NC) on the schedule before the tournament.

Yep, I agree. The top (maybe most??) Indy football teams are light years better than what the top FWA teams can offer, IMO. 

Edited August 25, 2024 by psaboy

[BTF]

16 hours ago, temptation said:

So, the argument could be made that even though the Warren turnovers did not lead to any Snider points, the 15 point margin of victory could have been worse?

Couple that with Warren’s lack of a kicking game and I’m thinking Snider was fortunate to only lose by two scores.

I know at least 1 of Warren’s INTs was in the end zone…

Warren's lack of kicking game makes them a four down team in situations where most teams would kick. Couple that with the trust they had in their defense against the Snider offense, and now you have four opportunities to advance the ball. Warren's first touchdown came after converting on a 4th and 6. Second came on a 3rd and forever in which the Snider D uncharacteristically came up short on two tackles. This game was damn close that featured, arguably, the two best defenses in the state. Yet the team that loses gets crucified and is no longer taken "seriously." Man, I need to find a new hobby after reading this crap. 

You can play the "what if" game all you want Temp, but so can Snider. If all the bounces fall Warren's way, they might win 22-0. If all the bounces go Snider's way, the Panther's win 17-0. No one wants to talk about the two missed field goals, the dropped pass at the 5 yard line, or the missed holding that kept Snider from jumping out to 7-0 in the first quarter. Just take the 15-0 win and be happy. 

"If Warren didn't turn the ball over, they would have scored more points." Give me a break. Snider utterly dominated Warren on those plays to force those turnovers. Wanna play this game all week? What if Snider didn't miss those tackles? Good Lord. 

Congrats to Warren on their 15-0 win. The commentary on this game is turning into a clown show. The difference between these two teams is slim and Snider won't have issues with East Noble (Komets Holtz). 

Edited August 25, 2024 by BTF

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Warren's lack of kicking game makes them a four down team in situations where most teams would kick. Couple that with the trust they had in their defense against the Snider offense, and now you have four opportunities to advance the ball. Warren's first touchdown came after converting on a 4th and 6. Second came on a 3rd and forever in which the Snider D uncharacteristically came up short on two tackles. This game was damn close that featured, arguably, the two best defenses in the state. Yet the team that loses gets crucified and is no longer taken "seriously." Man, I need to find a new hobby after reading this crap. 

You can play the "what if" game all you want Temp, but so can Snider. If all the bounces fall Warren's way, they might win 22-0. If all the bounces go Snider's way, the Panther's win 17-0. No one wants to talk about the two missed field goals, the dropped pass at the 5 yard line, or the missed holding that kept Snider from jumping out to 7-0 in the first quarter. Just take the 15-0 win and be happy. 

"If Warren didn't turn the ball over, they would have scored more points." Give me a break. Snider utterly dominated Warren on those plays to force those turnovers. Wanna play this game all week? What if Snider didn't miss those tackles? Good Lord. 

Congrats to Warren on their 15-0 win. The commentary on this game is turning into a clown show. The difference between these two teams is slim and Snider won't have issues with East Noble (Komets Holtz). 

Nah, miss me with this.  Four turnovers (-2 in turnover margin) and you still win by two possessions?

That’s a rare occurrence in football.

Neither of these teams are state title contenders until I see more.  The good thing for them is there are 8 weeks left in the season and I expect parity in 6A for a change.

[psaboy]

I would be interested in knowing what the yardage was for the WC offense. I'm thinking around 200-250 yards?? Their offense was way more effective than Snider's for sure. I think I saw Snider total yards gained on O were around 45??

[BTF]

20 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nah, miss me with this.  Four turnovers (-2 in turnover margin) and you still win by two possessions?

That’s a rare occurrence in football.

Neither of these teams are state title contenders until I see more.  The good thing for them is there are 8 weeks left in the season and I expect parity in 6A for a change.

Both teams were the recipients of plenty of penalty yardage. Snider's punting game struggled. And with two turnovers of their own, WC was blessed with some pretty good field position. Snider only giving up two touchdowns is indicative to how good their defense is. Two teams in your Top 5 put on a defensive clinic and now neither one are state title contenders? I do agree about the 8 weeks to prepare. Both these teams have enough talent on the offensive side of the ball to be pretty good teams by the end of the season. Once they both start dishing out big numbers, everyone will look back on this game and realize just how good these two defenses were. I honestly thought I was watching a D3 college game when I saw these two teams warming up. No gloom and doom here. 

[BTF]

5 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I would be interested in knowing what the yardage was for the WC offense. I'm thinking around 200-250 yards?? Their offense was way more effective than Snider's for sure. I think I saw Snider total yards gained on O were around 45??

No idea what the stats were. Warren had the better offense, hence the 15-0 victory. For every play Snider garnered 5 yards, Warren had one that garnered 10.............and they were all few and far between. A huge chunk of Warren's yardage came on that last touchdown. The size Warren had in the trenches seemed to wear Snider down as the game went on. That's 6A football for you. It's why I always emphasize line play as the key ingredient to long 6A playoff runs. Time to move on from this game and throw the "what if's" out the window. 

[psaboy]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

No idea what the stats were. Warren had the better offense, hence the 15-0 victory. For every play Snider garnered 5 yards, Warren had one that garnered 10.............and they were all few and far between. A huge chunk of Warren's yardage came on that last touchdown. The size Warren had in the trenches seemed to wear Snider down as the game went on. That's 6A football for you. It's why I always emphasize line play as the key ingredient to long 6A playoff runs. Time to move on from this game and throw the "what if's" out the window. 

Yep, time to get ready for East Noble. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Both teams were the recipients of plenty of penalty yardage. Snider's punting game struggled. And with two turnovers of their own, WC was blessed with some pretty good field position. Snider only giving up two touchdowns is indicative to how good their defense is. Two teams in your Top 5 put on a defensive clinic and now neither one are state title contenders? I do agree about the 8 weeks to prepare. Both these teams have enough talent on the offensive side of the ball to be pretty good teams by the end of the season. Once they both start dishing out big numbers, everyone will look back on this game and realize just how good these two defenses were. I honestly thought I was watching a D3 college game when I saw these two teams warming up. No gloom and doom here. 

Yes but both teams also repeatedly shot themselves in the foot which is not a characteristic of a state title contender.

We can chalk some of it up to early season rust but title contending teams don’t do these things and if they do, the other team capitalizes more often than not.

I spoke out of turn earlier earlier this month in claiming that Warren had the best defense in the state last year and then back tracked after I dug deeper into the numbers, but now I might be right back in that same camp.

These are the same kids just a year older and the reason they were on the wrong side of many of those losses last year was because their defense could only do so much and eventually the damn broke after the offense repeatedly played undisciplined football.

Good news for both teams, as I mentioned, that there is no runaway winner this year in 6A.  We’ve got two months to sort things out, but Mike Kirschner’s Warren teams have a clear identity at this point in his tenure..and it ain’t good.

As for Snider, they’ve seen the best defense they will all year and that offensive line will grow but I can’t see them putting up enough points on a Westfield/HSE in the tournament should they get that far.

Edited August 25, 2024 by temptation

[Komets2727]

4 hours ago, BTF said:

Warren's lack of kicking game makes them a four down team in situations where most teams would kick. Couple that with the trust they had in their defense against the Snider offense, and now you have four opportunities to advance the ball. Warren's first touchdown came after converting on a 4th and 6. Second came on a 3rd and forever in which the Snider D uncharacteristically came up short on two tackles. This game was damn close that featured, arguably, the two best defenses in the state. Yet the team that loses gets crucified and is no longer taken "seriously." Man, I need to find a new hobby after reading this crap. 

You can play the "what if" game all you want Temp, but so can Snider. If all the bounces fall Warren's way, they might win 22-0. If all the bounces go Snider's way, the Panther's win 17-0. No one wants to talk about the two missed field goals, the dropped pass at the 5 yard line, or the missed holding that kept Snider from jumping out to 7-0 in the first quarter. Just take the 15-0 win and be happy. 

"If Warren didn't turn the ball over, they would have scored more points." Give me a break. Snider utterly dominated Warren on those plays to force those turnovers. Wanna play this game all week? What if Snider didn't miss those tackles? Good Lord. 

Congrats to Warren on their 15-0 win. The commentary on this game is turning into a clown show. The difference between these two teams is slim and Snider won't have issues with East Noble (Komets Holtz). 

Isn’t it kind of funny that we have reversed roles a bit here? No way, no way any fan should leave that game feeling good about the overall performance. Both teams have really good defenses, last I checked, there is a thing called offense that determines whether or not you score points and win the game. East Noble will give Snider trouble, just wait. As far as Warren goes, they are not a serious contender either with how porous that offense looked.

To be accurate, Warren had 5 turnovers, Snider 2. Warren ran the ball decently, couldn’t throw worth crap other than the 80 yard touchdown that was thrown 15 yards and ran 65 yards. Snider had decent success in the air minus the 2 interceptions, but couldn’t run the ball for crap. I think both teams will struggle, Snider might go 6-3, Warren 6-3 as well.

[temptation]

25 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Isn’t it kind of funny that we have reversed roles a bit here? No way, no way any fan should leave that game feeling good about the overall performance. Both teams have really good defenses, last I checked, there is a thing called offense that determines whether or not you score points and win the game. East Noble will give Snider trouble, just wait. As far as Warren goes, they are not a serious contender either with how porous that offense looked.

To be accurate, Warren had 5 turnovers, Snider 2. Warren ran the ball decently, couldn’t throw worth crap other than the 80 yard touchdown that was thrown 15 yards and ran 65 yards. Snider had decent success in the air minus the 2 interceptions, but couldn’t run the ball for crap. I think both teams will struggle, Snider might go 6-3, Warren 6-3 as well.

FIVE turnovers and you win by 15, lol.

[BTF]

10 hours ago, temptation said:

As for Snider, they’ve seen the best defense they will all year and that offensive line will grow but I can’t see them putting up enough points on a Westfield/HSE in the tournament should they get that far.

If Snider's offense improves enough to put 17 (we all know they will) on the board against HSE or Westfield, they'll have a chance. I called the Snider/Warren game. I knew what was going to happen (neither offense would muster more than 2 touchdowns) when everyone had both teams in their Top 5. My prediction came to fruition and now both teams are going to struggle. Good Lord, I need to take a break from this place. 

8 hours ago, temptation said:

FIVE turnovers and you win by 15, lol.

Stop. You weren't there. Your Warren allegiance is showing. 

[BTF]

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Isn’t it kind of funny that we have reversed roles a bit here? No way, no way any fan should leave that game feeling good about the overall performance. Both teams have really good defenses, last I checked, there is a thing called offense that determines whether or not you score points and win the game. East Noble will give Snider trouble, just wait. As far as Warren goes, they are not a serious contender either with how porous that offense looked.

To be accurate, Warren had 5 turnovers, Snider 2. Warren ran the ball decently, couldn’t throw worth crap other than the 80 yard touchdown that was thrown 15 yards and ran 65 yards. Snider had decent success in the air minus the 2 interceptions, but couldn’t run the ball for crap. I think both teams will struggle, Snider might go 6-3, Warren 6-3 as well.

I've got to give you credit. You don't mince words and you call it like you see it. But you saw a different team than I did. When Snider loses their third regular season game, I'll take a 12 month break from posting starting on that date. If they "struggle" against East Noble (don't win by 14), I'll break until playoffs. 

Edited August 25, 2024 by BTF

[WarrenGrad12]

Also, the kid who will likely be Warren’s best offensive player didn’t play Friday night due to illness. The one who transferred from Westfield. 
 

Warren is perfectly fine up front, have depth at receiver, and a lot of really good depth at RB. The only question is QB and it was game 1 vs a good defense. As opposed to recent years, I believe the answer is on the roster which hasn’t felt like the case the last couple of years. 

9 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Isn’t it kind of funny that we have reversed roles a bit here? No way, no way any fan should leave that game feeling good about the overall performance. Both teams have really good defenses, last I checked, there is a thing called offense that determines whether or not you score points and win the game. East Noble will give Snider trouble, just wait. As far as Warren goes, they are not a serious contender either with how porous that offense looked.

To be accurate, Warren had 5 turnovers, Snider 2. Warren ran the ball decently, couldn’t throw worth crap other than the 80 yard touchdown that was thrown 15 yards and ran 65 yards. Snider had decent success in the air minus the 2 interceptions, but couldn’t run the ball for crap. I think both teams will struggle, Snider might go 6-3, Warren 6-3 as well.

A couple of things: 6-3 for Warren would be much better from where they’ve been basically since 2019. Especially against their schedule. I think the defense is good enough to get them to 7-2, but I know I’m biased. 

[temptation]

23 minutes ago, BTF said:

If Snider's offense improves enough to put 17 (we all know they will) on the board against HSE or Westfield, they'll have a chance. I called the Snider/Warren game. I knew what was going to happen (neither offense would muster more than 2 touchdowns) when everyone had both teams in their Top 5. My prediction came to fruition and now both teams are going to struggle. Good Lord, I need to take a break from this place. 

Stop. You weren't there. Your Warren allegiance is showing. 

7 combined turnovers…you may have called the margin and low scoring affair but even you didn’t see that coming.  
 

I have no Warren allegiance by the way.  Check my posting history.

[BTF]

15 minutes ago, WarrenGrad12 said:

Also, the kid who will likely be Warren’s best offensive player didn’t play Friday night due to illness. The one who transferred from Westfield. 

I thought the Westfield kid was #6? He was pretty solid. Maybe there's a transfer rule? Snider's Sean Conley (presuming RB1) didn't play either. 

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

7 combined turnovers…you may have called the margin and low scoring affair but even you didn’t see that coming.  

I'm not at all surprised. Good defenses make big plays, hence the turnovers. Everyone automatically assumes that a turnover is the result of a bad offensive play rather than a good defensive one. There was only one thing that surprised me about this game........well two actually. First, I expected at least one or two touchdowns by special teams or defense. Second, I didn't expect Snider to get shut out. I thought for sure they would see an opportunistic touchdown. 

[temptation]

23 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm not at all surprised. Good defenses make big plays, hence the turnovers. Everyone automatically assumes that a turnover is the result of a bad offensive play rather than a good defensive one. There was only one thing that surprised me about this game........well two actually. First, I expected at least one or two touchdowns by special teams or defense. Second, I didn't expect Snider to get shut out. I thought for sure they would see an opportunistic touchdown. 

C’mon.  

[BTF]

20 minutes ago, temptation said:

C’mon.  

Elaborate on which part you're not understanding.