IU vs Notre Dame

[Bash Riprock]

11 minutes ago, temptation said:

PLENTY of media members scoffed at OSU’s non-conference schedule…same folks that did the same to Michigan’s in 2023.

Flexing about beating Washington and Michigan?  C’mon.

Work on your reading…

Not flexing at all. Media made those wins and schedule negative about IU. Just saying blue bloods would not get that level of beat down for beating those teams. Media ignored how IU and OSU each played Nebraska. They were forced to give IU a little more credit for the Michigan win AFTER they beat OSU.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Flexing about utterly manhandling a team that OSU struggled against. Flexing about beating three common opponants with Oregon by a larger margin than they did. The schedule isn't the greatest, but theres some bright spots. 

My point also stands.  They had their chance to prove they were worthy and they fell flat on their face.

“You only like the transitive property when it fits your narrative.”

This phrase was uttered at me all fall.

Your point would hold more water had we not seen IU and OSU on the field against one another and the Nebraska game was the main data point.

Edited December 14, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

My point also stands.  They had their chance to prove they were worthy and they fell flat on their face.

“You only like the transitive property when it fits your narrative.”

This phrase was uttered at me all fall.

Your point would hold more water had we not seen IU and OSU on the field against one another and the Nebraska game was the main data point.

I bring up transitive property and Sagarin in my debate with you because I know you believe in them. I think transitive property can be a decent indicator, but certainly not the be all end all. It's kind of like Sagarin, 70% legit, 30% pretend. Teams match up differently with one another. Home teams (Ohio State) , trap games (Northern Illinois), injuries, rivalry games (Michigan) , bye weeks.........all can play a factor. But at the end of the day, it was hard for the committee to ignore how Indiana won their games impressively. They earned their way in, whereas Alabama did not. 

[temptation]

9 minutes ago, BTF said:

I bring up transitive property and Sagarin in my debate with you because I know you believe in them. I think transitive property can be a decent indicator, but certainly not the be all end all. It's kind of like Sagarin, 70% legit, 30% pretend. Teams match up differently with one another. Home teams (Ohio State) , trap games (Northern Illinois), injuries, rivalry games (Michigan) , bye weeks.........all can play a factor. But at the end of the day, it was hard for the committee to ignore how Indiana won their games impressively. They earned their way in, whereas Alabama did not. 

Can’t say I disagree but since you brought up Alabama, gimme a hypothetical point spread between IU and the Tide.

[BTF]

Just now, temptation said:

Can’t say I disagree but since you brought up Alabama, gimme a hypothetical point spread between IU and the Tide.

Which Alabama team shows up? The one that beat Georgia or the one that lost to Oklahoma and Vanderbilt?

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Which Alabama team shows up? The one that beat Georgia or the one that lost to Oklahoma and Vanderbilt?

That’s not how Vegas works.

FYI, Vegas has UGA as a 6.5 point favorite against IU in a potential neutral field matchup which is pretty close to what Sagarin says also.

Sagarin has Bama around a 4 point favorite over IU on a neutral field.

Edited December 14, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

That’s not how Vegas works.

FYI, Vegas has UGA as a 6.5 point favorite against IU in a potential neutral field matchup which is pretty close to what Sagarin says also.

Sagarin has Bama around a 4 point favorite over IU on a neutral field.

That may be the case, but I don't trust DeBoer against Cignetti. I'd probably just refrain from betting on that game. Vegas is basing their spread on the number of four and five star players playing for the Tide. But damn, something is missing in Tuscaloosa. No way Cignetti gets routed by the Sooners they way DeBoer did. 

The committee made the right choice. No one wants to see a three loss team with inconsistancy issues. If you lose three games, you lose your right to compete for a championship. Hell, I'd rather see a one loss MAC team get their opportunity to showcase themselves on the big stage. But tragically, that will never happen. 

[PHJIrish]

17 hours ago, Bobref said:

Haters gonna’ hate.

They hate us … because they ain’t us.

😂🤣😅

LIKE!

[PHJIrish]

It's kind of a badge of honor to receive so much hate.  Three pages, or so, of ND love and hate ain't all bad.😉

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

That may be the case, but I don't trust DeBoer against Cignetti. I'd probably just refrain from betting on that game. Vegas is basing their spread on the number of four and five star players playing for the Tide. But damn, something is missing in Tuscaloosa. No way Cignetti gets routed by the Sooners they way DeBoer did. 

The committee made the right choice. No one wants to see a three loss team with inconsistancy issues. If you lose three games, you lose your right to compete for a championship. Hell, I'd rather see a one loss MAC team get their opportunity to showcase themselves on the big stage. But tragically, that will never happen. 

You don’t trust the guy who has a much more talented roster and is 113-15 in his career as a head coach huh?  The guy who took over a sub .500 Washington team and took them to the national championship.  The guy who beat TEN ranked team (10 more than Cignetti I might add) in just two seasons in Seattle.

Curt Cignetti’s biggest career win is over a rebuilding 7-5 Michigan team.

And I get accused of having rose colored glasses.

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by temptation

[temptation]

1 hour ago, PHJIrish said:

It's kind of a badge of honor to receive so much hate.  Three pages, or so, of ND love and hate ain't all bad.😉

20th century Notre Dame Football:  “We are the most prestigious program in America.  We compete for national titles and boast 7 Heisman winners.”

21st century Notre Dame Football:  “We are the most hated program in America.  We have the most message board haters.”

Shake down the Thunder 

Edited December 14, 2024 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

41 minutes ago, temptation said:

 

Curt Cignetti’s biggest career win is over a rebuilding 7-5 Michigan team.

And I get accused of having rose colored glasses.

 

I'd think he might debate that one.

He took James Madison (a perennial FCS doormat) built their program and took them to the FCS championship game.

He then took the same program from FCS to FBS and made them a share of the conference title in their first season at that level.

I won't even get into what he did at the Div 2 level and how he turned around FCS Elon.

I know its hard for you to get your brain around the fact that coaching can begin before FBS.  

 

Edited December 14, 2024 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I'd think he might debate that one.

He took James Madison (a perennial FCS doormat) built their program and took them to the FCS championship game.

He then took the same program from FCS to FBS and made them a share of the conference title in their first season at that level.

I won't even get into what he did at the Div 2 level and how he turned around FCS Elon.

I know its hard for you to get your brain around the fact that coaching can begin before FBS.  

 

Nah, I said what I said.

 

[PHJIrish]

Thanks for proving my point, temp!😝

[PDB26]

22 hours ago, temptation said:

Tell me more about this 1B tier…

It's pretty damn good, and, who knows, if Michigan hadn't ducked the Buckeyes in 2020 they might even be on a five-gamer.

I stand by what I said, and it's no slight against Michigan––who rightfully won the championship last season. Michigan is a program on the move. Not that they had all that far to go in the first place, but it's also not like they weren't finishing third or worse in their division on multiple occasions within the past 10 seasons.

Those tiers were more of how I see the programs, their athletic departments, and how they've been permitted or chosen to operate. Oregon is probably only there because of the Nike money, as good as they've been since Lanning took over. I think all five of those programs would be consistently competitive with each other if they were in the same league.

[temptation]

3 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

It's pretty damn good, and, who knows, if Michigan hadn't ducked the Buckeyes in 2020 they might even be on a five-gamer.

I stand by what I said, and it's no slight against Michigan––who rightfully won the championship last season. Michigan is a program on the move. Not that they had all that far to go in the first place, but it's also not like they weren't finishing third or worse in their division on multiple occasions within the past 10 seasons.

Those tiers were more of how I see the programs, their athletic departments, and how they've been permitted or chosen to operate. Oregon is probably only there because of the Nike money, as good as they've been since Lanning took over. I think all five of those programs would be consistently competitive with each other if they were in the same league.

Why the past 10 years?

Also, Michigan has chosen to play the game now…look up the story about how they just signed the #1 player in America.

[PDB26]

56 minutes ago, temptation said:

You don’t trust the guy who has a much more talented roster and is 113-15 in his career as a head coach huh?  The guy who took over a sub .500 Washington team and took them to the national championship.  The guy who beat TEN ranked team (10 more than Cignetti I might add) in just two seasons in Seattle.

Curt Cignetti’s biggest career win is over a rebuilding 7-5 Michigan team.

And I get accused of having rose colored glasses.

Agreed, that's crazy talk. Deboer's been successful everywhere he's been.

[PDB26]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Why the past 10 years?

Also, Michigan has chosen to play the game now…look up the story about how they just signed the #1 player in America.

I thought I'd give you a break on the Hoke and Rich Rod years. I know, it's crazy what it took to get a kid from so far away to commit to the program.

Jokes aside, and––I was going to add this in my previous reply––Michigan is clearly moving into the future of the sport. They have shown they have the ability and will to play the NIL game, and they have the right coach. There's no reason to think that they won't consistently compete to win the league.

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

Thanks for proving my point, temp!😝

Might wanna screen shot this one but I am actually rooting for ND in the upcoming playoff.

The IU story is cute and all but I’ve never seen success, along with delusion, go to a fanbase’s head more quickly.

The more I read this thread and listen to Cignetti talk, the more I talk myself into a double digit ND victory.

[BTF]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

You don’t trust the guy who has a much more talented roster and is 113-15 in his career as a head coach huh?  The guy who took over a sub .500 Washington team and took them to the national championship.  The guy who beat TEN ranked team (10 more than Cignetti I might add) in just two seasons in Seattle.

Curt Cignetti’s biggest career win is over a rebuilding 7-5 Michigan team.

And I get accused of having rose colored glasses.

 

Nope, nope, and nope. Having that same record in the SEC or the Big Ten, hell, even the ACC would be a better selling poing for me. Nothing against DeBoer, other than the fact that this is Alabama's worst team in recent memory, I'm just all in on Cignetti. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Nope, nope, and nope. Having that same record in the SEC or the Big Ten, hell, even the ACC would be a better selling poing for me. Nothing against DeBoer, other than the fact that this is Alabama's worst team in recent memory, I'm just all in on Cignetti. 

So lemme get this straight…you need to see more from DeBoer but have seen enough from Cignetti?

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Might wanna screen shot this one but I am actually rooting for ND in the upcoming playoff.

The IU story is cute and all but I’ve never seen success, along with delusion, go to a fanbase’s head more quickly.

How can you blame the IU fan base for being excited for a change? Lol, they've suffered for years.

1 minute ago, temptation said:

So lemme get this straight…you need to see more from DeBoer but have seen enough from Cignetti?

Correct. I've I'm going into battle, I'm picking Cignetti. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

How can you blame the IU fan base for being excited for a change? Lol, they've suffered for years.

Correct. I've I'm going into battle, I'm picking Cignetti. 

Fans take on the personality of their coach and Cignetti’s arrogance is nauseating.  I’ve said that since July.

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

So lemme get this straight…you need to see more from DeBoer but have seen enough from Cignetti?

Cignetti started with nothing and made the playoffs. Deboer started with everything and failed to make the playoffs. Yeah, I'm going with Cignetti. You take DeBoer. 

[BTF]

Just now, temptation said:

Fans take on the personality of their coach and Cignetti’s arrogance is nauseating.  I’ve said that since July.

I didn't like Cignetti at first. I thought, "damn, this guy is arrogant." Then I thought, "can a guy be this arrogant and fail? Is that even possible?" Well, he backed it up. But he still has work to do. Comments like "google me" will be remembered. Pressure is on.