Is the end coming for Harbaugh at Michigan?

[TheStatGuy]

53 minutes ago, temptation said:

Well stated.  Michigan is not Alabama, Clemson or Ohio State but they are also not Nebraska or Tennessee.

If you try to re-tool and rebuild your coaching staff every 5-6 years, you dig yourself an even deeper hole to relevancy.

There are many once proud programs that ignore this fact.

And while I agree that Harbaugh should have accomplished more by now, he took over in the midst of his two main rivals having the best runs in PROGRAM history.  MSU and OSU (and the Big Ten East in general) is/are as good as its ever been.

Third place in the division usually still means you are a top 10-15 team.  There are worse places to be.

Problem is. Michigan's fan base thinks it's at that level still. 

[temptation]

2 hours ago, TheStatGuy said:

Problem is. Michigan's fan base thinks it's at that level still. 

Can't completely disagree but the difference between Michigan and the programs mentioned is that Michigan is still a top 15-20 team annually.  Those others have fallen off the map.

There are really only 4-5 elite programs, then about 25 who compete for the remaining top 10 spots annually.  Michigan is in that second tier despite being the media's favorite punching bag at times.

[Gipper]

3 hours ago, TheStatGuy said:

Problem is. Michigan's fan base thinks it's at that level still. 

They wrong.

[Gipper]

Next man up?  Juwan Howard is having a certain degree of success on the hardwood.  Do you see a Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson stalking the sidelines at the Big House?

 

”I will have a Michigan man coaching a Michigan team.”

 

—Bocephus Schembechler

 

 

[temptation]

48 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Next man up?  Juwan Howard is having a certain degree of success on the hardwood.  Do you see a Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson stalking the sidelines at the Big House?

 

”I will have a Michigan man coaching a Michigan team.”

 

—Bocephus Schembechler

 

 

ZERO chance, and I wish the phrase “Michigan man” would just die already.

Edited November 23, 2020 by temptation

[DE]

1 hour ago, Gipper said:

Next man up?  Juwan Howard is having a certain degree of success on the hardwood.  Do you see a Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson stalking the sidelines at the Big House?

 

”I will have a Michigan man coaching a Michigan team.”

 

—Bocephus Schembechler

 

 

I was thinking Mike Hart.....

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, DE said:

I was thinking Mike Hart.....

Next...

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

ZERO chance, and I wish the phrase “Michigan man” would just die already.

Although I was only half-joking, that statement will transcend time and won’t be going anywhere as Glenn Edward Schembechler was a respected man.   Even Woods Hayes was going to speak at an event right before his death.  I know I’m probably going to catch a lot of hell for this, but he’ll be remembered more positively than Bobby Knight.

[DE]

29 minutes ago, temptation said:

Next...

He wouldn't be my choice, I was mentioning him as someone mentioned Woodson or Howard.

[Gipper]

26 minutes ago, temptation said:

Next...

I still can picture DH with a whistle striking the Heisman  pose...

[BTF]

26 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Although I was only half-joking, that statement will transcend time and won’t be going anywhere as Glenn Edward Schembechler was a respected man.   Even Woods Hayes was going to speak at an event right before his death.  I know I’m probably going to catch a lot of hell for this, but he’ll be remembered more positively than Bobby Knight.

Some will remember him for his temper an tirades. Others will remember him for his multiple championships, graduating his players, and playing by the rules. 

[Gipper]

19 minutes ago, BTF said:

Some will remember him for his temper an tirades. Others will remember him for his multiple championships, graduating his players, and playing by the rules. 

And a policeman in San Juan and a female journalist may have an opinion.

Then there’s Kent Harvey, but I digress....

[BTF]

2 hours ago, Gipper said:

And a policeman in San Juan and a female journalist may have an opinion.

Then there’s Kent Harvey, but I digress....

The San Juan instant was actually pretty funny.

[DE]

13 hours ago, temptation said:

Next...

If Coach is not coaching at UM after this season, what about a guy like Sarkisian?

Kiffin?

Whether some like it or not, his name will be tossed out there.....

Hugh Freeze?  He had a comment just this weekend. He is doing very well at Liberty. 

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, DE said:

If Coach is not coaching at UM after this season, what about a guy like Sarkisian?

Kiffin?

Whether some like it or not, his name will be tossed out there.....

Hugh Freeze?  He had a comment just this weekend. He is doing very well at Liberty. 

Just thinking about Hugh.  He alluded to the fact he was content at Liberty.

 

C’mon man...

[Gipper]

I also would expect the head coach at Coastal Carolina, Jamey Chadwell, to have his name in play.  Also, IU needs to get its checkbook handy as Tom Allen is emerging as a hot commodity.

[temptation]

2 hours ago, DE said:

If Coach is not coaching at UM after this season, what about a guy like Sarkisian?

Kiffin?

Whether some like it or not, his name will be tossed out there.....

Hugh Freeze?  He had a comment just this weekend. He is doing very well at Liberty. 

Baggage on all three.  Sarkisian is a Carroll disciple and has had his run ins with the booze.  

Kiffin's lack of ethics has been widely publicized and Freeze is coming off of a scandal at Ole Miss.

Once again, Michigan will NEVER entertain bringing someone on board with prior convictions.  Whether I agree or not is moot, as it is not even worth entertaining, which lowers the applicant pool significantly, lol.

You can also eliminate anyone (Howard, Woodson, Hart) without head coaching experience or at least NFL experience as a coordinator.

I think a guy like Matt Campbell at Iowa State would be entertaining.  Mario Cristobal at Oregon (though I don't think he would leave) intrigues me a bit too.  Maybe Josh Heupel?  Pat Fitzgerald (though I also think he would not be interested)?

Guys like Chadwell and Allen are not Michigan material and I need to see more long term success before I'd make them a viable candidate for a blue blood job, especially in what's been a wild and crazy 2020.

A coordinator name that is generating some interest in Michigan circles is Joe Brady.

But once again, if Harbaugh gets to 4-4 this year (and maybe even 3-5), they will shuffle the deck chairs, fire Don Brown and make a run at it in 2021, which I firmly believe they should.

[DE]

2 hours ago, Gipper said:

Just thinking about Hugh.  He alluded to the fact he was content at Liberty.

 

C’mon man...

Agreed 100%.  I think it is very wise for his overall well being (after what he and his family went through of his own doing) to stay at Liberty.  And my opinion means nothing here.

Though he did say there is always "that itch" of P5 jobs.

I used to love that phrase until one of the biggest scum bags of all time began/continued to use it.

[DE]

35 minutes ago, temptation said:

Baggage on all three.  Sarkisian is a Carroll disciple and has had his run ins with the booze.  

Kiffin's lack of ethics has been widely publicized and Freeze is coming off of a scandal at Ole Miss.

Once again, Michigan will NEVER entertain bringing someone on board with prior convictions.  Whether I agree or not is moot, as it is not even worth entertaining, which lowers the applicant pool significantly, lol.

You can also eliminate anyone (Howard, Woodson, Hart) without head coaching experience or at least NFL experience as a coordinator.

I think a guy like Matt Campbell at Iowa State would be entertaining.  Mario Cristobal at Oregon (though I don't think he would leave) intrigues me a bit too.  Maybe Josh Heupel?  Pat Fitzgerald (though I also think he would not be interested)?

Guys like Chadwell and Allen are not Michigan material and I need to see more long term success before I'd make them a viable candidate for a blue blood job, especially in what's been a wild and crazy 2020.

A coordinator name that is generating some interest in Michigan circles is Joe Brady.

But once again, if Harbaugh gets to 4-4 this year (and maybe even 3-5), they will shuffle the deck chairs, fire Don Brown and make a run at it in 2021, which I firmly believe they should.

You know way more about UM than i do.....you keep saying never bring in someone with baggage.  Didn't they do that with Rich Rod?  Or is this a new "thing" since after Rich Rod.  Sorry if you already answered it.

Out of the 3 you listed Campbell, Cristobal and Heupel.  I have heard from some ISU fans, he is very happy there (whatever that means) and is more interested in the NFL.  Is his system too much like Harbaughs?  He does have STRONG ties to Ohio.

Can't see Cristobal.  Can see Heupel.

Joe Brady would be very interesting.  What are his recruiting ties?

I would think a guy like Chadwell will need to go to a notch or 2 above CC before he gets a gig like UM.  Maybe a UCF if Heupel got a bigger job.  That type of thing.

[Gipper]

8 minutes ago, DE said:

You know way more about UM than i do.....you keep saying never bring in someone with baggage.  Didn't they do that with Rich Rod?  Or is this a new "thing" since after Rich Rod.  Sorry if you already answered it.

Out of the 3 you listed Campbell, Cristobal and Heupel.  I have heard from some ISU fans, he is very happy there (whatever that means) and is more interested in the NFL.  Is his system too much like Harbaughs?  He does have STRONG ties to Ohio.

Can't see Cristobal.  Can see Heupel.

Joe Brady would be very interesting.  What are his recruiting ties?

I would think a guy like Chadwell will need to go to a notch or 2 above CC before he gets a gig like UM.  Maybe a UCF if Heupel got a bigger job.  That type of thing.

Throw Ryan Day, the coach at Cincinnati (Fickell?) and Florida into the mix as well...

[DE]

1 minute ago, Gipper said:

Throw Ryan Day, the coach at Cincinnati (Fickell?) and Florida into the mix as well...

To go to Michigan?????????????

Or the NFL?

Yes, Luke Fickell is the HFB Coach at Cincinnati.  Dan Mullen is the HFB Coach at Florida.

[Gipper]

3 minutes ago, DE said:

To go to Michigan?????????????

Or the NFL?

Yes, Luke Fickell is the HFB Coach at Cincinnati.  Dan Mullen is the HFB Coach at Florida.

Either.  Although this football season has been anything but normal, there has been some good coaching performances.

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, DE said:

You know way more about UM than i do.....you keep saying never bring in someone with baggage.  Didn't they do that with Rich Rod?  Or is this a new "thing" since after Rich Rod.  Sorry if you already answered it.

Out of the 3 you listed Campbell, Cristobal and Heupel.  I have heard from some ISU fans, he is very happy there (whatever that means) and is more interested in the NFL.  Is his system too much like Harbaughs?  He does have STRONG ties to Ohio.

Can't see Cristobal.  Can see Heupel.

Joe Brady would be very interesting.  What are his recruiting ties?

I would think a guy like Chadwell will need to go to a notch or 2 above CC before he gets a gig like UM.  Maybe a UCF if Heupel got a bigger job.  That type of thing.

They did do that with Rich Rod and (though I could go on and on about outside influences that limited his success there) but they just won't do it again.  It was not a popular hire with the alumni and former players so he was given a short leash.

Michigan could double Campbell's salary as he currently makes $3.5 million.  I think he would at least take a look.

As far as "Harbaugh's system" what is it anyway?  He brought his Stanford "man ball" theory to UM in 2015.  Placed a large emphasis on the TE and methodical running game.  They then lost to OSU in dominating fashion and out thought themselves.  In modern football, you need an offense that can easily score 30 to have a shot.  

With each passing "disappointing" season, they began to change their recruiting philosophy to mirror other spread teams (cough, OSU) and decided to try the "speed in space" concept.  Problem is, they did not initially have the players to run it effectively. 

Now, they do have the personnel, but they are young.  Josh Gattis brought his playbook from Bama and it appears (though its a small sample size) they have their QB for this year.  (They do have a stud from IMG in JJ McCarthy coming in next year however.)

Brady really has no recruiting ties other than the fact that he gets credit for Joe Burrow.  I think he is a long shot, but is a young, enthusiastic guy with big ties to Florida/the southeast.  It is a necessity to recruit that part of the country in order to be successful.

I do think that Allen has done an amazing job at IU but lets pump the brakes a bit.  Teams WILL throw money at him this fall and he HAS to listen, but I think it is a bit premature.  Love his energy, passion and love for his players but I need to see more.

[Gipper]

Just now, temptation said:

They did do that with Rich Rod and (though I could go on and on about outside influences that limited his success there) but they just won't do it again.  It was not a popular hire with the alumni and former players so he was given a short leash.

Michigan could double Campbell's salary as he currently makes $3.5 million.  I think he would at least take a look.

As far as "Harbaugh's system" what is it anyway?  He brought his Stanford "man ball" theory to UM in 2015.  Placed a large emphasis on the TE and methodical running game.  They then lost to OSU in dominating fashion and out thought themselves.  In modern football, you need an offense that can easily score 30 to have a shot.  

With each passing "disappointing" season, they began to change their recruiting philosophy to mirror other spread teams (cough, OSU) and decided to try the "speed in space" concept.  Problem is, they did not initially have the players to run it effectively. 

Now, they do have the personnel, but they are young.  Josh Gattis brought his playbook from Bama and it appears (though its a small sample size) they have their QB for this year.  (They do have a stud from IMG in JJ McCarthy coming in next year however.)

Brady really has no recruiting ties other than the fact that he gets credit for Joe Burrow.  I think he is a long shot, but is a young, enthusiastic guy with big ties to Florida/the southeast.  It is a necessity to recruit that part of the country in order to be successful.

I do think that Allen has done an amazing job at IU but lets pump the brakes a bit.  Teams WILL throw money at him this fall and he HAS to listen, but I think it is a bit premature.  Love his energy, passion and love for his players but I need to see more.

How about some Brady Hoke?

[temptation]

1 minute ago, Gipper said:

Either.  Although this football season has been anything but normal, there has been some good coaching performances.

Michigan looked at Mullen twice before the Harbaugh/Hoke hires. 

If willing, I'd take a LONG look at Muschamp for D coordinator.  That job will DEFINITELY be open this winter.