Class 5A Final - Roughing the kicker, followed by Unsportsmanlike

[gindie]

In this game, there was a Roughing the Kicker call on Zionsville during live play, then an immediate dead ball Unsportsmanlike Conduct call on Cathedral.  I believe (according to the announcers) that both fouls were marked off and then it became 1st and 10 for Cathedral.

Was there a time in the past where it would have been 1st and 25 for Cathedral because their foul was dead ball?  I'm positive I've seen 1st and 25's due to dead ball fouls in the past.  Maybe they were at a different level, though.

[Yuccaguy]

32 minutes ago, gindie said:

In this game, there was a Roughing the Kicker call on Zionsville during live play, then an immediate dead ball Unsportsmanlike Conduct call on Cathedral.  I believe (according to the announcers) that both fouls were marked off and then it became 1st and 10 for Cathedral.

Was there a time in the past where it would have been 1st and 25 for Cathedral because their foul was dead ball?  I'm positive I've seen 1st and 25's due to dead ball fouls in the past.  Maybe they were at a different level, though.

NEVER!  

By rule, all series start 1st and 10.  

[Bobref]

9 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

NEVER!  

By rule, all series start 1st and 10.  

 

9 hours ago, gindie said:

In this game, there was a Roughing the Kicker call on Zionsville during live play, then an immediate dead ball Unsportsmanlike Conduct call on Cathedral.  I believe (according to the announcers) that both fouls were marked off and then it became 1st and 10 for Cathedral.

Was there a time in the past where it would have been 1st and 25 for Cathedral because their foul was dead ball?  I'm positive I've seen 1st and 25's due to dead ball fouls in the past.  Maybe they were at a different level, though.

We can still have 1st and 25, but the foul must occur after the chains have been set and the ball made ready for play on 1st down. Here’s an example:

1st and 10 for Team A at midfield. Team A comes to the line for the play. The play clock is running. As the left OT gets down into his stance he says to the B player across from him, in a loud voice, “Yo mama's so fat, when she fell I didn't laugh, but the sidewalk cracked up.” The umpire hears this and throws a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct on the A player. After enforcement, it’s 1st and 25 for team A at their own 35.

[DE]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

 

We can still have 1st and 25, but the foul must occur after the chains have been set and the ball made ready for play on 1st down. Here’s an example:

1st and 10 for Team A at midfield. Team A comes to the line for the play. The play clock is running. As the left OT gets down into his stance he says to the B player across from him, in a loud voice, “Yo mama's so fat, when she fell I didn't laugh, but the sidewalk cracked up.” The umpire hears this and throws a flag for unsportsmanlike conduct on the A player. After enforcement, it’s 1st and 25 for team A at their own 35.

Thin skinned ref. 😉

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, DE said:

Thin skinned ref. 😉

The unsportsmanlike conduct was because the joke was so bad.

[DE]

Just now, Bobref said:

The unsportsmanlike conduct was because the joke was so bad.

My thought exactly.  lol.

[DE]

7 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The unsportsmanlike conduct was because the joke was so bad.

Trying to send you a DM.  Appears your inbox is full.

Had a question for you.  Thanks.

[Bobref]

7 minutes ago, DE said:

Trying to send you a DM.  Appears your inbox is full.

Had a question for you.  Thanks.

Thanks for the heads up. The messages pile up this time of year. I’m on it.

[DE]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Thanks for the heads up. The messages pile up this time of year. I’m on it.

You are welcome.

[WCCtoSAC]

Guessing this was a judgement call by the official but, looking at the replay it appeared to me the unsportsmanlike action occurred while the ball was still live?  The punter got up right away and immediately got in the kids face.  In that case, we're looking at offsetting penalties and replay of 4th day.  Which could have been very beneficial to Zionsville as I believe Cathedral scored on that drive.

[Bobref]

26 minutes ago, WCCtoSAC said:

Guessing this was a judgement call by the official but, looking at the replay it appeared to me the unsportsmanlike action occurred while the ball was still live?  The punter got up right away and immediately got in the kids face.  In that case, we're looking at offsetting penalties and replay of 4th day.  Which could have been very beneficial to Zionsville as I believe Cathedral scored on that drive.

Incorrect. An unsportsmanlike or nonplayer foul is always enforced as a dead ball foul, regardless of whether it occurs during or after the down. An unsportsmanlike or nonplayer foul is never paired with an opponent’s live ball foul to create a double foul, requiring offset and replay. This play was handled correctly by the crew.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Bobref

[JustRules]

25 minutes ago, WCCtoSAC said:

Guessing this was a judgement call by the official but, looking at the replay it appeared to me the unsportsmanlike action occurred while the ball was still live?  The punter got up right away and immediately got in the kids face.  In that case, we're looking at offsetting penalties and replay of 4th day.  Which could have been very beneficial to Zionsville as I believe Cathedral scored on that drive.

Unsportsmanlike conduct fouls in NFHS are treated as dead ball fouls even if they are live. So the result is the same. In NCAA you would be correct though. They changed that several years ago to cut down on the number of high stepping or taunting plays that were happening on TDs. They made it a live ball foul so it would take the TD off the board and enforce from the spot. It seems to have worked because you don't see that very often any more. It isn't a major problem in HS football so the rules committee hasn't felt a need to change the rule.