Guest DT Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 The Duneland Conference in Northwest Indiana is probably the most insular, resistant to change high school football conference in the state. Ive often likened the DAC to a high end country club, where admission is expensive and outsiders are frowned upon. While the DAC has been building this insular, elitist approach to high school athletics, its competitiors from other regions around the state, and in particular central Indiana, have left the Duneland schools in the dust and sucking for air. The Duneland is no longer a threat to win a big school state championship in the major revenue sports. Lets face it. It is what it is. The DAC fell off the football map in the 90s, and the conference has never been a hoops threat in the highest classification. The gap is getting wider between the central Indiana powers and the Duneland Conference. Expansion and new blood is the only way the DAC will improve from within, and eventually become a factor in the football and basketball post season state tournaments. The DAC 12 proposal features expansion to the west with the additions of 5A schools Hammond Central and Hammond Morton, and eastern expansion to bring in 6A schools Penn and Elkhart. For football, we recommend a divisional lineup as follows, featuring 5 divisional games, 3 divisional crossovers and one week open for non conference matchups. DAC West Hammond Central 5A Hammond Morton 6A Merrillville 6A Lake Central 6A Portage 6A Crown Point 6A DAC East Elkhart 6A Penn 6A Valpo 5A Laporte 5A Chesterton 5A Michigan City 5A The conference is balanced geographically and by enrollment. There are those who will argue that the Hammond schools do not fit the demographic or socio economic DNA of the current DAC. We agree and contend that the DACs existing markers are at the core of its competitive problems. Diversity ethnically, socio economically and demographically will push competition in the newly expanded conference to a higher level. The Northwest Crossroads has been suggested as a potential new home for the Hammond schools. Truthfully, NCC schools are either contracting enrollment or treading water. From a size perspective, HC and HM and their 1800 students are a better fit in The DAC. Morton, Elkhart and Penn bring state ranked football programs into the new DAC. Hammond Central is an elite statewide basketball power. The old DAC needs a fresh start. New coaches and better facilities are not enough to raise the competitive bar. New outside blood is the answer that will push Duneland schools to improve from within, creating greater opportunities downstate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCTigerFan07 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 It just makes too much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said: It just makes too much sense. Let's have a beer this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 As with all other conference realignment discussions, a reality check requires that we pay some attention to the effect this proposed realignment would have on the total sports programs at the schools affected. Not saying that would be prohibitive in this case, because I don’t know. From a football perspective, it’s exciting on a local and regional scale. But this move, standing alone, changes nothing in 6A. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Seems compelling for football but don't see the need for expansion if a) you don't play everyone in your conference on a yearly basis b) a true conference champion isn't crowned. Would the new scheduling format with the newly formed divisions be that more advantageous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Seems compelling for football but don't see the need for expansion if a) you don't play everyone in your conference on a yearly basis b) a true conference champion isn't crowned. Would the new scheduling format with the newly formed divisions be that more advantageous? Neither the North Central Conference nor the Atlantic Coast Conference play a full round robin football schedule. Both proudly crown conference champions, which are recognized by all schools in the respective leagues. The objective here is to "push" the DAC champion to a level higher than the conference championship. Bringing in 3 state ranked football programs will undoubtedly raise the competitive bar in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, DT said: Neither the North Central Conference nor the Atlantic Coast Conference play a full round robin football schedule. Both proudly crown conference champions, which are recognized by all schools in the respective leagues. The objective here is to "push" the DAC champion to a level higher than the conference championship. Bringing in 3 state ranked football programs will undoubtedly raise the competitive bar in the league. The ACC plays a championship game at the end of the year between the two division winners that crowns a true conference champion. I don’t think adding Penn to the DAC does anything to raise the DAC’s profile. There’s 2-3 teams in the DAC that in any given year has a rays chance of making it to LOS, that doesn’t change adding Penn. Play your 7 game DAC schedule if you’re Merrillville, Valpo, or Michigan City and then add Penn and/or Elkhart as one of your non-conference opponents. Valpo essentially already does this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldunclemark Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, DT said: The Duneland Conference in Northwest Indiana is probably the most insular, resistant to change high school football conference in the state. Ive often likened the DAC to a high end country club, where admission is expensive and outsiders are frowned upon. While the DAC has been building this insular, elitist approach to high school athletics, its competitiors from other regions around the state, and in particular central Indiana, have left the Duneland schools in the dust and sucking for air. The Duneland is no longer a threat to win a big school state championship in the major revenue sports. Lets face it. It is what it is. The DAC fell off the football map in the 90s, and the conference has never been a hoops threat in the highest classification. The gap is getting wider between the central Indiana powers and the Duneland Conference. Expansion and new blood is the only way the DAC will improve from within, and eventually become a factor in the football and basketball post season state tournaments. The DAC 12 proposal features expansion to the west with the additions of 5A schools Hammond Central and Hammond Morton, and eastern expansion to bring in 6A schools Penn and Elkhart. For football, we recommend a divisional lineup as follows, featuring 5 divisional games, 3 divisional crossovers and one week open for non conference matchups. DAC West Hammond Central 5A Hammond Morton 6A Merrillville 6A Lake Central 6A Portage 6A Crown Point 6A DAC East Elkhart 6A Penn 6A Valpo 5A Laporte 5A Chesterton 5A Michigan City 5A The conference is balanced geographically and by enrollment. There are those who will argue that the Hammond schools do not fit the demographic or socio economic DNA of the current DAC. We agree and contend that the DACs existing markers are at the core of its competitive problems. Diversity ethnically, socio economically and demographically will push competition in the newly expanded conference to a higher level. The Northwest Crossroads has been suggested as a potential new home for the Hammond schools. Truthfully, NCC schools are either contracting enrollment or treading water. From a size perspective, HC and HM and their 1800 students are a better fit in The DAC. Morton, Elkhart and Penn bring state ranked football programs into the new DAC. Hammond Central is an elite statewide basketball power. The old DAC needs a fresh start. New coaches and better facilities are not enough to raise the competitive bar. New outside blood is the answer that will push Duneland schools to improve from within, creating greater opportunities downstate. DT; As you know the Hammond schools have little chance to compete against Crown Point, Merrillville and Lake Central in football. Morton was state rated in 4A And DAC teams are not going to drop natural rivals CP-Lowell, LC-Munster, Merrillville-Andrean to play Hammond or Elkhart. Why would they? Edited May 10, 2021 by oldunclemark spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: The ACC plays a championship game at the end of the year between the two division winners that crowns a true conference champion. I don’t think adding Penn to the DAC does anything to raise the DAC’s profile. There’s 2-3 teams in the DAC that in any given year has a rays chance of making it to LOS, that doesn’t change adding Penn. Play your 7 game DAC schedule if you’re Merrillville, Valpo, or Michigan City and then add Penn and/or Elkhart as one of your non-conference opponents. Valpo essentially already does this. It doesn't change anything? Unless my math is off, now there would be 3-4 teams instead of 2-3. Bottom line...............it's a great idea and one step closer to fielding a northern 6a champion. Adding Penn and Elkhart to the same conference as Valpo and Merrillville = a fight with the HCC as the second strongest conference in the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, BTF said: It doesn't change anything? Unless my math is off, now there would be 3-4 teams instead of 2-3. Bottom line...............it's a great idea and one step closer to fielding a northern 6a champion. Adding Penn and Elkhart to the same conference as Valpo and Merrillville = a fight with the HCC as the second strongest conference in the state. You can do a DAC contraction and say the same thing. It’d actually be true. Valpo, Merrillville, MC, and let’s say Crown Point would all be better off leaving the DAC and joining Penn and/or Elkhart to make a 5-6 team conference. Would give each school much more flexibility at adding quality opponents to the schedule. I see no advantageous gain being in a conference in this day and age given our postseason format. Being in a conference is nothing more than a schedule placeholder. Winning your conference doesn’t reward your seeding, opponent, or venue location come tournament time. Unless you play in a conference that has decent parity (MIC/HCC/SIAC), expansion makes little to no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: You can do a DAC contraction and say the same thing. It’d actually be true. Valpo, Merrillville, MC, and let’s say Crown Point would all be better off leaving the DAC and joining Penn and/or Elkhart to make a 5-6 team conference. Would give each school much more flexibility at adding quality opponents to the schedule. I see no advantageous gain being in a conference in this day and age given our postseason format. Being in a conference is nothing more than a schedule placeholder. Winning your conference doesn’t reward your seeding, opponent, or venue location come tournament time. Unless you play in a conference that has decent parity (MIC/HCC/SIAC), expansion makes little to no sense. Adding programs like Penn and Elkhart makes sense for any conference, including the MIC and HCC. I think you are overthinking things. The more quality programs in a conference, the better overall quality of play. It really is that simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, BTF said: Adding programs like Penn and Elkhart makes sense for any conference, including the MIC and HCC. I think you are overthinking things. The more quality programs in a conference, the better overall quality of play. It really is that simple. I’m not overthinking anything. How does DT’s new DAC alignment benefit a school like Merrillville? None of Merrillville’s DAC East divisional opponents prepare Merrillville for a 6A Indy team and given there’s only 3 crossover games, there’s no guarantee Merrillville plays Valpo/Elkhart/Penn in any given year and in certain years may miss all three together. Take DT’s DAC East proposal and replace Chesterton with Merrillville, and you still have 3-4 LOS hopefuls but in a conference with half the teams. Gives you 4 open weeks to schedule better opponents. It really is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Footballking16 said: I’m not overthinking anything. How does DT’s new DAC alignment benefit a school like Merrillville? None of Merrillville’s DAC East divisional opponents prepare Merrillville for a 6A Indy team and given there’s only 3 crossover games, there’s no guarantee Merrillville plays Valpo/Elkhart/Penn in any given year and in certain years may miss all three together. Take DT’s DAC East proposal and replace Chesterton with Merrillville, and you still have 3-4 LOS hopefuls but in a conference with half the teams. Gives you 4 open weeks to schedule better opponents. It really is that simple. Crossover games would be determined by the schools, not some kind of lottery. I would imagine the strongest play the strongest and the weakest play the weakest. I don't see any reason why Merrillville couldn't schedule Valpo, Penn, and Elkhart every year........or two of them at the minimum. I think you are overcomplicating this whole idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BTF said: Crossover games would be determined by the schools, not some kind of lottery. I would imagine the strongest play the strongest and the weakest play the weakest. I don't see any reason why Merrillville couldn't schedule Valpo, Penn, and Elkhart every year........or two of them at the minimum. I think you are overcomplicating this whole idea. What is the point of being in a 12 team conference if you’re never going to play 3-4 of the teams then lol? Quality over quantity in this scenario. You’re better off forming a 6 team conference in which you’re playing quality opponent week in and week out. Edited May 10, 2021 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: What is the point of being in a 12 team conference if you’re never going to play 3-4 of the teams then lol? Quality over quantity in this scenario. You’re better off forming a 6 team conference in which you’re playing quality opponent week in and week out. Ease of scheduling. In DT's scenario, a program only has to go searching for one game. In your scenario, they would have to find four games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, BTF said: Ease of scheduling. In DT's scenario, a program only has to go searching for one game. In your scenario, they would have to find four games. DAC teams already have to find two non-conference opponents as is. Adding two more isn’t nearly as difficult as you think considering most the current DAC schools are located in a metropolitan area with nearly 10 million people. I think you’re just arguing for the sake of argument at this point. There’s no logical reason where joining a 12 team conference with the intention of never scheduling a fourth of the members makes any sense. A 6 team conference of: Penn Elkhart Valpo Michigan City Merrillville La Porte is just as strong as a 12 team conference (with those 6 included) minus the deadweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldunclemark said: DT; As you know the Hammond schools have little chance to compete against Crown Point, Merrillville and Lake Central in football. Morton was state rated in 4A And DAC teams are not going to drop natural rivals CP-Lowell, LC-Munster, Merrillville-Andrean to play Hammond or Elkhart. Why would they? Why are we automatically selling the Hammond schools short on competitiveness? Are Mortons 1800 kids significantly less than Michigan Citys 1900, or Laportes 1950, or Merrillvilles 2200 or Chesterton and Valpos 2100? If you put Morton football on the field today against Crown Point, Lake Central or Portage, who would you pick to win? Is there a Duneland school that could compete with Hammond High basketball? Does Hammond Central not have a golden oportunity to build a whole new program with a new staff and brand new facilities and their 1800 students? Frankly, I believe there is institutional bias and discrimination against City of Hammond in The Region. Hammond is lumped together with Gary and East Chicago and considered "ghetto." It's BS. What the city has done with its decision to consolidate and build anew is progressive and thoughtful and will undoubtedly draw new families into the city. If NCC towns Highland, Munster, Hobart and formerly Griffith think that they are "too good" or "above" Hammond, to hell with them. Its their loss. Those towns were built on the backs of migrants and workers from EC, Gary and Hammond. There would be no Suburban Region without The Big 3. Edited May 11, 2021 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) With regards to scheduling, we would assign 1 automatic crossover matchup annually to extend or develop new rivalries : Matchups as follows : Merrillville - Valpo Penn - Lake Central Crown Point - Elkhart Hammond Central - Michigan City Hammond Morton - Laporte Portage - Chesterton The remaining two crossover games would rotate annually. Nuetral Site Matchups Saturdays would be used intermittently during the season to hold Nuetral site games at Ames Field In Michigan City Penn vs LC and Elkhart vs Crown Point would be the opening doubleheader DAC West Hammond Central 5A Hammond Morton 6A Merrillville 6A Lake Central 6A Portage 6A Crown Point 6A DAC East Elkhart 6A Penn 6A Valpo 5A Laporte 5A Chesterton 5A Michigan City 5A Edited May 11, 2021 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, DT said: With regards to scheduling, we would assign 1 automatic crossover matchup annually to extend or develop new rivalries : Matchups as follows : Merrillville - Valpo Penn - Lake Central Crown Point - Elkhart Hammond Central - Michigan City Hammond Morton - Laporte Portage - Chesterton The remaining two crossover games would rotate annually. Nuetral Site Matchups Saturdays would be used intermittently during the season to hold Nuetral site games at Ames Field In Michigan City Penn vs LC and Elkhart vs Crown Point would be the opening doubleheader DAC West Hammond Central 5A Hammond Morton 6A Merrillville 6A Lake Central 6A Portage 6A Crown Point 6A DAC East Elkhart 6A Penn 6A Valpo 5A Laporte 5A Chesterton 5A Michigan City 5A Why would Penn join that conference under that scenario? They already play Valpo every year anyway, joining the DAC to gain a new opponent in Lake Central and play Merrillville/Crown Point every 3 years doesn’t prepare them for any Indy teams. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Why would Penn join that conference under that scenario? They already play Valpo every year anyway, joining the DAC to gain a new opponent in Lake Central and play Merrillville/Crown Point every 3 years doesn’t prepare them for any Indy teams. Sorry. You are wrong. Penn will see one 6A opponent on its 2021 schedule. Under the DAC 12 arrangement, they will see 3 or 4 and their 5A opponents will be a significant upgrade over current foes If you dont think Penn's NIC schedule filled with 2A, 3A and 4A schools and bottom tier 5A doesnt impact their competitive profile, youve got your head in the sand. And Penn still has an open datre to schedule a PP power like Cathedral or St X PENN KINGSMEN Coach: Cory Yeoman, 185-45 in 19th year at school DATE OPPONENT EASTERN TIME OA 0.0, DA 0.0 Aug. 20 at Valparaiso 5A 8:00 pm Aug. 27 LaPorte 5A 7:30 pm Sep. 3 at Indianapolis Cathedral 5A 7:30 pm Sep. 10 St. Xavier 7:00 pm Sep. 17 Elkhart 6A © 7:00 pm Sep. 24 at Mishawaka Marian 3A © 7:00 pm Oct. 1 South Bend St. Joseph 4A © 7:00 pm Oct. 8 at New Prairie 4A © 7:30 pm Oct. 15 South Bend Adams 5A © 7:00 pm ©NORTHERN INDIANA CONFERENCE GAME Edited May 11, 2021 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 We would also consider adopting the Hoosier Conference model, where we leave Week 9 open for Championship Week to determine the conference title. Schools would line up east vs west by standings : E1 vs W1 E2 vs W2 E3 vs W3 E4 vs W4 E5 vs W5 E6 vs W6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, DT said: You are wrong. Penn will see one 6A opponent on its 2021 schedule. Under the DAC 12 arrangement, they will see 3 or 4 and their 5A opponents will be a significant upgrade over current foes If you dont think Penn's NIC schedule filled with 2A, 3A and 4A schools and bottom tier 5A doesnt impact their competitive profile, youve got your head in the sand. Penn plays Valpo, Cathedral, and St. X next year. Those 3 games alone prepare Penn better than any year they stand to be in the DAC under your proposal. Your proposal has Penn in a division with all 5A teams with the exception of Elkhart who they already play anyway and a guaranteed crossover game with 6A Lake Central who wouldn’t beat most 4A teams. It’s a huge demotion and disservice to Penn under that alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) Penn - Valpo will become much bigger and more important when it is moved back on the schedule and helps determine the East Division champion. Penn currently currenly plays no one on the back half of the schedule. That kills their momentum and preparation for the post season. Michigan City, Laporte, Chesterton and Lake Central and either Merrillville or Crown Point replace their smaller NIC opponents. Huge schedule upgrade Edited May 11, 2021 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, DT said: You are wrong. Penn will see one 6A opponent on its 2021 schedule. Under the DAC 12 arrangement, they will see 3 or 4 and their 5A opponents will be a significant upgrade over current foes If you dont think Penn's NIC schedule filled with 2A, 3A and 4A schools and bottom tier 5A doesnt impact their competitive profile, youve got your head in the sand. And Penn still has an open datre to schedule a PP power like Cathedral or St X PENN KINGSMEN Coach: Cory Yeoman, 185-45 in 19th year at school DATE OPPONENT EASTERN TIME OA 0.0, DA 0.0 Aug. 20 at Valparaiso 5A 8:00 pm Aug. 27 LaPorte 5A 7:30 pm Sep. 3 at Indianapolis Cathedral 5A 7:30 pm Sep. 10 St. Xavier 7:00 pm Sep. 17 Elkhart 6A © 7:00 pm Sep. 24 at Mishawaka Marian 3A © 7:00 pm Oct. 1 South Bend St. Joseph 4A © 7:00 pm Oct. 8 at New Prairie 4A © 7:30 pm Oct. 15 South Bend Adams 5A © 7:00 pm ©NORTHERN INDIANA CONFERENCE GAME Penn plays one 3A opponent and that one 3A opponent finished higher rated in Sagarin than any team Penn would stand to play in your new proposed alignment, with the exception of Valpo and Elkhart who they play annually anyway. Penn in their current conference playing: St. X Cathedral Valpo Elkhart Mishawaka Marian Is a tougher schedule than Penn stands to play in any year under your DAC proposal without question. No contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DT said: Penn - Valpo will become much bigger and more important when it is moved back on the schedule and helps determine the East Division champion. Penn currently currenly plays no one on the back half of the schedule. That kills their momentum and preparation for the post season. Michigan City, Laporte, Chesterton and Lake Central and either Merrillville or Crown Point replace their smaller NIC opponents. Huge schedule upgrade Without question a massive demotion and a huge disservice to a team trying to win 6A. Giving up Cathedral, St. X, Mishawaka, and Marian to play Lake Central, Chesterton, La Porte doesn’t make any sense. Edited May 11, 2021 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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