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IU and Purdue Missed Badly Not Offering a Scholly to the Warhorse......


Bash Riprock

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

This is a perfect case of a kid getting great advice and going exactly to the school that fits his skill level.

Would you rather be Carson rolling up the yards and TDs at BSU or Charlie sitting and playing special teams at IU?

 

Neither kid is a Big Ten RB.  

One got good guidance, the other didnt.

 

 

This is a good point.  Maybe still too early to tell though.  

Would Spegal benefit from a move to a smaller school?  Is it an option he is even entertaining?

 

Edited by temptation
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2 hours ago, Gipper said:

Exactly.  Let's not take ourselves too seriously.

Dripping with irony.

2 hours ago, HHF said:

This is a perfect case of a kid getting great advice and going exactly to the school that fits his skill level.

 

No, that's not the case at all.

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4 minutes ago, Grover said:

Again with the childish taunts.  You're better than that when you try to be.  

Actually the success he is having as a freshman (turned 19 last week) is a good argument that he might be capable of playing in a better program.

 

  • “IU & Purdue missed out.  They blew it.  Not the first time and it won't be the last but Steele could have been theirs and they passed.”

You’ve come a long way in two days.

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14 minutes ago, temptation said:

He’s averaging 65 yards per game NINE games into his collegiate career.

We know you love your son Mrs. Steele but let’s pump the brakes on his Heisman campaign.

The only beef Ive ever had with the CG football operation is that back in the ealy to mid 2000s, CG sent a lot of kids to IU and PU that at best were MAC level players.  

 

7 minutes ago, Grover said:

Again with the childish taunts.  You're better than that when you try to be.  

Actually the success he is having as a freshman (turned 19 last week) is a good argument that he might be capable of playing in a better program.

Or maybe the experts that do this for a living have placed him exactly where he can have an opportunity to excel.  If there is one problem with the CG football program it is its history of placing kids in D1 programs and putting them in over their heads.  (Edmondson/Nussbaum/Ladd/Van Alstyne/McClurg/McClurg/Luallen/Skelton/Hale/Zwitt)

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55 minutes ago, temptation said:

“IU & Purdue missed out.  They blew it.  Not the first time and it won't be the last but Steele could have been theirs and they passed.”

You’ve come a long way in two days.

Nope.  I haven't changed my position even a little.  Just not sure why you feel threatened or offended by it.

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55 minutes ago, HHF said:

The only beef Ive ever had with the CG football operation is that back in the ealy to mid 2000s, CG sent a lot of kids to IU and PU that at best were MAC level players.  

 

Or maybe the experts that do this for a living have placed him exactly where he can have an opportunity to excel.  If there is one problem with the CG football program it is its history of placing kids in D1 programs and putting them in over their heads.  (Edmondson/Nussbaum/Ladd/Van Alstyne/McClurg/McClurg/Luallen/Skelton/Hale/Zwitt)

This is pretty funny.  On one hand you say the experts who do this for a living know what they're doing but then you talk about CG kids who didn't excel where the experts put them.  So is it okay to second-guess the experts or not?  Rather than just make blanket statements I could tell you the whys and why nots of each of the kids you mentioned but I doubt you are interested in the real stories so I won't bother.

Van Alstyne in over his head...  LOL.

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4 hours ago, Grover said:

This is pretty funny.  On one hand you say the experts who do this for a living know what they're doing but then you talk about CG kids who didn't excel where the experts put them.  So is it okay to second-guess the experts or not?  Rather than just make blanket statements I could tell you the whys and why nots of each of the kids you mentioned but I doubt you are interested in the real stories so I won't bother.

Van Alstyne in over his head...  LOL.

VA is the only one of the group who had a decent college career.  All others ere MAC level players and were  in over their heads at P5 D1 level.  There are no stories or excuses to make  .  It is what it is.  Carson is where he belongs.  Hopefully some idiot will not convince him to go to the transfer portal convincing him that he can play at Alabama or Michigan.

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The way I see it, success on the high school level doesn’t always translate to success on the college level.  The two are entirely different.  Mr. Steele is getting a quality education and the opportunity to star for the next 4 years at Ball State.

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On 11/5/2021 at 3:07 PM, temptation said:

This is a good point.  Maybe still too early to tell though.  

Would Spegal benefit from a move to a smaller school?  Is it an option he is even entertaining?

 

I was a little surprised Spegal turned away from the Army offer.  He would be a perfect fit at FB in the Army offense.

But, I get not everyone wants the academy as their college experience and wants to serve the 5 years active duty following graduation.

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On 11/5/2021 at 4:55 PM, HHF said:

The only beef Ive ever had with the CG football operation is that back in the ealy to mid 2000s, CG sent a lot of kids to IU and PU that at best were MAC level players.  

 

Or maybe the experts that do this for a living have placed him exactly where he can have an opportunity to excel.  If there is one problem with the CG football program it is its history of placing kids in D1 programs and putting them in over their heads.  (Edmondson/Nussbaum/Ladd/Van Alstyne/McClurg/McClurg/Luallen/Skelton/Hale/Zwitt)

Not sure what the early to mid 2000's has to do with a current player in 2021.....can you articulate the relationship?

Van Alstyne?  One of the top ranked LB's in the country that was committeed to Notre Dame before he flipped to Michigan.  Absolutely made an impact at Michigan, suffering 2 major knee injuries.

Adam McClurg...started his senior year at Indiana and I believe some of his junior year.  Had 99 tackles in 2007 (11.5 for a loss) and 58 in 2006.

Joel Hale...you mean the young man that lettered every year at Ohio State and had offers from Michigan, Penn State, Florida, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, etc??  Indiana Mr. Defensive football?  Would he had better stats at Indiana, Cincy or Purdue...perhaps.  But that young man has nothing to apologize for....

You left out Adam Finley...heck of a punter and placekicker for Michigan.....and

JB Paxson chose baseball over football....put that young man was headed to Purdue and tried to flip to Tennessee and Tiller wouldn't oblige.  This helped to send him down the baseball path.  Tremendous athlete.

CG nor any high school doesn't place its kids in college programs.....they are recruited and offered.....

 

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1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Not sure what the early to mid 2000's has to do with a current player in 2021.....can you articulate the relationship?

Van Alstyne?  One of the top ranked LB's in the country that was committeed to Notre Dame before he flipped to Michigan.  Absolutely made an impact at Michigan, suffering 2 major knee injuries.

Adam McClurg...started his senior year at Indiana and I believe some of his junior year.  Had 99 tackles in 2007 (11.5 for a loss) and 58 in 2006.

Joel Hale...you mean the young man that lettered every year at Ohio State and had offers from Michigan, Penn State, Florida, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, etc??  Indiana Mr. Defensive football?  Would he had better stats at Indiana, Cincy or Purdue...perhaps.  But that young man has nothing to apologize for....

You left out Adam Finley...heck of a punter and placekicker for Michigan.....and

JB Paxson chose baseball over football....put that young man was headed to Purdue and tried to flip to Tennessee and Tiller wouldn't oblige.  This helped to send him down the baseball path.  Tremendous athlete.

CG nor any high school doesn't place its kids in college programs.....they are recruited and offered.....

 

Coach Moore has had a very close relationship with IU since he arrived in Greenwood.  No doubt he was able to pull some strings and get some of his marginal kids into IU and the BIG Ten based on his personal relationships with the University and the staff.  

I think you are missing my point.  I'm all about these kids getting as many opportunities as possible.  What bothers me is when I see a very successful high school athlete have a very poor and unfulfilling college career because he made the wrong choice.  Many of the CG players saw very little playing time at IU, and were on the roster of what was by far the worst team and program in the conference at that time.  Several of the players you mentioned might have been 3 and 4 year starters and played on highly successful teams had they stayed in their lane and gone to a more appropriate school that provided a better fit in terms of competition.  

I was completely floored when Luallen was offered by GT.  he looked more like a U Indy or Marian level player in my view.  The results proved my point.  

Swann and Tidd have had nice careers.  Several have.,  but back in the days I referenced, many of those kids either never played or saw minimal playing time on a terrible football team.

As much as I liked Paxson, I believe he would have failed at either PU or UT.  Too small.  I met him personally once and was surprised at his lack of height and bulk.  

Its great to watch a kid like Steele flourish at Ball State.  It sucks to see a kid like Spiegel sit on the bench at IU when he could have had a 5000 yard rushing career a level down.

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, HHF said:

Coach Moore has had a very close relationship with IU since he arrived in Greenwood.  No doubt he was able to pull some strings and get some of his marginal kids into IU and the BIG Ten based on his personal relationships with the University and the staff.  

I think you are missing my point.  I'm all about these kids getting as many opportunities as possible.  What bothers me is when I see a very successful high school athlete have a very poor and unfulfilling college career because he made the wrong choice.  Many of the CG players saw very little playing time at IU, and were on the roster of what was by far the worst team and program in the conference at that time.  Several of the players you mentioned might have been 3 and 4 year starters and played on highly successful teams had they stayed in their lane and gone to a more appropriate school that provided a better fit in terms of competition.  

I was completely floored when Luallen was offered by GT.  he looked more like a U Indy or Marian level player in my view.  The results proved my point.  

Swann and Tidd have had nice careers.  Several have.,  but back in the days I referenced, many of those kids either never played or saw minimal playing time on a terrible football team.

As much as I liked Paxson, I believe he would have failed at either PU or UT.  Too small.  I met him personally once and was surprised at his lack of height and bulk.  

Its great to watch a kid like Steele flourish at Ball State.  It sucks to see a kid like Spiegel sit on the bench at IU when he could have had a 5000 yard rushing career a level down.

 

 

 

 

I'm really not missing your point....I'm just asking you to be a tad more accurate.  You listed some names, that were solid (some major) contributors at the collegiate level.  I watched a number of them play.  Did Moore (a former player at IU) have some influence at IU?  You can speculate.  At the end of the day, those college coaches are being held to perform by putting the best players they can on the field.  Speaking of Luallen, Paul Johnson was the coach at GT.  He had come over from Navy and ran an offense he must have felt Jordan was a fit....Jordan finished at Cincy.  No shame in that.  Also, we will agree to disagree about Paxson.  If Tiller and Fulmer were high on him, that speaks volumes.  I saw him a lot more than once....and he he was at playing weight.  

Again, I am not sure how CG kids performed back from 2000-2007 or so in college has anything to do with Carson Steele.  The former Mr Indiana football is his own young man....and he's not the one of e guys from the early 2000's.  I don't care what conference, its rare for any true freshman to be handed the rock that early in his career.  As I mentioned, perhaps the MAC is the best fit....but I still believe he would have worked himself into a major role either at Purdue or IU.  He's a different beast.

But we agree that we are happy to see Carson flourish.  

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On 11/5/2021 at 10:26 AM, Bash Riprock said:

Hey folks....this was never meant to be an argument over each other's opinions.  Just sharing a personal observation...doesn't make anyone wrong or right.  I am not certainly claiming I know more than anyone else on this topic.  I respect Grover's insight because he knows the kid...knows his abilities, his work ethic, character, etc.  Probably better than anyone recruiting him.

I think recruiting by colleges at any level is not an exact science.  Guessing the majority of the time, the good programs get it right.  But we all know they are not anywhere close to 100%.  I just think IU and Purdue missed with Steele.  I respect if many of you feel differently.  At the end of the day, he may be exactly where he should be in his life journey.

I'm not trying to make it an argument over opinion.  All I'm saying is that there are reasons why he didn't have the P5 offers.  I'm not saying it was right or wrong.  I'm not saying I know what the reasons were.  I'm just saying that the offers obviously weren't there.  If he wants to argue that they should have been, fine.  But his argument isn't with me so no need to try to grill me on what the reasons were.  I don't know and actually don't even care.  If P5 coaches thought he could've helped them win more games than others, he'd have got offers.  Whether they are right or wrong, it's clear by their actions what they thought.  

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11 minutes ago, XStar said:

I'm not trying to make it an argument over opinion.  All I'm saying is that there are reasons why he didn't have the P5 offers.  I'm not saying it was right or wrong.  I'm not saying I know what the reasons were.  I'm just saying that the offers obviously weren't there.  If he wants to argue that they should have been, fine.  But his argument isn't with me so no need to try to grill me on what the reasons were.  I don't know and actually don't even care.  If P5 coaches thought he could've helped them win more games than others, he'd have got offers.  Whether they are right or wrong, it's clear by their actions what they thought.  

you lost me on "grilling" you.  I gave you a plus for your response.

Its a discussion board....so not getting high fived on every response goes with the territory.  But in this case, not disagreeing....

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1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

I'm really not missing your point....I'm just asking you to be a tad more accurate.  You listed some names, that were solid (some major) contributors at the collegiate level.  I watched a number of them play.  Did Moore (a former player at IU) have some influence at IU?  You can speculate.  At the end of the day, those college coaches are being held to perform by putting the best players they can on the field.  Speaking of Luallen, Paul Johnson was the coach at GT.  He had come over from Navy and ran an offense he must have felt Jordan was a fit....Jordan finished at Cincy.  No shame in that.  Also, we will agree to disagree about Paxson.  If Tiller and Fulmer were high on him, that speaks volumes.  I saw him a lot more than once....and he he was at playing weight.  

Again, I am not sure how CG kids performed back from 2000-2007 or so in college has anything to do with Carson Steele.  The former Mr Indiana football is his own young man....and he's not the one of e guys from the early 2000's.  I don't care what conference, its rare for any true freshman to be handed the rock that early in his career.  As I mentioned, perhaps the MAC is the best fit....but I still believe he would have worked himself into a major role either at Purdue or IU.  He's a different beast.

But we agree that we are happy to see Carson flourish.  

I am "indeed" using the CG-IU connection in the early 2000s as a way "not" to go about the process.  

And it wasnt just IU.  UC, PU, MN all had CG grads that barely made a dent.   It would have been fun to see Nate Wozniak become the next Rob Gronkowski at Central Michigan instead of a guy who caught 30 passes over a 4 year career an UM.

Curry is a taller version of Paxson.  That is why he will make it   But Curry himself is not a bulky guy.  Read Allen Trieu's scouting report on him.  He describes him as "smaller then he appears" in his assessment.  

High school head football coaches have huge influence on where there players go to college.  The best coaches will guide and help the player to manage expectations and be realistic about his playing opportunities.  

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1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

you lost me on "grilling" you.  I gave you a plus for your response.

Its a discussion board....so not getting high fived on every response goes with the territory.  But in this case, not disagreeing....

I didn't mean you were grilling me.  It was Grover that was asking me what the reasons were as if I had withheld an offer from him.  Hate to break it to everyone, but I'm not a P5 coach.  

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15 hours ago, HHF said:

I am "indeed" using the CG-IU connection in the early 2000s as a way "not" to go about the process.  

And it wasnt just IU.  UC, PU, MN all had CG grads that barely made a dent.   It would have been fun to see Nate Wozniak become the next Rob Gronkowski at Central Michigan instead of a guy who caught 30 passes over a 4 year career an UM.

Curry is a taller version of Paxson.  That is why he will make it   But Curry himself is not a bulky guy.  Read Allen Trieu's scouting report on him.  He describes him as "smaller then he appears" in his assessment.  

High school head football coaches have huge influence on where there players go to college.  The best coaches will guide and help the player to manage expectations and be realistic about his playing opportunities.  

Please stop and do your homework before commenting.

Wozniak was a multi-year starter at Minnesota.  He chose Minnesota when he narrowed his offers down to the Gophers, Miami (Fla) and Purdue.  A major reason he went with Minnesota is because they would play him at the TE position.  Most of the schools offering him were at the OT position given his size.  Other schools offering him included Indiana, Cincy, Iowa State, Maryland, etc.  Wozniak was tabbed (right or wrong) as a blocking TE.  That is why he got his shots at NFL camps, it was for OT.  Perhaps he would have been better off at that position....I don't know.  But he absolutely was a player at Minnesota.  To say he did not make a dent is flat out wrong.  You have heard of a blocking TE correct?

Another person you failed to mention that played his ball at CG and was a starting TE for Indiana in the early to mid 2000's was Aaron Halterman.  Aaron was also on the Colts practice squad in 2006 and has a Super Bowl ring.

Allan Trieu....there you go.  He obviously knows more than 30 or so outstanding P5 school staffs that have offered Curry.  But I am done with this conversation if now you are going to talk negative about current players.  I am beginning to think you are the Cody Parkhurst guy from the Facebook Indiana High School Football group.....

I have a ton more insight as to what Moore does when it comes to recruiting than you.  A ton more.....and we shall leave it at that.....

Edited by Bash Riprock
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53 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Please stop and do your homework before commenting.

Wozniak was a multi-year starter at Minnesota.  He chose Minnesota when he narrowed his offers down to the Gophers, Miami (Fla) and Purdue.  A major reason he went with Minnesota is because they would play him at the TE position.  Most of the schools offering him were at the OT position given his size.  Other schools offering him included Indiana, Cincy, Iowa State, Maryland, etc.  Wozniak was tabbed (right or wrong) as a blocking TE.  That is why he got his shots at NFL camps, it was for OT.  Perhaps he would have been better off at that position....I don't know.  But he absolutely was a player at Minnesota.  To say he did not make a dent is flat out wrong.  You have heard of a blocking TE correct?

Another person you failed to mention that played his ball at CG and was a starting TE for Indiana in the early to mid 2000's was Aaron Halterman.  Aaron was also on the Colts practice squad in 2006 and has a Super Bowl ring.

Allan Trieu....there you go.  He obviously knows more than 30 or so outstanding P5 school staffs that have offered Curry.  But I am done with this conversation if now you are going to talk negative about current players.  I am beginning to think you are the Cody Parkhurst guy from the Facebook Indiana High School Football group.....

I have a ton more insight as to what Moore does when it comes to recruiting than you.  A ton more.....and we shall leave it at that.....

Again, you are missing the point.  Im suggesting that Wozniak might have had a "better" college career at a MAC school than he did at UM.  You seem to have a problem comprehending that notion.  In no way am I being critical of Curry.  he is a fantastic player.  He is also very lean for a defensive lineman, especially when you look at the brutes that Alabama has put on the field over the last decade.  

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3 hours ago, HHF said:

Again, you are missing the point.  Im suggesting that Wozniak might have had a "better" college career at a MAC school than he did at UM.  You seem to have a problem comprehending that notion.  In no way am I being critical of Curry.  he is a fantastic player.  He is also very lean for a defensive lineman, especially when you look at the brutes that Alabama has put on the field over the last decade.  

 

I'm not missing the point...I just don't agree with you.  Wozniak had a fine career.  Now if you define catching more balls better, that's your opinion.  But the guy was a multi-year starter at a Big 10 school...and he was known more for his blocking. 

https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/4359526-gophers-tight-end-nate-wozniak-expresses-his-love-hit-people

Regarding Curry....I trust the caliber of schools recruiting him understand his body and what they need to do....or not do.

Nothing personal man...I just don't see you as a recruiting expert.  And I will say again, nothing of past Trojans and their collegiate playing days have anything to do with Carson Steele.  Nada.

Has P.J. Fleck's boat already sailed? – Beyond the Bench

 

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