Jump to content
  • 0

Week 3 Officiating Issues


Bobref
 Share

Question

Post your questions or comments about Week 3’s officiating issues here. For the first two weeks, it’s been pretty quiet. Now, as we move into conference play in many places, things usually heat up a bit. As always, please make any comments in a sportsmanlike way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

I have a question. Team A is on offense and lines up in a shotgun spread set, but lines up without enough men on the line of scrimmage. No flags are thrown, no official sees the error. Team A scores a touchdown on the play.  Points on the board, ball set for PAT. Team B’s head coach is going crazy at the official on his sideline about the missed call. After several minutes of uncertainty, sideline official approaches white hat, and they talk. White then signals for illegal formation, takes points off the board and replay the down.  With no flags thrown, is this a legal or legit decision?? Please help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
40 minutes ago, Patriot74 said:

I have a question. Team A is on offense and lines up in a shotgun spread set, but lines up without enough men on the line of scrimmage. No flags are thrown, no official sees the error. Team A scores a touchdown on the play.  Points on the board, ball set for PAT. Team B’s head coach is going crazy at the official on his sideline about the missed call. After several minutes of uncertainty, sideline official approaches white hat, and they talk. White then signals for illegal formation, takes points off the board and replay the down.  With no flags thrown, is this a legal or legit decision?? Please help

We have a saying: “If it’s going to look ugly either way, you might as well get it right.” Having said that, there is no provision in the rule book that permits throwing the flag for a live ball foul retroactively, after the ball has subsequently been made ready for play.

By the way, I lived through almost exactly the scenario you described, except it was for the winning score in OT, and it was a “covered” tight end who caught the TD. We swallowed hard, apologized, and lived with it. To this day, there is a Hall of Fame coach who left NWI for Warren Central and then Avon, who reminds me of that play every time I see him. It happened in 1987.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
5 hours ago, Bobref said:

We have a saying: “If it’s going to look ugly either way, you might as well get it right.” Having said that, there is no provision in the rule book that permits throwing the flag for a live ball foul retroactively, after the ball has subsequently been made ready for play.

By the way, I lived through almost exactly the scenario you described, except it was for the winning score in OT, and it was a “covered” tight end who caught the TD. We swallowed hard, apologized, and lived with it. To this day, there is a Hall of Fame coach who left NWI for Warren Central and then Avon, who reminds me of that play every time I see him. It happened in 1987.

Thank you for the incite.  I thought the play should stand because no flags were thrown. There was no real good explanation for what transpired.  Thank you again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Team A has ball, lined up ready for play,  QB goes in motion towards our sideline, walking with his hands up,  Direct Snap to FB who subsequently gets tackled for no gain. White Hat throws a flag and gives a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Said Deception was the reason.  Our entire offense is trying to deceive the defense. Is this a call? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
1 hour ago, WCGrad92 said:

Team A has ball, lined up ready for play,  QB goes in motion towards our sideline, walking with his hands up,  Direct Snap to FB who subsequently gets tackled for no gain. White Hat throws a flag and gives a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. Said Deception was the reason.  Our entire offense is trying to deceive the defense. Is this a call? 

yep...definitely is a call. That said, in the pregame meeting between the head coach and officials, possible trick plays should be part of the conversation in that meeting. It is the responsibility of the head coach to mention that play, and it would have been at that point the officials could have provided some insight on the deception. Is every official going to make that call? I would guess no. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
On 9/3/2022 at 5:52 PM, Patriot74 said:

Thank you for the incite.  I thought the play should stand because no flags were thrown. There was no real good explanation for what transpired.  Thank you again. 

The R probably could have dropped a flag after the discussion and then signaled the foul but would that have made you feel any better about it. I wonder what information the wing and R had that mad them realize they missed it. The rule currently states you need to have no more than 4 in the backfield. It doesn't say you have to have 7 on the line. It could be a foul for illegal number (same signal as illegal formation) if you have 10 players in the game with 6 on the line and 4 of them in ineligible numbers. This could be easily missed but if you didn't catch it before the snap I'm not sure how you realize you missed it when the team is lined up for a try. If there were 11 players with 6 on the line and 5 in the backfield, hopefully the other wing got involved in the conversation and they discussed what they had for backs and realized they did have 5. If they were right I agree with Bob. Better to look ugly and get it right than be ugly and get it wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
On 9/3/2022 at 9:20 PM, Irishman said:

yep...definitely is a call. That said, in the pregame meeting between the head coach and officials, possible trick plays should be part of the conversation in that meeting. It is the responsibility of the head coach to mention that play, and it would have been at that point the officials could have provided some insight on the deception. Is every official going to make that call? I would guess no. 

Agree and good suggestion on this being brought up in the pre-game meeting. If he's got his arms up approaching the sideline he's giving the indication there is a problem and the snap is not imminent. That's where they got in trouble. If the QB was just moving sideways without indicating a problem then this can be done. Kudos to this crew for understanding the rule and getting it right.

The rule book talks about deception and says there are ways to legally deceive. But non-football acts like this are not allowed.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
9 hours ago, JustRules said:

Agree and good suggestion on this being brought up in the pre-game meeting. If he's got his arms up approaching the sideline he's giving the indication there is a problem and the snap is not imminent. That's where they got in trouble. If the QB was just moving sideways without indicating a problem then this can be done. Kudos to this crew for understanding the rule and getting it right.

The rule book talks about deception and says there are ways to legally deceive. But non-football acts like this are not allowed.

The following is a comment in the NFHS Football Casebook concerning a similar trick play:

“COMMENT: Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.”

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
13 hours ago, Bobref said:

The following is a comment in the NFHS Football Casebook concerning a similar trick play:

“COMMENT: Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.”

Interesting.   How many times have we all seen this play and it was allowed? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
8 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

It makes the rounds on FB every fall usually in a youth game…..when it works. My guess is it gets shut down more often than we think, that never makes the YouTube highlight reel. 

The problem isn’t Facebook. The problem is the officials who let it happen. If everyone applied the rule correctly, it would go away. The only reason we see it is because it works … sometimes. It’s like the 4th down and 6 quick shift in punt formation drawing the defense into encroaching. It’s actually a foul on the kicking team. But sometimes crews let it go, and that just encourages coaches to keep trying it.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
11 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The problem isn’t Facebook. The problem is the officials who let it happen. If everyone applied the rule correctly, it would go away. The only reason we see it is because it works … sometimes. It’s like the 4th down and 6 quick shift in punt formation drawing the defense into encroaching. It’s actually a foul on the kicking team. But sometimes crews let it go, and that just encourages coaches to keep trying it.

I feel you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...