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Another Trick Play


Bobref

Question

OK coaches, fans, players, everyone put on your white hat. You are in your pregame meeting with the coaches, and the following takes place:

Referee: got any unusual plays you wanna discuss privately after we break up?

Coach: Yes. 

(After opposing coach leaves) 

Coach: On punts they tend to substitute 7 players for their punt return. What we wanna do on 4th down is have our offense head off the field. Send our punt unit on to trigger their defensive substitutes. After the offense and kicking units pass each other they will both reverse course and the kicking unit will sprint to the sideline. The offensive unit will sprint into formation. We will snap the ball while the defense is trying to readjust and we will run a dive to get the first down.

As Referee, your response is:  _______________________________.

(This is a real life scenario. Happened last night.)

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17 minutes ago, Bobref said:

OK coaches, fans, players, everyone put on your white hat. You are in your pregame meeting with the coaches, and the following takes place:

Referee: got any unusual plays you wanna discuss privately after we break up?

Coach: Yes. 

(After opposing coach leaves) 

Coach: On punts they tend to substitute 7 players for their punt return. What we wanna do on 4th down is have our offense head off the field. Send our punt unit on to trigger their defensive substitutes. After the offense and kicking units pass each other they will both reverse course and the kicking unit will sprint to the sideline. The offensive unit will sprint into formation. We will snap the ball while the defense is trying to readjust and we will run a dive to get the first down.

As Referee, your response is:  _______________________________.

(This is a real life scenario. Happened last night.)

I cannot think of the exact wording, but it seems it would fall under something like the spirit of sportmanship or integrity of the game; just like sneaking a receiver onto the field before a snap that the defense does not see. So, that would be a USC on the head coach. 

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Does this fall under the same considerations for no-huddle offense situations?  That is, if the offense breaks from no-huddle "speedball" and substitutes even one player, then time has to be allowed for similar type substitution for the defense and an official will often straddle the ball to prevent a premature snap.

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

Does this fall under the same considerations for no-huddle offense situations?  That is, if the offense breaks from no-huddle "speedball" and substitutes even one player, then time has to be allowed for similar type substitution for the defense and an official will often straddle the ball to prevent a premature snap.

HS does not have the same substitution rules as NCAA or NFL. There are no requirements to allow the other team to sub. 

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15 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

HS does not have the same substitution rules as NCAA or NFL. There are no requirements to allow the other team to sub. 

Didn't realize that.  Thanks for the info.  I'm surprised that something like this wouldn't apply in HS; especially since it does apply in NCAA/NFL.

In light of this, I'd have to go with @Irishman's solution. 

I admit back in the day when I played ball in Texas, we used to run the old "two off, one on and talk to the coach play" where one guy would come on and two would go off with a coach yelling his head off at one of the guys coming off.  That one guy that went "off" and was getting yelled at would not leave the field, but would stand on the sideline, but about an inch inbounds and would stand there with his head down and hands on his hips like he was being admonished by the coach.  On the snap he'd jet down the sideline, typically uncovered, as everyone was focused on the activity near the ball and not the sideline outside of that guy getting his butt chewed out ... having just seen the motion of two players "going out."  I believe that since the caveman days, there's a rule that addresses that and makes that type of deception no longer legal.  Have to admit, it was fun to run it ... along with the bounce pass trick play.

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42 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Didn't realize that.  Thanks for the info.  I'm surprised that something like this wouldn't apply in HS; especially since it does apply in NCAA/NFL.

In light of this, I'd have to go with @Irishman's solution. 

I admit back in the day when I played ball in Texas, we used to run the old "two off, one on and talk to the coach play" where one guy would come on and two would go off with a coach yelling his head off at one of the guys coming off.  That one guy that went "off" and was getting yelled at would not leave the field, but would stand on the sideline, but about an inch inbounds and would stand there with his head down and hands on his hips like he was being admonished by the coach.  On the snap he'd jet down the sideline, typically uncovered, as everyone was focused on the activity near the ball and not the sideline outside of that guy getting his butt chewed out ... having just seen the motion of two players "going out."  I believe that since the caveman days, there's a rule that addresses that and makes that type of deception no longer legal.  Have to admit, it was fun to run it ... along with the bounce pass trick play.

We beat BNL my Junior year with the old “yellow punt”, the very play @Bobrefdescribed. I was a dumbass HS kid and knew it was jank. 

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The issue here is a player who is replaced during a dead ball and return during the same dead ball. And a substitute who enters and becomes a players can't leave during the same dead ball. You could potentially have 22 total instances of it in this play if the entire unit is replaced. It's a foul for illegal substitution and would be a dead ball foul as soon as it happens. It would only be enforced as one penalty though. Rule 3-7-3 if you have a rule book.

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8 hours ago, JustRules said:

The issue here is a player who is replaced during a dead ball and return during the same dead ball. And a substitute who enters and becomes a players can't leave during the same dead ball. You could potentially have 22 total instances of it in this play if the entire unit is replaced. It's a foul for illegal substitution and would be a dead ball foul as soon as it happens. It would only be enforced as one penalty though. Rule 3-7-3 if you have a rule book.

The key here, for officials, is that you can shut this play down with a 5 yd. dead ball illegal substitution penalty, as opposed to worrying about illegal participation or unsportsmanlike conduct.

The key for coaches is that whatever goofy play you can dream up, if it involves using the substitution process to deceive the opponent, it’s probably illegal.

Edited by Bobref
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