Indiana Fan

1 hour ago, DannyT said:

As far as I know only one transfer to NP and one to Cathedral. Neither have been cleared yet.

 

Would be interesting to know the reasons for transfers. Whether it’s a move from the family or just wanting to play elsewhere. I miss the days of kids playing in the community that they grew up in.

29 minutes ago, DannyT said:

As far as I know only one transfer to NP and one to Cathedral. Neither have been cleared yet.

 

Gotcha. Lots of rumors

On 6/21/2022 at 1:39 PM, DannyT said:

Where did you read that at if I may ask?

Twitter. Also have some people within different programs. Lots of talk. Not sure why all of the transfers from lots of places lately. Any info on the Warren transfers?

7 hours ago, temptation said:

Not if they don’t overthink it.

A lot more to it then just showing up

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

And whomever takes the reigns when Moore walks away will simply have to keep the train on the tracks as long as CG doesn’t overthink it.

Established culture, growing enrollment, sweet spot in terms of SES (I could create another thread entirely about this particular subject)…

Easier said than done. 

3 hours ago, Grover said:

You & I have disagreed on the topic but not because I don't acknowledge the advantage.  My point is that a coach and a team can't do anything about it so quitcherbitchin about it.  Enrollment disadvantages can be overcome.

I agree to an existent. But just put this into perspective, a school that has 3,000 students has 1,500 boys to choose from for football. A school that has 2,600 students has 1,300 students to choose from. That’s 200 more potentially good football players to choose from. You take a school like Carmel or BD, and they are doubling the amount of potential good football players another school might have. Take your best players on your team, and Carmel has 2 of that best player. Yes in can be overcome obviously I’m not stupid, but it sure does help having more boys to choose from.

25 minutes ago, temptation said:

Didn’t both HSE and Fishers replace head coaches just prior to the pandemic or am I mistaken?

I’d also like to challenge your last statement (though it’s not an exact science) as Fishers finished third in the boys track conference meet and was the second highest finishing HCC school at the boys track and field state finals.

They finished in the top half of the conference in the 4x1 and won the 4x4.

Is there a disconnect between track and football at Fishers?

That’s what I thought as well. Both schools got head coaches at the same time. Not sure what he is referring to when saying Covid made it difficult for fishers and not HSE. I’m over the pandemic being used as an excuse.

Read where New Pal had quite a bit of transfers. Interesting…

Any word or info into the new New Pal players for this fall?

3 hours ago, Grover said:

I saw where the Plainfield QB is transferring to Westfield. Anybody know how good he will be?

Not sure. But he did put up good numbers as a freshman. Westfield does have some QB’s already there and expecting to play. Ballard and Gilbert. Sons of Chris Ballard and Head coach Gilbert. 

5 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I want to know how Warren or anyone in the MIC is running and hiding?  If you aren’t aware, Center Grove is the one dropping all the MIC schools after this year (you’ll notice they aren’t on the schedule of any basketball schedules in 22-23), while Carmel is remaining on for all MIC times for the time being.  Carmel might eventually play some others, but they’re not dropping Warren or BD.  

CG would have liked to kept them on for football at least. Most of those schools dropped them

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Recent setbacks for CG athletic program :

Booted from The MIC

Voted down by The HCC

Dropped by Whiteland, Roncalli, Decatur Central and Warren Central

Deserted by Athletic Director

 

Lets be easy on the Trojans.  They are going thru a rough patch and need a little TLC.  

 

You say a rough patch, but what is CG supposed to do? Not win? Not run a successful program? I think it’s a shame that the biggest schools in the state won’t play them. What does that say about those schools and those programs? Decatur or Roncalli aren’t as big obviously, but shoot they are good programs and if I’m trying to keep building my program I keep them on the schedule. Doesn’t hurt a thing. Warren has no excuse. None of those MIC schools have any excuse. But the flip side is for CG. If I’m them, I may not want to play MIC schools after them kicking me out of the conference. The whole thing is a shame. Warren not wanting to play CG in the regular season is a disgrace to high school football.

12 hours ago, Warren Central Warrior said:

The Warriors pretty much said : Screw you Center Grove!!!

I don’t think so. I think it’s more of Warren saying, “can we find a game that we can win?”

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Why??  Its been a tremendous rivalry over the years with tremendous respect.  Not sure why you would say something like this?

Intimidation

6 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I  think it is funny how people are trying to put Center Grove with schools like Whiteland and Dc and Fc just to name a few.  This schools want nothing to do with CG in football and in fact most sports in general..   Whiteland all ready drop CG a few years back and DC could have extended the series but did not want to.

Heard from multiple people that Warren central will be removing CG from their football schedule beginning next year. It is from the Warren central side of things that they do not want to play Cg after this year.

43 minutes ago, temptation said:

When you are historically 7th or 8th in the conference "rising" is the only direction, no?

You have a point there

1 hour ago, HHF said:

what will it take to convince you they are for real?

Just because they won 3 conference games does not mean they are up or a rising program. I agree they can definitely can be "on the rise" but you can't just say that after one year. We will see how they are this year. It is a school that should be much better than they have been anyway.

10 hours ago, HHF said:

HSE, Westfield, Brownsburg will duke it out for the conference championship.  Franklin Central will surprise with several conference wins.  

This will be a pivotal year for the Noblesville program, and somewhat of a referendum on Dave Sharpe and his Power running offensive system.  The Millers will have 3 P5 D1 linemen in front of several experienced running backs and should run roughshod over opposing defenses.  If Sharpe cant win in The HCC with this team, then the system likely is not conducive to the style of play in this conference.

Mark Bless at Avon will be the next of the Bless brothers to step down.

Fishers was the conference team hurt most by covid, especially in the area of strength and development.  They are playing catch up.

Zionsville loses a ton of talent and is rebuilding.

 

 

 

Yeah I am not sold on FC yet.

1 hour ago, HHF said:

Terre haute will not build a mega 6A type high school.  They are already on an island and a mega school would further isolate them from their neighbors and force them into independence.  Enrollment is dropping and eventually both THS and THN will be approaching 4A status, with puts them in line with the other 3a and 4A schools in the area and likely WIC membership.  

Agreed. They’ll need to do that for their future and will only help them in all athletics.

28 minutes ago, HHF said:

I expect to see Carmel as a long time independent.

They will start to get the kind of national exposure that is usually reserved for just the very top football schools in the country.  

Dropping back into a conference now would be a step back, which is not their style.  

 

 

 

Understood. But just know it’s always better to be in a conference for all sports. Kids get awards, JV and freshmen games can be played, etc. I find it difficult for them to get into a conference in the near future though so I see them independent for a while. Most school I doubt will want to associate themselves with them at the moment. That’s why I still feel CG should not tie themselves to Carmel.

with all that being said, still a shame HCC didn’t let them in. And a total shame the MIC kicked them and CG out. 

2 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Franklin, Whiteland, Franklin Central, Center Grove, Columbus North, Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Southport. Maybe Plainfield or Decatur Central if they continue to grow, although Plainfield could eventually end up in the HCC with its county rivals Brownsburg & Avon if it tops 2K (which it eventually will). 

Mostly 6As and a few larger 5As. 

Nobody wants to be in a league with Carmel, but they could end up in the HCC given everyone else in their county is in the league. 

What you're beginning to see in the Mid-State is a pretty wide separation - some schools (Whiteland, Franklin, Plainfield) are growing *fast* and are eventually going to be 6A while others (Mooresville, Martinsville, Greenwood) are declining or holding steady and are likely 4As for the foreseeable future. Could very easily see some movement between the Mid-State and Conference Indiana, especially if CI wants to shed the Terre Haute schools. 

Franklin still has a while to grow. Bloomingtons will stay consistent in where they are at. 

6 hours ago, US31 said:

I have no "inside" source, but I'm told by multiple people they expect this next year to be "quiet" publicly and then in 23-24 an announcement for some significant changes to the Indy Metro conference landscape.  Most of those people have different opinions on what that will be.  

Personally, I would like to see HCC remain relatively unchanged but see Carmel/CG basically rotate around the HCC football world as semi-permanent non-conf games...that's a voting bloc of one, and I don't actually get a vote. 

My gut tells me there will be more domino's to drop and chairs to shuffle.

 

I believe that CG and possibly Carmel will create a new conference. Possibly 2-3 teams will be poached from HCC and possibly a couple from the MIC. These are legitimately conversations that are ongoing. I believe it was a mistake for the HCC not to let them in. 
 

Now, Carmel will be and always will be an interesting factor. Schools do not want carmel in their conference. If CG is smart, they should not tie themselves with Carmel. 
 

you are correct in stating that the landscape of these Indy Metro conferences will be changed. Give it a year or 2 and things will be VERY different.

Another interesting school for the near future is Whiteland. Growing incredibly quickly and could possibly get to the size of a Center Grove within 5-6 years (only about a 10 minute drive between Whiteland and CG). You have to think that it would outgrow the Mid-State conference. Not sure how that plays out, but do keep in mind CG will either try to get back in the HCC or create a new conference. From very good sources, I believe a new conference will be formed within 5 years and CG will be at the helm of it. Maybe Whiteland will try and continue that growth and look for something larger.

12 minutes ago, HHF said:

Goshen, Plymouth and Wawasee are all having major participation problems.  That has to impact their travel as well.  

Is The MIC still a football conference?  Or is it now a basketball conference?

The MIC is falling apart

2 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

I generally make it a point to not respond to DT/HHF's "throw-it-against-the-wall-and-see-what sticks" clickbait, but 

*-Shelbyville - I figure it's a matter of when, not if, the Golden Bears go to the EIAC. 

*-Greenwood - could replace Shelbyville in the Hoosier Heritage. They were apparently interested when Rushville left but the district admin insisted they remain in the Mid-State. 

*-Indian Creek: Isolated. It's a mid-sized 3A school without any 3A schools nearby. It's basically stuck with Brown County & Edgewood. That's why it's in the WIC. It could possibly join the Indiana Crossroads, but travel is going to be a nightmare no matter where it goes. It's not joining a league with 4A Shelbyville & Greenwood. 

*-Southport: The Circle City Conference is a private school league. Southport's not going there. If/when Conference Indiana blows up, I'd expect them to possibly try to latch on with either the Mid-State or the Hoosier Heritage. Have no idea what Columbus North and the Bloomington schools do in that scenario - possibly try to join an expanded Mid-State? 

*-Tech could compete in the MIC in basketball and really not in much of anything else. It would get destroyed in football. Geographically, the NCC is a terrible fit, but competitively, it's a good one. 

*-Center Grove: It'll be in the HCC in the near future once the kerfluffle over them leaving the MIC blows over. 

 

I could definitely see Greenwood try and get in the Hoosier Heritage IF Shelbyville leaves.

20 hours ago, HHF said:

One of the most highly discussed and debated topics relative to high school football is the one involving conference affiliation.

 

More than most states in the US, conferences remain at the core of high school athletics in Indiana, primarily due to the fact that we do not use a qualifying system to advance to post season play, with all teams and all individual athletes having an equal opportunity to compete for state championships.

 

Conference Championships, at both the individual and team level, are still meaningful and important in Indiana, and will remain that way.

 

Conferences in many states have been blown up in favor of districts, sections, clusters, divisions, regions, you name it. Once that conference connection has been lost, that feeling of belonging and inclusion is very hard to ever get back.

 

This is why Indiana holds it conferences as sacred and absolutely vital to the success of Individual athletes and teams throughout the state.

 

So when it comes to changes to these critically important conferences, people get emotional and possessive and opinionated, and a hundred other emotions are likely to emerge. That's what makes it such a juicy discussion topic.

 

We've seen quite a few changes over the past few years, some subtle, some earth shaking.

 

Some of the bigger moves are as follows :

 

* Center Grove and Carmel's departure from The MIC

* Mishawka's move to the NLC

* Jasper and Vincennes jump to the SIAC

* Franklin Central sneaks into the HCC

* Perry Meridian joins the Mid State

* The SAC opens up to non con play

* The PAC absorbs the Big 8.

 

Several others are pending :

 

* Cascade is leaving The ICC

* Hanover Central is joining the Northwest Crossroads

* Gary West Side is joining the GSSC

 

There are plenty of others, big school and small school.

 

So what will the next round of conference moves look like, and who are some schools that either might already be contemplating a change, or should consider one given current competitive circumstances ?

 

1. Shelbyville

The Golden Bear athletic program has hit on rough times, with no team suffering more than the varsity football program. The Bears are 2-35 since Pat Parks retired after the 2017 season, 1-27 in Hoosier Heritage Conference play over that span. Enrollment is stagnant, and the school is stuck right in the middle of Class 4A. The HHC is heading in one direction, and Shelbyville is heading in another. Look for this school to find a new home in the near future.

 

2. Greenwood

Greenwood is another school that is getting smaller while everyone else in their conference is getting bigger. With just under 1200 students, the Woodmen are competing against schools much larger in 5A and 6A, and are struggling to keep up. The City of Greenwood is completely full with little land for new development. The Mid State is a great conference and nobody wants to leave it. GHS may be forced out at some point given the current enrollment and competitive trends in the conference.

 

3. Indian Creek

I continue to look at Trafalgar, Indiana on the state map, and I ask myself, "what is Indian Creek doing in the Western Indiana Conference?" The Creek has had very little success in The WIC relative to conference championships in team sports, and the travel expense and burden on the athletes, coaches, families and fans must be brutal. Wouldn't it make some sense for IC to play in the Indianapolis based Indiana Crossroads Conference? Maybe that's too logical.

 

(Aren't Indian Creek, Greenwood and Shelbyville fairly close together? hmmm)

 

4. The Duneland Conference

The DAC is a bit like a country club. Admission is very tough to achieve. Once you have it, you tend to hang on for life. Hobart left the Duneland in 2003 when the other conference schools outgrew the Brickies and the championship machine suddenly dried up in the post Don Howell era. Laporte is going thru some similar struggles. The Slicers are positioned right between the NIC and the DAC, and geographically could go either way. I would not be shocked to see Laporte and Michigan City move east for a combination of competitive and travel reasons and join the Northern Indiana Conference at some point.

 

5. Wawasee

The Warriors played Roncalli for a state championship in 2004, lost that game and it has been downhill ever since. The athletic program is struggling to compete in the NLC amid declining participation numbers. There is no clear path to success for Wawasee. A new home might be the better long term solution.

 

6. Conference Indiana

This conference has seen more change than any other in Indiana over the past 20 years. Schools have come and gone regularly and despite some stability over the past 5 years, there is no long lasting permanency due to changes coming in the Terre Haute school system, where TH North and South will likely both be remodeled and downsized with a new 3A size school opening as well. These changes could push expansion in The WIC and put the final nail in the Conference Indiana coffin. Bloomington North and South should be proactive and join the Hoosier Hills, and Columbus North is a strong candidate for inclusion into The Mid State. Southport, which was left out in the cold by rivals Franklin Central and Perry Meridian, should be able to find a home in the Circle City Conference.

 

7. West Lafayette

The Red Devils absolutely own the Hoosier, losing only 3 conference games in 7 years, two of those to the great LCC teams that won consecutive state titles. WL would transition seamlessly into The NCC, and play meaningful football games weekly against Harrison, Jeff, McCutcheon, Kokomo, Logansport, Muncie Central, Marion, etc. This program unfortunately sleepwalks thru an overmatched schedule at times, which may cost it in terms of post season preparation. Its tough to sharpen the stone weekly when your winning 48-0 at halftime and playing running clock football for half the season.

 

8. Center Grove

Conference membership means more to Center Grove than it does to Carmel. Conference and County championships are celebrated in White River Township, while the Carmel crew is focused primarily on state title hardware. Look for CG to make another run at The HCC, this time flying solo, and getting unanimous acceptance..

 

9. Indianapolis Tech

With Carmel and Center Grove gone, The MIC is now an urban conference, and Tech belongs and deserves a shot to join this group. With the proper investments in coaching and equipment, Tech can compete. This school should not be traveling all over the state in the NCC for conference play when it has 6 MIC like minded schools in its backyard.

 

10. Northwest Crossroads

The addition of Hanover Central in 2023 is a good start for The NCC, but a full expansion to 10 schools including Hammond Central, Hammond Morton and East Chicago would significantly expand the leagues competitive profile, Solves a lot of scheduling headaches as well for conference ADs.

I would still like to see Mid State expand and bring in the Bloomingtons and Columbus North.

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Cathedral now playing schools their own size?? 
 

Uhh Cathedral hasn’t played in their enrollment based classification since the inception of the Success Factor and will have a thousand less kids than the next smallest 6A school. 

Cmon now