BTF

Adams Central (22 sectionals) and Sheridan (19 sectionals) both eliminated. No way. 

Updated list based on the ten year rule:

1A: No teams 

2A: Andrean, Memorial, Luers, LCC, Linton-Stockton, Pioneer

3A: Southridge, West Lafayette, Western Boone.

4A: Chatard, Roncalli

5A: Columbus East, Dwenger, Snider, Cathedral, New Pal, Valpo

6A: Ben Davis, Carmel, Center Grove, Warren Central, and Westfield

This eliminates 12 teams including Penn. No thanks. I have a hard time calling Westfield a Blue Blood, but not Penn and Hobart.

Penn: 25 sectional titles, 18 regionals, 12 semi-state, 5 state titles

Hobart: 22 sectional titles, 17 regionals, 10 semi-state, 4 state titles

Westfield: 11 sectional titles, 6 regionals, 5 semi-state, 1 state title

The above case in point proves that historical success should bear some weight. My original criteria needs some tweaking. I would consider Hobart a Blue Blood even though they aren't on the list. Westfield doesn't come to mind, but they made the cut. That doesn't make any sense. I wouldn't necessarily eliminate Westfield, but I might say that if you have three state titles to your credit, you automatically qualify as a Blue Blood regardless of your recent success. 

2 hours ago, temptation said:

My rule of thumb is if the current players who are a part of your program (or if you are recruiting them at the college level) were not born or were too young to remember when you were elite, it’s expired.

Indiana/Georgetown basketball come to mind.

Nebraska/Tennessee football do also.

In my opinion a Blue Blood is a program that has maintained success decade after decade. Otherwise you're  a Johnny Come Lately. You have to come up with a new name for programs who've succeeded just in the last ten years. Blue Bloods are defined by their titles. Titles that were achieved 30 years ago count. But a true Blue Blood continues to be successful. One could argue that a title fifteen years ago shouldn't be added into the "maintenance" part of keeping your status. Although I'm an advocate for fifteen, I could be talked into ten. 

Last ten years: One state title. Two regional titles. Three sectional titles. This won't add any teams to the list, but it will eliminate some. 

57 minutes ago, temptation said:

Great off-season topic.  Following.

FWIW:  I don’t think blue blood status is eternal.  Your criteria is solid but I think any such status expires after a certain amount of time without success.  

(We can debate the specifics of that time period all day.)

Going back twenty years in college basketball is extreme. I thought I'd go fifteen. Are you thinking ten? I do think history has a place. I mean if someone wanted to argue that their 4 titles outweigh someone else's 9 sectional championships in the last 10 year, then I think they could make a case. 

Maybe an exception given to Hobart, Jimtown, Tri-West, and Franklin Central? Four state titles each for those programs. 

Gibson Southern's four sectional titles fell well short of the required ten. They check all the boxes for recent success, but no where on the radar historically. 

37 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Thanks for starting an interesting topic.  Beats seeding, reclassification, and P/P vs Public debates. 

I would say class is irrelevant somewhat.  IMO the 1A "Blue bloods" - Pioneer, Linton, and LCC are currently in 2A, WeBo/Southridge and Ev Memorial/Chatard are all higher than when they started their runs, same with Columbus East and New Pal (I think) will be returning back to 4A after many years playing up. 

33/34 schools would be a little more than the top 10% where I would draw the line.  Not sure who I would take off though.  Probably Zionsville and Valpo, just because its seems that 4A-5A have been watered down a bit with SF over the last decade.  But that is splitting hairs. 

It got me thinking after reading an article about college basketball Blue Bloods. Thought it would be fun. That list could change in several directions depending on the criteria used. I weighed back and forth as to whether one state championship was enough. Having at least 10 sectional titles and and 5 regional titles were the stats I started with. 

4 minutes ago, tango said:

Ev. Memorial has never played in 2A. We were in 3A from 1985 through 2018. In 2019 we became the only 3A to win state in 4A after being bumped because of the SF.  And we've always bled blue blood. . . 

IU hasn't been a blue blood since Calbert Cheaney graduated. 

Evansville Memorial is currently in 2A. Regardless of class, they are a Blue Blood.

Some still consider IU a Blue Blood since they have 5 national championships. 

17 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Andrean qualifies if you count being in two different classes. 10 sectionals, 5 regionals, 3 semi-states, and 2 state championships in the past 15 years.

Typo: Andrean was in all along. Somehow missed them when plugging the name in. Good catch. 

This topic intrigued me after seeing that IU basketball was still considered a Blue Blood. A Final Four appearance in the last 20 years kept their status in tact...........until now. They've officially dropped off the charts. Who are the high school football Blue Bloods? What qualifies a team as a Blue Blood? What does a team have to do the maintain that status? The following is my perspective:

Qualifications:

One state title. Two semi-state titles. Five regional titles. Ten sectional titles. 

Maintenance: Last 15 years

One state finals appearance. Two semi-state appearances. Four sectional titles.

1A: Adams Central, Sheridan, and South Putnam.

2A: Mater Dei, Memorial, Luers, Scecina, LLC, Linton-Stockton, and Pioneer

3A: Heritage Hills, Ritter, Southridge, West Lafayette, and Western Boone.

4A: Chatard, Roncalli, Reitz, Lowell, and St. Joe

5A: Columbus East, Dwenger, Snider, Cathedral, New Pal, Valpo, and Zionsville

6A: Ben Davis, Carmel, Center Grove, Penn, Warren Central, and Westfield

Teams left out that surprised me: Avon, Hobart, Jasper, and Merrillville. 

Hobart gets back in with a sectional title any time over the next few years. Merrillville gets in with a state finals appearance, which will be more achievable at the 5A level. 

20 minutes ago, psaboy said:

So I had it wrong, Snider then came out of delay and controlled game. It was a strong line of storms that moved through the area, that I recall. They postponed the Penn game in MIshawaka till Saturday and the game was played with some lake effect snow from cold front that shifted winds off the lake and dropped temps. 

Good memories, great game!

2 hours ago, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

I agree that DP should have gotten more of a look in a few games last year but he must not practice well? 

I think it's more about Kelly being a dickhead. He was more committed to his transfer than he was a player that's already been with the program. Anyone with a morsel of a brain could see that Pyne played as well as anyone when he had the opportunity. 

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

They never expire.  Zero tolerance return policy. 

Last one was classic. Good find.

I said that Buchner would win a national title at Notre Dame, but that was back when Kelly and Freeman were a team. So I can't be held to that one. Kelly's chances of winning a championship in the next four years was better at ND than it is at LSU. We'll see how Freeman does on his own. He certainly has the talent currently there and the recruits coming in to be successful. 

34 minutes ago, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

Out of curiosity who are the many “chosen ones” you speak of?

Dayne Christ, Gunnar Kiel, Malik Zaire, DeShone Kizer, Everett Golson, Tommy Rees, Phil Jurcovic, Brandon Winbush, Brendan Clark, Drew Pyne. How many of these guys would you take over Tyler Buchnar? 

 

I was referring to "chosen ones" on a national scale. Not just Notre Dame. 

I wouldn't take any of those guys on that list over Buchner. But I think Pyne is pretty darn good though. It'll be interesting to see how they both do during the Blue and Gold game. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Both quarterbacks are capable of leading the Irish back the playoffs. Right now I'm 55/45 in favor of Buchner. 

24 minutes ago, temptation said:

Way before Clausen, but…I had to dig deep for this one.

 

Lol, leave to Temp to provide the receipt. 😂

1 hour ago, Irishman said:

I also wonder had he done this one year ago if he gets the same mixed reaction? Did getting into the playoff give him some leverage?

Interesting point. 

36 minutes ago, temptation said:

In summary, mixed bag.

Figured it would be. We're all faced with it at some point with the team we support. 

I still don't think there is a place in sports for politics, just as there isn't a place for politics in Hollywood. I don't throw around my political opinion when I'm meeting with clients. Nor should athletes or movie stars to those who buy their tickets and support their livelihood. My value to my clients has nothing to do with BLM, Donald Trump, or the latest shooting down the street. We pay athletes and movies stars to perform, not open their mouths about world events. A teachers job is to teach a class of a specific area. A doctor is paid to heal. A lawyer to defend or prosecute. Athletes should be held to the same standard. 

Good conversation. Wasn't trying to start a beat-up session on the Wolverines. Just wondering what fans thought of this move. 

6 minutes ago, Irishman said:

While I am not a fan of Kaepernick at all, what cannot be underestimated is the bond between a coach and player. Harbaugh has seen a side of Kap that NONE of us have seen. I do not give a rat’s ass what his politics are; he is entitled to his opinion. Some bonds go deeper than something like that. 

Can't say I can argue with that. Could Harbaugh have said, "I love ya man, but I just can't take that risk." I'm not sure a bond with a former player is strong enough to risk upsetting big donors. I can see both sides of the coin on this one. 

22 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Here are the posts concerning it from the College Football 2022 thread.

Thanks for the heads up. Haven't been following all the topics these days. 

This could make for interesting conversation. Let's try to keep it cool though. I think having Kaepernick as the honorary captain at the Michigan spring game was a bold move. Does this move help or hurt the program? On one hand, I'm not surprised. The University of Michigan is widely considered liberal. Does this piss off their conservative donors? One would think so. 

9 hours ago, psaboy said:

I remember that now. I recall Larry Davis, was at that Carmel game. I remember it had a delay for storms and If I recall correctly Carmel came out of that delay and took control of the game. Did Larry Davis play college ball anywhere? I recall him being pretty good. 

Not sure where Davis ended up. I imagine he was DII or NAIA caliber. I don't recall the storm, but I do recall the Snider comeback. They were down either 21-7 or 21-0 deep into the third quarter. Then Isaacs did what he did best.........ditch the pass and dominate on the ground. Carmel couldn't stop them until succeeding with a 2pt conversion attempt in OT. Carmel won 29-28. 

There's been many "chosen ones" over the years, and they only seem to pan out 50% of the time. I like better odds than that so I won't take that bet. Do I think Tyler B. has heisman qualities? Yep, but I'll take a pass on the title "chosen one." I'm just thrilled that ND has two quarterbacks on their roster cable of leading the Irish to the playoffs. Kelly put too much stock in Coan last year and not enough on Pyne. In fact, Pyne got screwed after bailing ND out against Wisconsin. "Thanks, but my commitment is to my transfer, go sit over there on the bench for the rest of the season." And for neither one of them to play against Oklahoma State was just utterly disturbing. I like Freeman, but damn! Playing Coan from beginning to end didn't work all season, not sure why Freeman thought it would work against OSU. 

6 hours ago, DE said:

Sorry.  Thank you for the clarification.

No problem at all!

18 hours ago, psaboy said:

I thought Courtney Davis was QB?? If not QB who was QB for the team?

 

Justin Weinraub

18 hours ago, DE said:

Chris Dittoe?

Chris Dittoe played for Dwenger during that same time period. I think Psaboy is thinking of Larry Davis. Larry Davis was mid 90's. A scarry runner who's season ended in overtime against Carmel. 

9 hours ago, psaboy said:

Only Snider back that I believe went to IU was Vaughn Dunbar. think he was there in 1990 & 1991? He would have graduated Snider in 1988??

Courtney Davis was the RB on the Snider team that beat Merrillville. Snider's single season record holder for All Purpose Yardage in a single season with 3101 yards. His career total also sits at #1 with 5820 All Purpose Yardage. He went on to play at Bowling Green State where he recorded over 2000 rushing yards and 14 touchdowns.