Lysander

1 hour ago, DT said:

I have a whole new generation of readers here to educate RD.  It all starts with a spark.  COVID has helped to light that initial flame.  A PP whitewash at LOS will be the next key event.  After that, contraction will begin in earnest.  Stick around for the ride.

Gawd, I really do enjoy and appreciate the level of BS you are able to spew.

It’s well beyond my ability.....or even....remote willingness to.

Gotta give you credit.

I have absolutely no idea what you mean as regards “Whitewash”.

On 11/18/2020 at 5:32 PM, Yuccaguy said:

I only read ONE reference to the Circle City Conference.  

There is NO WAY that you can't say that that collection of schools have far outshone some of those mentioned at the start of this thread.  

They get my vote as being on the UPSIDE! 

Although I have mentioned this before, Covenant Christian who participates in every sport except Football (along with Heritage Christian, btw), is part of the Circle City Conference in every sport excepting football.

With that, Covenant Christian (1A), Chatard (3A) and Roncalli (4A) are all playing for state berths this weekend.  Heritage Christian (2A) lost last week.

For the record, the NIC actually had 3 teams at LOS in 2011.  Penn (6A), South Bend Washington (4A) and South Bend St. Joe (3A) at LOS in 2011.  None won...but it was still quite an accomplishment.

I have to admit to being a LOT torn.  

Ordinarily, I would be all behind Roncalli (particularly after what what they have been through the last few years) but I am simply a huge fan of Mike Gillin and am amazed at what he has done at Mooresville in so short a time.

Just hoping for an EPIC game.

Arguably, the battle for the “Best Team” (All Classes) in the North is between Chatard v Marian and Merrillville v. Westfield (assuming 6A is the direct measuring stick)  -  truth be told.

If Merrillville (whom Chatard made relatively short work of) somehow defeats Westfield (or somehow plays closer than they did against Chatard) then just who is the best team All Classes in the North?

If Marian beats Chatard in this scenario - which ABSOLUTELY could happen, then is Marian the best team in the North? 

I consider the Marian/Chatard game to actually favor Marian.  Long drive, cold night, another away game for Chatard....2 years in a row.  Great Marian team.

I admit to using the transitive value but that is, ultimately, what analytics do X 100.

12 hours ago, IndplsCathedral_Dad said:

The coach is a very good friend of Coach Peebles and they're celebrating Mass so it should narrow it down for you.

I’ve been filled in.  

After way too many years here the tea leaves usually tell the story.  Didn’t realize they were buds, though.  

5 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Or, in the case of 1A public and private adversaries LCC and Pioneer it will look like Godzilla and Rodan in Kyoto instead of Tokyo as they will both, likely, have an opportunity to meet again in 2A via SF.

Gotta love the Kaiju reference.

54 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

About what year did this happen?

It’s been at least 10 years.

24 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Cathedral & Brebeuf are not diocesan schools - Cathedral is independent of the archdiocese and Brebeuf is a Jesuit school and thus is also independent. They don't have deanery schools directly feeding them. 

But it is interesting (and frankly, not surprising) that one school would sign on to rules, and then suddenly break free, giving itself a significant competitive advantage over the other Catholic schools in the area. But because it is independent of the archdiocese, it can do whatever it wants. It appears a large number of Cathedral and Brebeuf students come from Hamilton County, whose parishes are part of the Diocese of Lafayette. 

Just to clarify, if there might be some misunderstanding, I am aware that both Cathedral and Brebeuf are not Archdiocese schools.

Also to clarify, it is my understanding that Cathedral never signed off, simply that they helped come up with them and then, in the end, decided not to sign....as is/was their right.  That leaves Brebeuf as the sole non-Archdiocese school to sign off.

12 minutes ago, tango said:

Chatard did the same in 2018 and arrived late to Enlow.  Irish won’t have that problem this time.  

Is the Evansville HS where the Irish are having a meal and mass happen to be a school you might have some close familiarity with?

18 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

IIRC, wasn't part of the issue a pre-game Mass and meal at St. Meinrad in 2009?  I thought that is what I heard.. a bit of a long-winded sermon and a recruiting pitch to answer a call to the vocation?  That might just be urban legend around these parts though. 

But yes, the roads in and out of the bowl are extremely unfriendly to visiting buses and fans.  My family member that needs a walker hates the bowl for that reason alone.  

I heard the same story.  

12 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Actually, I think they are ... I think they are the only exception so far ... at least among teams that won back-to-back state.  All other teams that won back-to-back state titles have moved up like LCC, Pioneer,   And even a couple that didn't like Scecina in 2011 and 2012, but still moved up via SF for 6 points.  I think that Columbus East also ended up with a split where they lost state in 5A in 2013 and then won in 2014, which would have been 7 points, but didn't move up for that pair of back-to-back LOS appearances.  That's not necessarily as big an issue given that their home class is actually 4A and they would have been heading up to 6A, but for the split eval year.

To my knowledge (and I’ve tried to keep my eye on it) only they and New Pal are the exceptions.

3 minutes ago, Knight82 said:

Yes, they will be doing the broadcast live on IHSAAtv.org and then on tape delay on TV46 at 11pm.  Chuck and Bob do a great job.

Awesome.  I really enjoyed their coverage of the games I watched last year.  Thanks!

Does anyone know if the WHME-46 folks will be doing the Chatard-Marian game for the IHSAA?  I watched 2 games they did last year and think they do as good a job as anyone in the State....and this game is in their backyard.

47 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I can't speak for Guerin, but I would suspect that, on principal, Guerin would not attempt to poach Indy-Diocese players.  As for their own diocese, LCC and Guerin are the only Catholic high schools in the Diocese of Lafayette-in-Indiana ... and that's a big diocese for two high schools.  With that said, LCC's not really in a position to contend for kids that are really outside of the Lafayette area and basically the Tippecanoe County area despite the fact that the diocese spans from the Indiana/Illinois border all the way over to the Indiana/Ohio border, down to just north of Indy and just south of South Bend and southwest of Ft. Wayne.  LCC has six parishes just in Lafayette/West Lafayette and Guerin has a few, including a couple good-sized ones, in close proximity too. 

No one actively will “poach”, but kids are free to go there from Indy just as kids are free to go to Chatard from Ritter feeders.  It’s just that you can’t actively pursue them. I recall the late Eric Anderson when he was AD at Guerin making that clear when speaking with him at a Guerin fundraiser some years ago.  So regardless whether Guerin has signed on, that’s been their policy and I have no reason to think it’s changed.

41 minutes ago, DT said:

It can happen, if and when the IHSAA determines that competitive balance has tilted back strongly in favor of the PPs and further mechanisms are required to return to stability and normalcy.  I am in the camp that feels that COVID will have a long lasting impact on high school sports in Indiana and throughout the country, with football possibly being the most at risk in terms of lost programs and declining participation.  This is no longer just an issue of performance on the field.  The pandemic has widened the competitive gap between the haves and the have nots.  The IHSAA will ignore this issue at their own peril.  

First, it won’t happen.  These schools aren’t going to start chasing every kid across Central Indiana to accommodate your bizarre idea of equity.  You can make them all 6A.  They aren’t going to change their internal rules.

 Fundamentally, though,  I’m confused....just why in God’s name do you want 5-6 more versions of Cathedral running around peering under every rock for athletes?  Why aren’t you content with the restrictions these schools have placed on themselves.

5 minutes ago, Prospect said:

Interesting. What would they have to do to no longer be part of the Archdiocese? What benefits do they gain from being part of the Archdiocese? I am not familiar with it at all, so just curious. Also interesting that Cathedral would help draft the rules and then not sign them..

The Archdiocese schools are effectively an extension of the church so breaking away is neither desirable nor possible.  I think it’s important that everyone understands that it’s great that some of the schools might be pretty good  at football but the Arccdiocese could care less....that isn’t their mission...or the schools’ mission.

5 minutes ago, fenderbender said:

Curious, does GC follow this practice?  Wondering since they are not in the Archdiocese.

I don’t know.

9 minutes ago, DT said:

For many years, we have heard the PPs say to the Publics, "just work harder, just get better."

Thats what Cathedral is saying now to Roncalli.  

Fact is, Roncalli enrollment is 150-200 students higher trhan Cathedrals.  Why isnt Roncalli playing up to its pay grade like the other PPs are doing?

Roncalli got the message and stepped on the gas this year.  They have quickly recovered, and likely will stay recovered.  RHS is the biggest PP in the state.  They can and should lead the 2.0 Multiplier Charge and slip right into 6A with relatively no headwinds.  They might not string together a run of state titles, but they will be playing at a level that is approriate given the advantages that their student body enjoys.

 

Roncalli operates under the restrictions imposed by the Archdiocese as regards reaching out to CYO student athletes.  Like the other 3 Archdiocesan schools they are not allowed to directly contact those students/families individually to come play at their school.  A HS coach can talk to a CYO team as a whole (as I understand it) but there is no individual reach out to kids or families specific to coming to play a certain sport. They certainly can’t reach out to athletes (in any way) outside of CYO.  Brebeuf has agreed to that same set of rules.

Cathedral, who initially helped draft those rules (about 10 or so years ago, now), later declined to sign onto them and does reach out to individual families/kids.  

It’s a free country, Cathedral can do what they want....but it’s NOT a free country for the Archdiocese schools (and Brebeuf).

Given that, Roncalli (and none of the Archdiocesan schools along with Brebeuf) can even vaguely hope to match Cathedral in their ability to recruit even their OWN feeder schools let alone kids outside of them throughout Central Indiana as they would need to do to compete with Cathedral. 

So what you propose is never going to happen....it can’t so long as they are part of the Archdiocese.  

Literally, an Archdiocese head coach cannot talk directly and individually to a family or kid about playing  their particular sport on the day they are signing up for classes.  

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Recruiting is no longer (if it ever was) a logical complaint that can be used as open borders basically allow every school to "recruit."  The public schools just justify it in the current era by saying, "Privates have done it for years and we are just trying to keep up."

Basketball "recruiting" is as rampant as its ever been, especially in central Indiana right now.  It has become about stockpiling as much talent as you can based on summer leagues and friendships formed in the offseason between players and coaches as well as players and other players.

The "real" recipe (folks are going to get tired of me saying this in every thread) is the fact that families that send their kids to parochial schools are most often affluent, two parent households, with college educated parents who place a high priority on education.  THAT is the difference more so than "keeping all of their talent from their feeder schools."

Privates will always have an advantage and its not due to recruiting as much as it is due to SES.

Yep, basically.  You may have some successful parochials who service financially distressed communities but this is mostly it.

58 minutes ago, DT said:

Marian has replaced St Joe as the new PP power in that area

Marian was never “bad” during that time while St. Joe was good (up through around 2015).  In fact, they beat St. Joe as often as not and made deep runs in the playoffs as well during that time.  St. Joe is arguably “bad” at this point....and have been for about 5 years.  

1 minute ago, SenatorFan said:

Is it 6 points in a two year cycle or 6 points in one year? 
 

I ask because West Washington has won back to back sectionals (2points) and back to back regionals (4 points). 

6 pts over a 2 year “cycle”.  Next year starts a new cycle.

6 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Roncalli had a historic run of 3 state championships and a runner up from ‘02 - ‘05. But the bump up in class didn’t hurt them as much as being in the same class and sectional as Cathedral. Since 2006 Cathedral eliminated Roncalli 6 times in 7 years.

Although it is expected that the IHSAA will make EVERY effort to put the Indy P/Ps in the same Sectionals, I question the wisdom of it when any one of those schools is bumped up since I am assuming that once a P/P is bumped up there is every incentive for the IHSAA to make sure they get the requisite 2 points to stay up.  Putting a bumped up Roncalli in the same Sectional as Cathedral made  it impossible to keep both programs in 5A.

Somewhat like next year when they will inevitably put Chatard and Roncalli in the same Sectional.  It might make everyone feel good to see that but it quite likely results in Chatard back in 3A in 2 years (particularly given all that I am hearing about the next 2 years at Roncalli).  That said, though, most all the 4A South Sectionals have, at the moment, at least 1 really solid State Championship contender so there probably isn’t any good place to ship Chatard off to except with Roncalli.

18 minutes ago, South Paw said:

I'm pretty sure Cathedral was playing up 2 classes for a while. Every year teams go up and down.

 

Cathedral was playing up 2 classes in 6A a few short years ago.  Currently, Columbus East is playing up 2 classes in 6A.

They (Columbus East) had the good fortune of being on the receiving end of another Center Grove beat down a couple of weeks ago (Center Grove has been passing them out equally to most everyone) and took it with aplomb and grace.

5 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Yes the days of the tough Polish and Hungarian kids are gone.  With no ICCL football this year, the cupboard will be even barer.  With open enrollment in Catholic schools, Marian seems to be the choice in football lately.

South Bend teams are more focused on the "City" Championship than Conference titles.  I don't think a South Bend school has beaten Penn since 1985.  Can't remember when they beat Mishawaka either.

 

 

It was just 9 years ago when St. Joe played in 2 State Championships in a row (2010 and 2011).  When they moved to 4A, I thought they would rival Dwenger up North.

Instead they, literally, have seemed to fall off of a cliff.  They went from state contenders to consistently sub .500.  

Even with “soft” Norte Dame kids I’m not sure that covers it.  Isn’t West Lafayette laden with a lot of Purdue kids but they perform at the highest level consistently....and they are far from “soft”.

1 minute ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I thought that was Scecina fan though now?/   

It was.