Lysander

16 minutes ago, temptation said:

Because the IHSAA stuck to their “fewer home games in the tournament” rule after Zionsville’s sectional opponent forfeited due to covid.

Ideally the IHSAA should have treated the Zionsville “forfeit win” like a “bye” game is treated in Sectionals (the time with the “bye” always travels their next game). 

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Complete speculation on my part, but I would venture to say that Sagarin is probably the least accurate I can remember in 2020 for obvious reasons.

A lot of unpredictability week in and week out in relation to team health.

At least the game result would seem to say that.  Good observation Re: COVID.  It’s added a whole new degree of unpredictability.

5 hours ago, MICFan34 said:

Evil Czech Brewery is a good one in Mishawaka and Crooked Ewe Brewery in South Bend is delicious too. Both less than 10 minutes away to Marian. 

We ate at the Evil Czech post game last year.  We probably won’t be making the trip this year but it’s almost worth it just to eat there.  Great and fun place.

Give me a few days before I feel like I can safely insert ANY comment or body part into this conversation.  Lots of stuff....kind of agree with some on both sides of this.  

Damn...guess I'm running for office......Hell, I did back in '84.

Its wide open as far as I'm concerned.  Chatard's advantage is generally scheduling a Top 20 schedule during the regular season.  They will lose some but also know how to play and win against bigger and more talented teams (see Merrillville).

At this time of year, those more talented teams have "caught up" and its a legitimate battle in every game...where Chatard used to have an advantage.

3 hours ago, Moonshiners said:

I think it’s interesting that MD finished #12 in the AP poll/#13 in the coaches poll and Webo finished #14 in the AP poll/#12 in the coaches poll. Not much love for either of these teams for some reason. I don’t usually pay very close attention to the polls so maybe this actually happens often. 

Honestly I don’t pay ANY attention to the AP (I consider it the “short bus” poll....can I say that these days post Election?) just a little more credence to Coach’s poll....just a little........very little....very, very little.

Unfortunately, SAC and SIAC are outside of any analytics until the first week of playoffs.  

That’s a problem.  

Anyone with a lizard’s brain knew both of these teams were well better than those rankings.....and are FAR from shocked to see them in the Final 4.

To be clear, I’m not declaring any team an innocent or a sinner (seems teams have both been both victim and victimizer) as regards this sort of thing.....I’m just saying it shouldn’t be permitted to happen.  

There should be a default game time of 3:00 pm or later on a Saturday playoff that has been rescheduled from Friday due to prohibitive travel/distance unless BOTH teams agree with an earlier game time.  

Easy peasy for the IHSAA to do it if folks can’t be sensible themselves.

38 minutes ago, temptation said:

Can Danville (the most successful public school head to head against Chatard recently) do the unthinkable in two weeks?

Maybe..

Back to the game.....Good GAWD is Southridge fast!

edit....another TD...

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ll take a stab and say 4-6?

Folks love to throw out ridiculous numbers...

Back to the topic at hand, do either of these publics stand a chance next week?

I think your number is maybe accurate IF you include D3 ball.  I’m not sure there are 20 players from last year even ATTENDING college, btw.

As to the topic at hand, Danville will be next week for one of them.  My sense is that both would be slight underdogs to Danville but I certainly wouldn’t put any of my own money on it.

2 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Heh...didn’t have HB in mind when I wrote that.  But I should have.

Introducing our new IHSAA Handicapper General:  Diana Moon Glampers.

 

......or DT.

edit....I always get a monster kick when I’m tracking something usually pretty obscure along with some others here...adds to the fun.

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

Is that you Mr. Vonnegut? 😀

I was sooooo there with you on that....Harrison Bergeron.

5 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

i know the rule on open enrollment,  i might have not made it clear,  what i was trying to say.   it is no cost to go from P/S to P/S but to go to P/P you have to phony up some cash

financial aid i see

But doesn’t the ability to move freely (financially and otherwise) from one public to another give publics even more added advantage v. paying (however one does it) to go to a private or parochial school?  My guess is that schools like Carmel, as well as Center Grove, have benefited from that.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding everybody involved in this conversation....

25 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

Watched the game last night.  Roncalli looks really, really, really good.  Just dominant on the line of scrimmage.  They have not been good the last couple years.  New coach make that much of a difference?  New Pal JV took a mash unit to Roncalli the last week of the regular season, and the Rebels (can I still say that?) have some nice young pieces as well.  Impressive turnaround.

Addition by subtraction?

I’ve been on their bandwagon since Chatard played them Game 2.

1 minute ago, DT said:

The Pandemic has exacerbated the CB issue and exposed its many flaws

“CB” issues?  

What’s yer’ “handle”?

47 minutes ago, MDAlum82 said:

In my opinion, this is an element of "gamesmanship" the game would be better off without.  As long as it is allowed, or at east not prohibited, coaches will use it to their advantage.  However, until someone at the IHSA grows pair and takes a stand on issues like this, they will not go away. 

Putting Regionals & Semi-State games at neutral sites is the next big step the IHSAA needs to take to improve the tournament.  This is where the travel times are the greatest and thus, the safety of the players travelling is of most concern - or should be.  Every team "earns" their way to these games and can thus lay claim to the right to host.  Neutral sites at reasonable start times for both team would be an improvement.

 

Totally agree.  When Chatard had to travel to GS some years back they didn’t make it a Noon game.  When both GS and Memorial came up to Indy on Saturdays these were late games (sorry about the crappy weather, though, GS).

Teams work too hard to get there for home teams to pull this crap (and I DO think it’s unsportsmanlike.....not that I have any business being the judge).  

It’s not as if the home team “earned” being home....they’re only at home because of a ping pong ball.

13 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

Was it 25?

I’m just looking for a truthful answer.

3 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

MV was terribly overrated.  They hadn't played a really good team all year.  Whiteland beat Mooresville.  Zionsville, Dwenger, Valpo all very good.

Roncalli may be 5A good though, they looked HUGE and dominant last night.  Should be a great game vs Mooresville next week.

I have very much thought this all year....all due respect to Coach K.

5 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

I think all privates should probably play up one class, due to the advantages over public that they have. I did not think tournament success should apply to public schools.  But now that it has happened, it has worked out ok.  Columbus East and New Palestine have shown the ability to compete when moved up.  I do not think a public school should be allowed to bump up two classes though.

The Tournament Success Factor was aimed at Cathedral.  For the most part, it has worked, bumping them above their irrelevant 4A enrollment.  Just take a look at the number of kids on Cathedral's roster compared to a 4A school, and it will tell you they don't belong there.  The fact they were willing to move back down to 4A in 2019 is laughable.

As for Spegal, the Dragons would never have won back to back 5A's without him.  But would have won back to back 4As (where they belong).

Some years back, Coach Gallogly (good guy) and I spent some time debating after the initiation of the Success Factor.  I, frankly, took the position that we should just bump every P/P up a class and be done with it because we would end up having the same arguments in 5-6 years anyway.

With all that, I kind of think the Success Factor is working.  I actually enjoy seeing what the Success Factor has generated in the way of matchups (admittedly, my enjoyment as a fan is irrelevant).  Still, I don’t think it’s fair to the classes that follow the successful classes ahead of them.  Insofar as publics go, Columbus East and New Pal were able to sustain that success through several multiple student classes but eventually it will catch up with you and one group of kids is going to find themselves well beyond their ability to enjoy playoff success.....and that bothers me more than a little.

To an extent, I’m not sure this discussion is even happening now if Cathedral was not having a possibly historically great team this year...maybe next year as well.  

Nonetheless, I’ve been pretty open about saying I’ve wanted Chatard to play in 4A for years....at least before it was hollowed out.  For now, though, I am thinking the Success Factor comes closest to fairness...particularly with some of the point adjustments to staying up. But I’m not so sure the automatic class bump is fair for everyone else....I sure as heck don’t think a 2.0  multiplier is.

8 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Roncalli is not Cathedral. They are tied to parishes...just like Chatard, Ritter, Guerin, etc. 

Thanks for raising that.  I was tempted to earlier.

It’s painting with too broad a brush to think all the P/Ps are alike or are governed by even vaguely similar rules.   Even then, I can’t speak to understanding the nuances of how P/Ps operate in cities outside of the Indy Archdiocese.....those differences matter, though.

4 minutes ago, tango said:

On radio this morning Coach Goebel was discussing start time and said if Saturday game Webo said noon.  It sounded Then like Coach was leaning Friday, and that's obviously when it will be.  Good luck to the Wildcats. 

If true and home teams are allowed to pull this crap regarding naming these early start times for Saturday games, then the IHSAA needs to intervene.  

It’s total BS.  None of these long distance Saturday games should ever be before 3:00 unless both schools agree.  

It should already be enough that the home team is...well.....at home.

Makes me think this whole neutral site thing for Regionals and Semistates might be the way to go.

31 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

Yeah, you are right, Patriot74 is terribly wrong.  It is just amazing happenstance that Chatard had 20 kids going on to play college football last year, I mean normally they probably only have 10 or 15.  It's just a good (but casual) youth program.

and to keep this on point...GO RAIDERS!

 

20?  

You make Chatard sound like Merrillville.

48 minutes ago, tango said:

Harrell has this as 56-0.  I've never seen a semi-state game predicted to be so lopsided.  Worst part of the drive this time of year is the deer all along I-69.  

Me either.  I am a bit shocked at that.  Even though I might personally think it quite possible, I don’t think any analytics directly back it and it just seems inconsistent with Harrell’s usually somewhat conservative estimates.

“Technically” 3 Circle City Conference Schools are playing in Semistate: Covenant Christian (1A); Chatard (3A) and Roncalli 4A).  

Heritage Christian (2A) fell a little short vs the WeBo juggernaut.

Congrats to them.

14 minutes ago, clhs2man said:

Was really concerned when I found out Friday that we would be playing without our starting running back. Perhaps playing so many games short handed during the season actually helped us last night and despite being handicapped Concordia acquitted themselves very well. Chatard really won the field position part of the game forcing the Cadets to start deep in their own territory. Pinning Concordia back on their own 1 yard line late was perhaps the winning play of the game. Will be interesting to see if any other 3A team plays Chatard that close the rest of the tournament. 

I kept looking for him all night.  I’m not big on “what if’s” but I’m not sure Chatard would have pulled it off had he been on the field given as well as the Cadets played last night.  Outside of the loss to Cathedral, last night’s game was clearly the toughest game that Chatard has played so far this year.

It’s hard to give the Cadets enough credit.  That game could have fallen either way.  As was said earlier, my sense is that Chatard’s depth and that late 4th Quarter punt to the 1 yard line sealed it.

BTW - Chatard is now officially in 4A.

28 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I still see no logic to a contention that this heralds some sort of a sea change in Indiana high school football that is “long term” in nature. We haven’t even completed a single season following the pandemic. That must be a really special crystal ball you’ve got there. Settle down. If things have changed to the point where some kind of adjustment is necessary, we can do that. But this sort of knee jerk reaction to information that is incomplete, at best, is just alarmist

I think we both know that DT believes the things he writes just as often as crocodiles shed actual heartfelt tears.

The idea that we can project any long term effect on Indiana HS football/sports based on the pandemic is more than ludicrous.  We can’t possibly know if or what it might be.....even if it will be any more than a temporary effect at all.

The further supposition that the 2.0 multiplier is somehow a “cure” for this “kind of/maybe/potentially” possible pandemic based long term effect on HS sports is insane.  It is, quite literally, snake oil.

The worst part of his whole premise is that it’s insincere.